U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

[Firedancer]

Adam's pre-Olympics teleconference comments (from Jackie Wong's twitter):

Training for the Olympics is kind of surreal and completely crazy. I’m treating it like a normal competition ... but I’m trying to push myself [in practice] a little more because it’s the Olympics! I can’t wait.

I'm spending a few days at our off-site training center to acclimate and prepare. It's an amazing opportunity for me to show the world what I'm made of ... the kind of person I am, and my story ... to share myself with everyone, and I want to do it to the best of my ability.

I've been thinking a lot about the strategy I will go for at the Olympics. I want to look back and think that I skated my best - everything was clean and great. I'm still working on 4Lz. As we get closer to the competition, we will see how I get the best number of points.

I hope I'll be asked to skate in the Team Event. I think I would be a very helpful asset to the team because of my experience. I know I put my foot in my mouth before I went to Nationals, so I'm going on a humble tour right now about my confidence.

I have 3 things I'm very excited about ... 1) to go through team processing to get my team uniform, 2) to walk in the Opening Ceremony, and 3) taking my guards off and stepping onto Olympic ice for the very first time. Seeing the rings on the ice is a moment I've been dreaming of

I'm very lucky to be skating w my competitors who are also heading to the Olympics. In particularly, I'm lucky to be skating with Nathan. I've really seen the hard work that he puts in and it motivates me everyday to do the same. Training w Nathan has been my own secret weapon.

Whenever my career is said & done, I'd like to be remembered as someone who pushed the envelope & skated to things to challenged people's beliefs of what can be competitive and what is an artistic program.

I feel like I've left my legacy because of all the people skating to tight mesh shirts. I want to be seen as an athlete who has opened the door for other athletes ... for them to know that they can be authentic to themselves, whatever that may be.

 

[vesperholly]

I feel like I've left my legacy because of all the people skating to tight mesh shirts.

Love him

 

[Bellanca]

The road traveled with Grant Hochstein has been a pleasure for any fan of the sport. If he decides to call it a day, I will most certainly miss him, but I'm so happy for Grant and the lovely Caroline Zhang. Their students are especially fortunate to have such qualified mentors and caring coaches. On that note, I wish Grant and Caroline a lifetime of success, happiness and joy.

 

[Marco]

Finally got around to watching the US men at the 4CCs. It's like 2016 Worlds when all 3 men just nailed it and made everyone stand in ovation. Incidentally Grant and Max were at both 2016 Worlds and 2018 4CCs.

Grant skated gloriously. Les Mis just worked so well for him and I am glad he got to finish his career on a high note. What happened to the sal?

Max's jumps were sharp. It's like he was finally able to focus on nailing the jumps when he no longer had to care about PCS. The program here was absolutely empty but he sold it well. When was the last time he did a flip?

Jason was perfection but honestly I was tired of the same old same old long program genre from him. Riverdance was so exciting but he never really stepped out of his comfort zone for the long program again.

 

[misskarne]

I would assume Ross did not give up his spot as second alternate. Just because he gave up the chance to compete at 4cc's due to not continuing next year wouldn't really have any bearing on whether or not he would be able to compete at the Olympics in that unlikely event. I would assume he would train until Worlds just in case. Ashley didn't give up her alternate position and she didn't go to 4ccs.

I was in total agreement with this except for the fact that the last week's worth of posts on instagram seem to indicate that he's been off skiing. Not exactly what you'd expect for someone training to be an alternate.

Please no more MR!

I take it at this point I'm the only one in this thread who likes Roxanne as an instrumental. (I hate the lyrics.)

But I would love another Latin program from Max - it is a shame that his one outing with the Spanish SP went so badly. I think he has a very charming personality and it would be great to see a program where he could smile instead of being Very Serious.

He had the samba Historia de un Amor SP in 2013-2014. Lots of people didn't like it for some reason, which I found weird, because I thought it was brilliant. (Oh, I had forgotten he was still doing catch-foot camels at this point. *cringe*)

The Latin flair Max showed as a junior brings to mind his more exciting 'bullfighter' short program which he briefly tried but eventually replaced with Nessun Dorma (2016 - 2017 season).

No, he skated Nessun Dorma for all of the 2015-2016 season and the first part of the 2016-2017 season. La Virgen de la Macarena (the Bullfighter) made its first and last appearance at US Nationals 2017. I assumed that he decided it was better for his mental state to not revisit that program. I wouldn't mind seeing it return if he continues next season, because that was a great program.

I would like to see Max skate to something more along the lines of Zorro. Latin and just a bit character driven (since he's trying to increase his interpretation scores).

I am down for ZorroMax.

When was the last time he did a flip?

2015 US Nationals in the Gladiator free skate. I think he got an e.

 

[Tavi]

Finally got around to watching the US men at the 4CCs. It's like 2016 Worlds when all 3 men just nailed it and made everyone stand in ovation. Incidentally Grant and Max were at both 2016 Worlds and 2018 4CCs.

Grant skated gloriously. Les Mis just worked so well for him and I am glad he got to finish his career on a high note. What happened to the sal?

Max's jumps were sharp. It's like he was finally able to focus on nailing the jumps when he no longer had to care about PCS. The program here was absolutely empty but he sold it well. When was the last time he did a flip?

Jason was perfection but honestly I was tired of the same old same old long program genre from him. Riverdance was so exciting but he never really stepped out of his comfort zone for the long program again.

As Jason mentioned at the press conference, there was a specific reason he went back to that long program for 4CCs.

 

[alj5]

As Jason mentioned at the press conference, there was a specific reason he went back to that long program for 4CCs.

Well I for one was delighted. It's a stunning program.

 

[Tavi]

Well I for one was delighted. It's a stunning program.

Me, too. And after such a tough season, I was really happy that he was able to give such a great performance.

 

[Cleo1782]

I was in total agreement with this except for the fact that the last week's worth of posts on instagram seem to indicate that he's been off skiing. Not exactly what you'd expect for someone training to be an alternate.

I am not sure in what capacity 2nd alternates to a 3 man team need to train. The odds of him being called up for either event (worlds or the olys) are almost non-existent. When is the last time it happened? (The only thing I can recall is 1998 worlds when Nicole and Tara wd, but Nikodinov wasn't available/ready, so they just sent Michelle and Tonia K instead of 3-although I am sure it's happened in pairs at least a few times post-Olys). Even in the Angela case I am pretty sure Angela never gave up her status as alternate, just didn't actually compete when she had the chance. So I figure Ross is still in alternate, perhaps in name only.

 

[Skittl1321]

If you are named alternate, you are supposed to train as though you could get the spot. Otherwise, what is the point of naming the alternate. If the 2nd alternate feels like they have no chance of competing, and shouldn't train, why bother naming a 2nd alternate?

 

[vesperholly]

I take it at this point I'm the only one in this thread who likes Roxanne as an instrumental. (I hate the lyrics.)

I actually really like MR the movie and the songs are good. But Tango de Roxanne is ridiculously overused, and most of the programs are lame. I prefer MR programs that use Hindi Sad Diamonds, like Wagner and Craine (BTW bummed she ditched the dress she wore at Nebelhorn, it was gorgeous).

 

[skatingguy]

Okay, so I guess NBC is going all in on Nathan Chen. The commercial's pretty good.

Figure skater Nathan Chen is 'The Boss' in Olympics Super Bowl commercial
https://twitter.com/EW/status/958332605333729282

 

[gkelly]

A slightly different topic -- for the US men who don't have a quad yet, I wonder if they could consider adding more jump difficulty the Zagitova way -- putting even more jumps in the second half, tackling a 3 loop to a triple for a 3-3 combo, or adding more features to a jump. Zhou and Johnson are doing a triple lutz - triple flip sequence which is great.

Those are all options.

Brown seems to be doing pretty well on quality/GOE for most of his clean jumps (and even more for non-jump elements), without quads.

Kevin Van DP in his height, managed a 3-3-3 that allowed him to attempt 9 triples.

Nine triples is not legal. There are six types of triples, and only two may be repeated, so the maximum legal number of triples is 8. And if you repeat two triples, you can't repeat any quad.

A 3-3-3 combination, plus another 3-3 (can't have half loop in the middle), would allow you to fit five triples into two jump passes. However, that layout would require repeating the toe loop and/or the loop instead of higher value triples. The other six passes could be used for three more triples, one in combination with a double jump, two different solo quads, and a double axel. Or one quad and two double axels.

Or do two of the same quad and only seven triples. E.g.,
4T+2T, 4T, 3A+2T, 3F+3T+3Lo, 3A, 3Lz, 3S, 2A

That isn't more content than a program that puts 3T on the back of the repeated quad or 3A, but it might allow for greater consistency/quality for higher GOEs. Depends on the skater's strengths.



If the rules change to limit the men to 7 jump passes instead of 8, then that ability would become more useful.

At the very least no more skaters under 18 performing to El Tango de Roxanne. I saw no fewer than 4 underage skaters at nationals skating to a song about prostitution and trying to "get into character." None would have been preferable.

I take it at this point I'm the only one in this thread who likes Roxanne as an instrumental. (I hate the lyrics.)

I don't mind it musically.

My objection to the lyrics is not that the song is "about prostitution" but rather male singers making it all about their emotional pain that they can't control a woman's sexuality. I feel the same about any opera or stage play, etc., using the same trope.

If we get songs written by women that depict a woman's perspective on her own and sexual choices and options or lack thereof that include prostitution, I'll be happy to listen and watch female skaters (preferably not minors) interpret them.

Or a male voice singing about male prostitution.

Without lyrics, it's just music -- often the skaters don't know the source material.

 

[Jayar]

Can someone tell me what Jason's reason was for going back to The Scent of Love? Not criticizing-- just curious.

 

[baramin]

Brown, unfortunately, doesn’t seem comfortable enough with his 3a to slot 2 into the back half of his program. Rippon is fairly well maxed out, aside from the all jumps in the second half option.

I suppose to truly max out a non-quad program, you’d do in the 2nd half some variation on: 3a-3t, 3z-3l, 2a-1/2l-3s, 3f, 3a, 3z, 2a, 2z. I would be pretty amazed to ever again see an intentional solo double aside from the axel, though.

 

[Mrs. P]

Those are all options.

Brown seems to be doing pretty well on quality/GOE for most of his clean jumps (and even more for non-jump elements), without quads.

Jason, on video, has been seen doing a 3A-1L-3F, 3A-1L-3S, 3Z-1L-3F. And he seems to have the ability to tack on a -1L-3S on most jumps -- as noted by his Hail Mary 3Lo-1L-3S during his semi-meltdown at NHK Trophy FS (after stepping out on the 3Z, where the combo was originally going to , which is kinda noteworthy considering he's popped that jump a lot this season. He's done 3Z-3T on the fly too. Considering his 3Lo has been touch and go, I don't expect we'll see a -3Lo combo from him any time soon.

I know the 3A combos (or a 2nd half 3A) seem a bit ambitious sounding given his 3A troubles this season, but just saying he's done them and there's video evidence he can land it. (Not to mention he's done 2nd half 3As just fine in competition in the past -- see the 3A-3T from the Skate Canada FS).

Can someone tell me what Jason's reason was for going back to The Scent of Love? Not criticizing-- just curious.

Quote from the FS press conference:

I think by the end of the season I was done running, I was done chasing after that and I wanted to come to this event and strip out of that shelland be me and be proud of who I am. This what I did at this event. I was just me. I wasn’t trying to please anyone, I wasn’t trying to be something that I wasn’t or chasing something that I wasn’t ready for. I was owning who I was and perform my heart out and trying to be the best version of myself that I possibly could be. That’s kind of why I went back to my old program, to have this new start and a new beginning in a way.

 

[Willin]

I don't mind it musically.

My objection to the lyrics is not that the song is "about prostitution" but rather male singers making it all about their emotional pain that they can't control a woman's sexuality. I feel the same about any opera or stage play, etc., using the same trope.

If we get songs written by women that depict a woman's perspective on her own and sexual choices and options or lack thereof that include prostitution, I'll be happy to listen and watch female skaters (preferably not minors) interpret them.

Or a male voice singing about male prostitution.

Without lyrics, it's just music -- often the skaters don't know the source material.

The "about prostitution" or "sexuality" part has less to do with the topic and more that it's minors skating to it. If an adult wants to skate to something about sex or sexuality, I have no problem with it (although I agree this particular song is problematic). But, I do have a problem with minors skating to anything about sexuality. Yes, I understand that teens are having sex and such, but I still find it gross to see them skating to anything about it.

I certainly agree that it's just music without lyrics. What bugged me was all four Roxanne programs from underage skaters was that all used lyrics. Without lyrics it's just another tango; with lyrics the meaning of the song is pretty obvious.

 

[Tavi]

Brown, unfortunately, doesn’t seem comfortable enough with his 3a to slot 2 into the back half of his program. Rippon is fairly well maxed out, aside from the all jumps in the second half option.

I suppose to truly max out a non-quad program, you’d do in the 2nd half some variation on: 3a-3t, 3z-3l, 2a-1/2l-3s, 3f, 3a, 3z, 2a, 2z. I would be pretty amazed to ever again see an intentional solo double aside from the axel, though.

I agree that Jason’s 3A was MIA/wonky for most of the 2017-18 season, but in 2016 it was quite consistent in both SP/FS (excluding the comps where he was injured//recovering from injury - NHK, Nats 2017, 4CC 2017). Between September 2016 - October 2017, he did 7 3As in the second half of the FS and got +GOE on all of them.

 

[vesperholly]

I suppose to truly max out a non-quad program, you’d do in the 2nd half some variation on: 3a-3t, 3z-3l, 2a-1/2l-3s, 3f, 3a, 3z, 2a, 2z. I would be pretty amazed to ever again see an intentional solo double aside from the axel, though.

You could do two 2axels, but this is exactly why Rippon tries the 4lutz.

 

[A.H.Black]

Okay, so I guess NBC is going all in on Nathan Chen. The commercial's pretty good.

Figure skater Nathan Chen is 'The Boss' in Olympics Super Bowl commercial
https://twitter.com/EW/status/958332605333729282

If those are really Nathan's hands (not a hand model) then Nathan has really great looking hands.

 

[livetoskate]

If those are really Nathan's hands (not a hand model) then Nathan has really great looking hands.

The article says Nathan is a 4 time national champion. Also what I find funny about the commercial is that it shows Nathan (or possibly a body double??) falling a bunch of times on easy stuff, like a double lutz and a flying spin. I guess they wanted to show how tough skating is, but I think it is very unlikely that Nathan's falling on such easy things in practice. Nice commercial nevertheless!

 

[baramin]

You could do two 2axels, but this is exactly why Rippon tries the 4lutz.

Yeah—that’s why I did the 2a-1/2l-3s combo rather than 3 triple triples, to keep the 2nd 2a spot open, but that still leaves an extra slot for a double. Really shows that even a downgraded quad is worth going for if you’re anywhere near maxing out your triples-only content. Looking forward to seeing how Brown’s camp decides to up his tech base next season as they continue to work with his limits.

 

[Skittl1321]

I'll totally buy that Nathan falls on flying spins- even the best wipe out on those occasionally. But yeah, I'm guessing Nathan hasn't fallen on a double lutz in a very long time. It was likely an easy 'fake fall' if they didn't use a body double, so he wouldn't get hurt.

That's freaking exciting to get his own super bowl commercial.

I wonder where 4 time national champion came from. I mean he's either a 2-time or a 6-time (or more if you go beyond novice; but when he was at it that was separated into Junior Nationals).

 

[vesperholly]

Yeah—that’s why I did the 2a-1/2l-3s combo rather than 3 triple triples, to keep the 2nd 2a spot open, but that still leaves an extra slot for a double. Really shows that even a downgraded quad is worth going for if you’re anywhere near maxing out your triples-only content. Looking forward to seeing how Brown’s camp decides to up his tech base next season as they continue to work with his limits.

Is there still a rule that the third combination needs to be a sequence of three jumps? Like 3-1/2-3 or 3-2-2?

Doing three 3-3 combos also reduces possible points, because you're repeating (at best) the 3axel and 3loop twice. But to max points, you'd want to repeat the 3lutz.

If there were a multiplier for combinations, it would erase that deficit. Still makes no sense to me that a 3axel and a 3loop would be worth the same as they would be worth together. When was the last time 3axel-3loop was even attempted? Jayson Denomme?

I wonder where 4 time national champion came from. I mean he's either a 2-time or a 6-time (or more if you go beyond novice; but when he was at it that was separated into Junior Nationals).

If you won Juvenile at Junior Nationals, you are still a national champion. However, Nathan never won Juvenile or Intermediate - he was 10th and 3rd in Juvenile and 2nd in Intermediate.

I hate silly inaccuracies like that.

 

[Bellanca]

That's freaking exciting to get his own super bowl commercial.

Definitely! Also, Nathan flakes, cereal aisle - #7. He has arrived!

 

[gkelly]

Is there still a rule that the third combination needs to be a sequence of three jumps? Like 3-1/2-3 or 3-2-2?

There was never any such rule.

The requirements regarding combos/sequences are

Max 3 jump combinations or sequences
*Jump combinations limited to 2 jumps except one 3-jump combination is allowed
*Number of jumps in a sequence is not limited

(emphasis added)

Also, some kind of axel jump is required and the Zayak rule applies.
However, it is not currently required to do any kind of jump combination or sequence in the freeskate.

Skaters can use whatever configuration of solo jumps and combos or sequences they can fit into those limits. To maximize their base value, it is usually advantageous to do some kind of 3-jump combination if possible. A jump sequence will usually not help maximize value because of the 80% sequence penalty, but for some skaters it may be their personal best bet, especially for ladies who can do all the different kinds of triples and want to repeat two but cannot do any 3+3 or 2A+3 combination.

 

[Kultakissu]

And he seems to have the ability to tack on a -1L-3S on most jumps -- as noted by his Hail Mary 3Lo-1L-3S during his semi-meltdown at NHK Trophy FS (after stepping out on the 3Z, where the combo was originally going to , which is kinda noteworthy considering he's popped that jump a lot this season. He's done 3Z-3T on the fly too. Considering his 3Lo has been touch and go, I don't expect we'll see a -3Lo combo from him any time soon.

I believe that what is now his regular ta-da-jump, ie. the final 3Z-R-3S of the FS, originated from a hail mary combo that he performed at Rostlecom Cup in 2014 after messing up the planned combo. It worked and has been his final FS jump ever since!

 

[BittyBug]

To maximize their base value, it is usually advantageous to do some kind of 3-jump combination if possible.

Yes. How may times did Johnny Weir miss a medal or placement because he didn't tack on another double toe?

 

[Mrs. P]

I believe that what is now his regular ta-da-jump, ie. the final 3Z-R-3S of the FS, originated from a hail mary combo that he performed at Rostlecom Cup in 2014 after messing up the planned combo. It worked and has been his final FS jump ever since!

He's done the 3Z-1L-3S from the start of his first senior season. He did a 3F-1L-3S a handful of times as a junior, but it hasn't made an appearance, at least as far as planned content.

He probably could gain more points by tacking on combos on both 3As.

But he would be money ahead, IMO, to ease up on the choreo in the way that would make the quad consistent. Part of his issue this season is that he try to take on two pretty hard programs AND integrate a quad. There's a happy medium between crossovers and jumps and choreographed packed programs.

 

[aftershocks]

Cross-posting from Nathan Slaythan thread:

Ha ha, here's Nathan looking at his Super Bowl commercial for the first time on NBC live:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbjs9IWpwlE 'Bad m****r' JB knew how get down soulfully -- good song choice for Nathan's commercial; it's cool seeing Nathan watching for the first time while we watch

A Nathan montage video -- Nathan: The Champion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W24qEb0EixA

I think [2017 Worlds] was pressure too. First time in a big event and with a lot picking him as the favorite too. He has a ton more experience now a year later, and will have gone through that rough learning experience.

Nah, I think Nathan Chen is really cool under pressure. He's been that way his entire career. It's been the physical injury hurdles, bone-growth issues as an adolescent, boot issues more recently and other outside factors that have been the biggest hurdles he's had to overcome. He's quite strong mentally and he has a laid-back, no-nonsense personality. Not much seems to faze him. He's focused on his goals and he and Raf seem to be communicating better than when they had a rough patch a couple of years ago.