U.S. Women [#1]: The Contenders Unmask Themselves

[Spun Silver]

Also, Alysa will be 17 after the Olympics. Surely the decision is hers, not her father's.

 

[carriecmu0503]

Also, Alysa will be 17 after the Olympics. Surely the decision is hers, not her father's.

Not if she can’t afford the training expenses on her own it won’t be. Funding from USFS is barely a drop in the bucket for total expenses, and who knows if she will have endorsements that will amount to paying the astronomical bills to train at the elite level.

 

[boopboop]

I wonder what she will do after the Olympics. I can't help hoping she will be around for more than one season as this newly matured, full-package skater.

Alysa has stated in an interview that she hopes to skate until the 2026 Milan Olympics. I believe she said this in a post JGPF/Junior Worlds interview, so obviously she may have changed her mind since, but I'm more inclined to believe the words that came out of Alysa's own mouth than Dave Lease's "sources"

 

[Vagabond]

Haven't we established long ago that Dave Lease has ZERO insider information when it comes to the Liu camp?

One more reason to Alysa Liu!

 

[feraina]

Well she did say in the interview that she plans to apply to colleges this fall, which means she can start college as early as next year. But of course she can also delay it by a year which is generally allowed by colleges. If she gets into somewhere like Harvard, she can also just do one semester and then postpone it as long as she wants before picking it up again. She’s so young and ahead in academics, that even if she did another full Olympic cycle, she would only be slightly older than her classmates.

 

[VGThuy]

Not if she can’t afford the training expenses on her own it won’t be. Funding from USFS is barely a drop in the bucket for total expenses, and who knows if she will have endorsements that will amount to paying the astronomical bills to train at the elite level.

But aren’t all skaters in the same boat? I know participants in elite level skating tend to come from families who can afford it (or at least the average skater probably comes from a family with a household income higher than the average), but we know not all skaters come from money. We have a great number of skaters well into adulthood and surely some of them are paying their own way. I’m seriously asking how do most skaters fund their training, not just the top medalists at Nationals.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Haven't we established long ago that Dave Lease has ZERO insider information when it comes to the Liu camp?

I can't help but wonder if this is why Lease always seems so negative about Alysa, or at least her skating. It seems almost personal at times. Which makes me further wonder if Mr. Liu refused an interview request with Alysa at some point from TSL?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I recall Dave Lease saying that Arthur Liu plans for Alysa to retire after this season.

Really? retire??? Its only her first year as a senior!!!! awwwww

 

[overedge]

Also, Alysa will be 17 after the Olympics. Surely the decision is hers, not her father's.

One would hope so, but her dad has been very intensely involved in her career so far.

 

[VGThuy]

Sometimes I wonder if people misconstrue Asian parent involvement with stage parent involvement. Seriously. It’s always the parents of Asian-American skaters who get this reputation among the forum. The Shibs got that reputation too and some even made it sound like mental abuse but they ended up competing for a long time and seem happy, healthy, and productive…I mean as much as anyone else can be.

 

[Willin]

@overedge As I've said 1000 times before and will say 1000 times again, I don't know where you and Dave Lease are getting your information, but this is very much not true. Even reading interviews with him (and her) you can tell it's not true at all.

I've said this elsewhere, but if he truly was a crazy over involved stereotype of a tiger parent, why did he not coach hop to one of the many more well established coaches in the Bay Area or even just Oakland prior to USFS stepping in? Why does he not club hop to more prestigious clubs with better funding? Why does he let her post silly teenage stuff on her instagram that sponsors will see and likely not like? Why does he let her spend some of her practice time playing with friends? Why is he not at the boards during her every practice session? Why are her siblings not similarly accomplished or forced into similar hobbies?

@VGThuy This has always been my theory about peoples' assumptions about Alysa's Dad. While there certainly are parents that fit the stereotype (Ting Cui and Vincent Zhou's) and that certainly provides fuel to the fire, it doesn't mean the stereotype is true - in fact, in many ways Alysa's family goes against many stereotypes.

 

[carriecmu0503]

But aren’t all skaters in the same boat? I know participants in elite level skating tend to come from families who can afford it (or at least the average skater probably comes from a family with a household income higher than the average), but we know not all skaters come from money. We have a great number of skaters well into adulthood and surely some of them are paying their own way. I’m seriously asking how do most skaters fund their training, not just the top medalists at Nationals.

It is one thing for an adult to work more than full time to pay their way. How do you expect a 17 year old, a minor, to do that? Alyss is actually only going to be about 16.5 after the Olympics. Not realistic to think she would be able to work more than full time to pay her own way if her father no longer wants to fund her elite athletic expenses.

 

[Willin]

@carriecmu0503 I think she has a decent chance of getting good sponsorships. Although her insta isn't really sponsor friendly and doesn't have many sponsored posts right now, she does get her skates and blades for free through sponsorships and landed a toyota sponsorship. If she does well at the Olympics, which ladies figure skaters often become one of the faces of in the US, she'll probably get at least a couple more.

 

[VGThuy]

It is one thing for an adult to work more than full time to pay their way. How do you expect a 17 year old, a minor, to do that? Alyss is actually only going to be about 16.5 after the Olympics. Not realistic to think she would be able to work more than full time to pay her own way if her father no longer wants to fund her elite athletic expenses.

And you are sure her father will cut off all financial support for her skating the minute after her free skate at the Olympics (if she qualifies) how? I think a more realistic way of looking at is that she won’t be completely cut off, and as a multi-time national champion and Olympian (if) oozing potential, she won’t be completely without help and support until she can afford to pay some of her own way. I don’t know where this extreme hypothetical that she’ll be left on her own and will have no options if her father stops paying her skating bills despite her wanting to continue is coming from. It’s not as if she’s a nobody.

 

[Holy Headband]

I can save the thread from another pointless debate like the one about the dictionary definition of 'ultra-c' and tell you guys right now, before you get carried away speculating about her father's financial priorities, that Alysa Liu will not retire after the Olympics.

I don't have any insider sources, but I am relying on something even more valuable here: common sense.

 

[sheetz]

I don't see finances being an issue for Alysa as long as she continues to perform. Being #1 lady in the US has its perks, even if it doesn't get her onto the World/Olympic podium. She's the 2nd most marketable American skater behind Nathan, and if he leaves after the Olympics she moves to the top. That means more endorsement and show opportunities for her.

 

[Alexa]

I vaguely remembered from 2 years ago Alysa mentioned something like Berkley is some school she is interested in. Both Stanford and Berkeley shouldn’t be a problem with her training schedule.

Alysa already has Toyota as sponsor, if iirc, she was in talks with Nike. She would have more sponsors if she is doing good in Beijing, and I could see more ice show opportunities coming her way.

Expense wise, she is in much better position than lot other skaters in US.

 

[missing]

If Alysa makes the Olympic team and if there are fans in the stands, I think there will be a huge crowd response to her.

Not only is she of Chinese descent, but she is an immensely outgoing skater. There aren't that many women competitors like that nowadays.

 

[overedge]

@VGThuy I know the difference between Asian parent involvement and skating parent involvement, because I've seen skating parent involvement from Asian and non-Asian parents. IMO from what I've read about Alysa's dad, he's a skating parent.

@Willin please don't mention me in the same sentence as Dave Lease. Unlike Dave I will say I have no inside sources on Team Alysa. But I don't get the sense from what I have read that he sits back and lets Alysa decide what to do. Skating parents don't have to be hanging over the boards shrieking at every single training session to be skating parents.

 

[VGThuy]

@VGThuy I know the difference between Asian parent involvement and skating parent involvement, because I've seen skating parent involvement from Asian and non-Asian parents. IMO from what I've read about Alysa's dad, he's a skating parent.

I believe you, but it just seems like overall, fans (not you specifically) only harp on the skating parents of the Asian-American skaters and make a big deal about it while the non-Asian ones are hardly ever mentioned. And the idea of a parent just just sitting back and letting a child do what they want/decide what to do sounds stereotypically “un-Asian”. I just wonder if “normal” Asian-American parental behavior isn’t becoming interpreted as something a bit more sinister when their strictness isn’t actually as bad as some serious AP McDonough-level (Asian-am example I do not question at all!) skating parent horror. Although, I’ve read a while back that McDonough and her mother worked through their issues and have a nice relationship now.

Tiffany Chin, the original Asian-Am with a “dragon” mother example is also an example I don’t doubt especially as she let the world see through fluff pieces and interfered with medical treatment. Now I feel like I’m sounding like Chin when she said people misunderstood her mother and how her mother wasn’t as bad as she seemed on TV. Maybe her mother truly believed in that Eastern medicine stuff and didn’t realize how negatively it would affect her skating…although I wonder if her career wouldn’t have ended up the way it did even without Chin’s mom’s interference considering the severity of her injury and the whole Eastern medicine ruining her skating thing was maybe blown way out of proportion by those who don’t really understand how it works, played into its “exoticness” and “foreignness” and thus made it seem “primitive” in comparison to advanced Western medicine. I do question the way that was portrayed to an extent. Not whether if it was in ineffective, but rather I don’t think it would have negatively affected/altered the body the way some were saying it affected Tiffany’s.

 

[PRlady]

I believe you, but it just seems like overall, fans (not you specifically) only harp on the skating parents of the Asian-American skaters and make a big deal about it while the non-Asian ones are hardly ever mentioned. And the idea of a parent just just sitting back and letting a child do what they want/decide what to do sounds stereotypically “un-Asian”. I just wonder if “normal” Asian-American parental behavior isn’t becoming interpreted as something a bit more sinister when their strictness isn’t actually as bad as some serious AP McDonough-level (Asian-am example I do not question at all!) skating parent horror. Although, I’ve read a while back that McDonough and her mother worked through their issues and have a nice relationship now. Tiffany Chin, the original Asian-Am with a “dragon” mother example is also an example I don’t doubt especially as she let the world see through fluff pieces and interfered with medical treatment. Now I feel like im sounding like Chin when she said people misunderstood her mother and how her mother wasn’t as bad as she seemed on TV. Maybe her mother truly believed in that Eastern medicine stuff and didn’t realize how negatively it would affect her skating…although I wonder if her career wouldn’t have ended up the way it did even without Chin’s mom’s interference considering the severity of her injury and the whole Eastern medicine ruining her skating thing was blown way out of proportion by those who don’t really understand how it works and how doesn’t affect the body the way people thought it affected Tiffany’s.

You might be right. When I think of the skating parents I’ve heard about as tiger types, it’s been Anne Patrice McDonough’s mom and Danny Kwan and Ting Cui’s parents etc. I can’t think offhand of a skating parent from hell who isn’t Asian but not being in the skating world I don’t know much.

Although apparently the Baldwins’ dad was a piece of work.

 

[her grace]

You might be right. When I think of the skating parents I’ve heard about as tiger types, it’s been Anne Patrice McDonough’s mom and Danny Kwan and Ting Cui’s parents etc. I can’t think offhand of a skating parent from hell who isn’t Asian but not being in the skating world I don’t know much. Although apparently the Baldwins’ dad was a piece of work.

The earliest complaint of skater mom that I can recall was about Peggy Fleming's mom.

 

[clairecloutier]

Getting back to the skating, Alysa did great today. In some ways I almost prefer watching her on TV to live, because you get to see more of her smiles.

I am not worried about Alysa. If she makes it to the Olympics, I could foresee her becoming an instastar with the American public. As @missing said, there are very, very few ladies skaters these days who have the same kind of personality on ice that Alysa has. When people see her, I think they're going to love her.

 

[Debbie S]

You might be right. When I think of the skating parents I’ve heard about as tiger types, it’s been Anne Patrice McDonough’s mom and Danny Kwan and Ting Cui’s parents etc. I can’t think offhand of a skating parent from hell who isn’t Asian but not being in the skating world I don’t know much.

Although apparently the Baldwins’ dad was a piece of work.

As was Tara Lipinski's mom.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Although apparently the Baldwins’ dad was a piece of work.

I have heard that as well.

Wasn't Michael Weiss' father another one too?

 

[Willin]

@overedge So basically you have 0 reason to believe what you do, and yet you don't believe people like me and @sjs5572 who have run into Alysa? Okay, then...

Also, it may be hard to believe, but some kids just want it that bad with no parental involvement. That's Alysa to a T. She didn't learn quads for her dad - she did it because, as she's said, she wants to win. (Although, being at the rink it felt like it was less about winning and more a desire to keep learning new jumps). And while I've heard local coaches s*** talk her, it was always about her wanting things too much and getting bad technique - nothing about her dad (which bay coaches usually s*** talk parents or other coaches more than skaters if the adult is seen as crazy). It's not like a top athlete in any sport needs a crazy parent to be successful. For instance, would you say her competitors learning quads/3A like Lindsay Thorngren, Isabeau Levito, Audrey Shin, and Mia Kalin have crazy parents?

 

[giselle23]

And you are sure her father will cut off all financial support for her skating the minute after her free skate at the Olympics (if she qualifies) how? I think a more realistic way of looking at is that she won’t be completely cut off, and as a multi-time national champion and Olympian (if) oozing potential, she won’t be completely without help and support until she can afford to pay some of her own way. I don’t know where this extreme hypothetical that she’ll be left on her own and will have no options if her father stops paying her skating bills despite her wanting to continue is coming from. It’s not as if she’s a nobody.

Do people really think her father is totally funding her skating? Does he have that kind of money? To pay her enormous expenses plus support his family? More likely, she already has some private money sponsors, just like Michelle Kwan and others have had. I’m sure there will be a way for Alysa to continue after the Olympics if she wants to.

 

[giselle23]

Delete

 

[Vagabond]

I believe you, but it just seems like overall, fans (not you specifically) only harp on the skating parents of the Asian-American skaters and make a big deal about it while the non-Asian ones are hardly ever mentioned.

Over the years I've either lurked or been a registered user here, I have seen a lot of discussion about the mothers of Surya Bonaly, Tonya Harding, Tara Lipinski, Brian Joubert, Gabriele Seyfert, Sasha Cohen, David Mitchell, Galit Chait, and Nicole Bobek and the fathers of Jill Trenary and Michael Weiss.

Carol Heiss' mother and both of Sonja Henie's parents were right up there too.

 

[overedge]

@overedge So basically you have 0 reason to believe what you do, and yet you don't believe people like me and @sjs5572 who have run into Alysa? Okay, then...

Also, it may be hard to believe, but some kids just want it that bad with no parental involvement. That's Alysa to a T. She didn't learn quads for her dad - she did it because, as she's said, she wants to win. (Although, being at the rink it felt like it was less about winning and more a desire to keep learning new jumps). And while I've heard local coaches s*** talk her, it was always about her wanting things too much and getting bad technique - nothing about her dad (which bay coaches usually s*** talk parents or other coaches more than skaters if the adult is seen as crazy). It's not like a top athlete in any sport needs a crazy parent to be successful. For instance, would you say her competitors learning quads/3A like Lindsay Thorngren, Isabeau Levito, Audrey Shin, and Mia Kalin have crazy parents?

I don't have zero information. I read articles and posts about her, her family, and her career. I'm not disbelieving what you say, either, but when kids want to succeed that badly and are that driven, often it's because they've learned that behaviour from their parents. As I said, parents don't have to be hanging over the boards at every single session, or yelling at the coach every single chance they get, to be overinvolved skating parents.