U.S. Women [#7]: Make Me a Believer!

Debbie S said:
IIRC, Sasha stumbled out of her first two jumping passes. I think one waa a 3-3...3Lz-3T?...and i thought the other was a 3-3 but if she had a 3-3 sequence in the 2nd half, maybe it was a solo triple....flip?
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Cohen stopped attempting the 3Lz+3T (and all true triple-triple combinations) after the 2002-03 season, though she did practice 3F+3T in her comeback 2009-10 season and was doing it at Nationals.

She executed her planned content but with errors:
3Lz (fall) - was supposed to be 3Lz+2T+2Lo
3F (step out, near-fall)
3Lo
3F+2T (bonus)
3T+3S+SEQ (3S two-footed; bonus; valued at 80%; rules at the time allowed for several small jumps and jumped turns in between, as long as the skater maintained the momentum)
2A (bonus)
3S (bonus)

I'm not sure if Arakawa saw the skate, but I'm sure she heard the score. By the time she skated, she probably knew that she was near-certain of a medal with a clean program even without a triple-triple. The 3Lz+2Lo was certainly intentional (she would have done 3Lz+3T otherwise), and the 3S+2T looked intentional, too.
 
Yes, the only unintentional jump Shizuka appeared to have was the doubled solo loop that was supposed to be a triple.

Sasha was the only at the Games to get credit for rotating 7 triples, which is how she stayed ahead of Irina. And from memory, only two skaters got credit for rotating 7 triples four years later in Vancouver.
 
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Arakawa was reportedly jumping 3/3’s in practice. Whether or not this influenced anyone else’s program choices, the other women would have known this.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Arakawa was reportedly jumping 3/3’s in practice. Whether or not this influenced anyone else’s program choices, the other women would have known this.
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Was just about to say this. Arakawa won 2006 Olys partially on practice ice. She was landing 3/3, even 3/3/3 in practice left and and right while Cohen and Slutskaya were struggling. The intimidation factor is real. (my brain also wants to tell me that Cohen skipped the practice the morning of the free skate?)

Morozov said after that he told Arakawa she didn’t need the 3/3 in the Free Skate to win. IIRC, the plan was to do a 6 triple program, and the 2loop was a mistake.
 
thvu said:
Was just about to say this. Arakawa won 2006 Olys partially on practice ice. She was landing 3/3, even 3/3/3 in practice left and and right while Cohen and Slutskaya were struggling. The intimidation factor is real. (my brain also wants to tell me that Cohen skipped the practice the morning of the free skate?)

Morozov said after that he told Arakawa she didn’t need the 3/3 in the Free Skate to win. IIRC, the plan was to do a 6 triple program, and the 2loop was a mistake.
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I’ve talked about it in previous threads here, but Arakawa was not AT ALL a serious contender for the Olympics until that early practice session and the 3+3+3 clip that circulated from it. She had an otherwise mediocre season to that point, dropped way down in the standings at the previous Worlds, and no one was really talking about her. Slutskaya, Cohen, Kostner, Kwan being the unknown until the early practice— all of them yes. Plus of course Asada not being old enough.
 
tony said:
I’ve talked about it in previous threads here, but Arakawa was not AT ALL a serious contender for the Olympics until that early practice session and the 3+3+3 clip that circulated from it. She had an otherwise mediocre season to that point, dropped way down in the standings at the previous Worlds, and no one was really talking about her. Slutskaya, Cohen, Kostner, Kwan being the unknown until the early practice— all of them yes. Plus of course Asada not being old enough.
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It’s amazing how similar arakawa Olympic performance is to her two gp performances



Difference is at Olympics everyone had the worst skate of the season while arakawa did exactly the same. Even doubling a jump
 
Shizuka's GP and Olympic Free Skates:

China

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be youtu.be


France

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be youtu.be

Olympics

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be youtu.be

Did she qualify for the GP Final and withdraw?
 
thvu said:
Was just about to say this. Arakawa won 2006 Olys partially on practice ice. She was landing 3/3, even 3/3/3 in practice left and and right while Cohen and Slutskaya were struggling. The intimidation factor is real. (my brain also wants to tell me that Cohen skipped the practice the morning of the free skate?)

Morozov said after that he told Arakawa she didn’t need the 3/3 in the Free Skate to win. IIRC, the plan was to do a 6 triple program, and the 2loop was a mistake.
Click to expand...

See what I started

Tee-hee
 
thvu said:
Was just about to say this. Arakawa won 2006 Olys partially on practice ice. She was landing 3/3, even 3/3/3 in practice left and and right while Cohen and Slutskaya were struggling. The intimidation factor is real. (my brain also wants to tell me that Cohen skipped the practice the morning of the free skate?)
Click to expand...
Cohen re-aggravated a groin injury and indeed skipped a practice ahead of the free skate to get some treatments/PT.
 
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL) said:
See what I started

Tee-hee
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Which reminds me:

I don't see the parallel between Liu and Arakawa, but I do see one between Glenn and Cohen.

Glenn, like Cohen, has difficulty keeping her concentration all the way through her Free Skating. Glenn is getting better, but she has a long way to go and not much time to get there.
 
PRlady said:
I hope they’re saving the TBD spot for her if she does well. With the top six women maxxed out on GPs, she’s the logical choice if healthy. Lindsey’s gone, Starr has hit her ceiling and has gotten the spot before, and juniors like Sherry Zhang (who I like!) have some maturing to do.
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I have to admit that I loved Lindsay's skating the most of all US ladies. She had a spark of distinct style of skating- elegant, introverted, silently eloquent... imho she has/had it all to be the very best. The only missing part was what Alisa has in abondance- inner freedom. IMO without inner freedom ( in competitions) even the very best technique fails.
 
tony said:
I’ve talked about it in previous threads here, but Arakawa was not AT ALL a serious contender for the Olympics until that early practice session and the 3+3+3 clip that circulated from it. She had an otherwise mediocre season to that point, dropped way down in the standings at the previous Worlds, and no one was really talking about her. Slutskaya, Cohen, Kostner, Kwan being the unknown until the early practice— all of them yes. Plus of course Asada not being old enough.
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Yup. And let's be real -- Arakawa benefitted from Tarasova politik at 2004 Worlds. That 3Lz+3T combo in the short program was worse quality than a Sarah Hughes combo, and yet she still pulled a plethora of 5.8s. I remember liking that "voidy swan" program back in the day, but it has not aged well. I still maintain Kwan, Ando, and Sebestyen all deserved a higher short program placement.

Back to 06: it's too bad Cohen couldn't pull out the win, but Arakawa was a clear winner, and I'm relieved we didn't have to endure another cheated 3-3. And thank heavens Slutskaya didn't win with that atrocious flamenco program. Quite literally her worst ever material -- even that bizarre Phantom on Ice program from 97 that Peggy despised was better.
 
jägerbomb said:
Yup. And let's be real -- Arakawa benefitted from Tarasova politik at 2004 Worlds. That 3Lz+3T combo in the short program was worse quality than a Sarah Hughes combo, and yet she still pulled a plethora of 5.8s. I remember liking that "voidy swan" program back in the day, but it has not aged well. I still maintain Kwan, Ando, and Sebestyen all deserved a higher short program placement.

Back to 06: it's too bad Cohen couldn't pull out the win, but Arakawa was a clear winner, and I'm relieved we didn't have to endure another cheated 3-3. And thank heavens Slutskaya didn't win with that atrocious flamenco program. Quite literally her worst ever material -- even that bizarre Phantom on Ice program from 97 that Peggy despised was better.
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A lot to unpack here and I am in just the mood to do it. Lol.

First of all, Arakawa is a goddess and the fourth best figure skater of all time. I called the program techno swan and not voidy swan and that’s one of my favorite short programs and the costume with all of the straps and buckles is one of my favorites.

Irinas Phantom on ice program is a masterpiece just for the way dick button narrates it and can’t stand the pounding of the music or the flailing of the arms. I used to YouTube that phantom on ice program for many years because I really enjoy it.

Ahhhh good times!
 
I remember an Oly clip of Arakawa back stage watching Slutskaya. It was all done and people came crashing in to tell her she won. She sat there stunned; not sure she believed it. Can`t find it anymore.

I love re-living all these past Olympics. Since `98 the ladies in particular more often than not have had a surprise ending.
 
jägerbomb said:
Yup. And let's be real -- Arakawa benefitted from Tarasova politik at 2004 Worlds. That 3Lz+3T combo in the short program was worse quality than a Sarah Hughes combo, and yet she still pulled a plethora of 5.8s. I remember liking that "voidy swan" program back in the day, but it has not aged well. I still maintain Kwan, Ando, and Sebestyen all deserved a higher short program placement.
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I'm having flashbacks to the "black mark of Tarasova" :scream: :rofl:.

I agree with you re: Arakawa's 2004 SP combo. I think Cohen should have won 2004 Worlds on combined SP+LP. Arakawa should have been out of the running after the short program between the cheated combo and the egregious lip, which was way worse than any flutz Cohen ever did.

I'm not a Kwan fan, but she was robbed in that short program. Not as robbed as she was in the 2005 short program, but still. I was shocked when the marks came up. And I saw it live.

jägerbomb said:
And thank heavens Slutskaya didn't win with that atrocious flamenco program. Quite literally her worst ever material -- even that bizarre Phantom on Ice program from 97 that Peggy despised was better.
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I don't know what Slutskaya's team was thinking in 2005-06. The programs were awful, and her jumps were really off -- in particularly her to-that-point "can't-miss triple loop." There was foreshadowing of her Olympic disaster all season, even as she was racking up the wins.

I liked the angularity of her Phantom on Ice program, and I thought there was a case to put it first in the free at 1997 Worlds. If she had done the final salchow, I'd have said definitely first. The choreography of that program + her folk program in 1998 are underrated. People focused too much on her poor posture and not what was going on. Her programs got emptier after that (as did everyone's).
 
I would have had Arakawa winning the two FS’s but 4th in the SP, winning overall. I would have had Kostner and Sebestyen 1/2 in the SP, with Cohen and Kwan 5/6. Kwan’s skating was perfunctory and one of her spins traveled to Antarctica and back. Sebestyen was by no means perfect in the FS, but her jumps were big and powerful, her spins were clear, and I would have had her in 3rd overall. I believe Kwan got a mercy bronze after the casino ad guy jumped on the ice before her skate. Cohen would have been silver for me only as a result of much more mixed ordinals than happened. Her lines were exquisite, but her jumps were tiny at best, and her “fly” into spins was a drop. She looked like a deer in the headlights in the FS.
 
By 2004 Worlds, Cohen’s LP was such a hackjob. 6 jumping passes in a row, very little transitions and choreo. Everything that made Tarasova’s choreo genius and so fitting to Cohen was stripped out. That program was emptier than Kwan’s LP and done with worse skating skills.

Arakawa’s win still stands with me. I might think differently if Cohen skated to Tat’s Swan Lake instead of Wagner’s. :shuffle:
 
Since we’ve completely lost the plot, Suguri was robbed massively at 2004 Worlds. QR aside which we never even saw, the SP and LP were so good. Seeing how she won GPF, the judges really kept her low after said QR.

Rochette also should’ve been higher in the free skate. 6 big clean triples.

Kostner’s free skate score is such a perfect way to close 6.0 and all the flaws. Massive mistakes, judges boxed themselves in since she skated last, and yet 5.8 and 5.9 show up technically. She was fighting for her life in the last 45 seconds or so on top of her big falls. They were probably so boxed in that it was give her either 5th or 6th or drop her to like 13th or something.
 
Cohen didn't have a lot of speed or glide. Suguri did her thing where she sped into her first jump or two and had a very fast spin to end, but she slowed down and was labored through much of the middle. For me she was more of a telegenic skater: I loved her until I saw her live.

I was just glad that Rochette made it into the Top 10; Phaneuf was able to go to Moscow in 2005, too, and they earned two spots for Torino, even though Rochette dropped to 11th. I was sad Poykio didn't, because her blades were like butter and only one Finnish woman could be at Worlds until she made Top 10 in Moscow, and then we saw her and Korpi in Torino.

I didn't know that Kwan was injured, but there was clearly light missing in 2004 and 2005.
 
I thought Suguri deserved to win 2002 worlds (and I didn't really care for her either).

As for Kwan, I think even 'without light', I enjoyed the good qualities of her skating at those two worlds.
 
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