U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

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Keep a civil tongue in your pointed head idiot!

You have just hit your limit of calling other posters names. If you want people to be civil to you, be civil to them. If you can't make yourself post like an adult, you will have to take a time out until you get a grip.

If you wish to reply to me, I strongly suggest you do it in a PM.
 
:wall: I've blocked out the 2014 selections. :lol:

Which there was nothing wrong with. Max would have unquestionably given anything to have Jason's assignment. Instead he was effectively told "we don't think you're good enough for the Olympics, but go do the heavy lifting at Worlds to get those spots back". Also, IIRC wasn't there separate criteria for Worlds/Olympics that year?
 
This long program from Jason is my favorite from him ever. I definitely think his PCS deserves to be significantly higher than Vincent's. For years Jason was consistent, but he has struggled this year. Even if he had come in fourth tonight, it would be hard to justify sending him. I don't know what to do about Ross. I don't know where he pulled that performance from, but it was great! Unfortunately, it really was an anomoly given his recent performances. Adam has had a really good season, and the odds are very high that he would do better than Ross at the Olympics. Vincent has not had a great season. Even though he has improved from last season and he did better tonight, he still isn't a contender for a medal. But, TPTB might want to give him the experience. So, it's a tough call for the committee. I think Jason is out. I have a hard time leaving Ross out because he did have such a great competition and came in second, but I understand the argument for leaving him home. Adam really has had a better season overall than everyone except for Nathan, and he's really worked for it. I'm glad I'm not on the committee! Personally, I was hoping the top three finishers would be Nathan, Adam, and that they would all go. Now, I guess I'm hoping for Nathan, Adam, and, um, er, Ross?

ETA:


When was the last time they selected an Olympic team that was different from the Worlds team they selected?
1992 with Paul Wylie and Mark Mitchell?


2014, sent Max instead of Jason
 
You know I'm reminded that Vincent won the silver at last years nationals yet didn't get the ticket to worlds. To not send him to the Olympics and worlds even though he placed top 3 for the second year running would be some strong hardcore cruel and unusual punishment :scream:
 
You know I'm reminded that Vincent won the silver at last years nationals yet didn't get the ticket to worlds. To not send him to the Olympics even though he placed top 3 for the second year running would be some strong hardcore cruel and unusual punishment :scream:

If I were Vincent, I'd think about skating for another country if he's blown off again! He's supposed to be "our future!" :rolleyes:
 
You know I'm reminded that Vincent won the silver at last years nationals yet didn't get the ticket to worlds. To not send him to the Olympics and worlds even though he placed top 3 for the second year running would be some strong hardcore cruel and unusual punishment :scream:

But that was partially Vincent's fault. If he'd got the minimums at Golden Spin, they'd have sent him. I still think the right decision was made; looking at Vincent's Senior debut hasn't exactly made the decision look worse in hindsight.
 
I don't think Adam should get BOTH Worlds and Olympics. He should not replace someone higher than him at both.

Worlds is more important in a lot of ways, for getting spots for next year. I'd send him there, but have the 'real' podium finishers go to Olympics.

If Jason gets sent to O's or Worlds over anyone above him, that's just unfair to all who skated to earn the spots.
 
I don't think Adam should get BOTH Worlds and Olympics. He should not replace someone higher than him at both.

Worlds is more important in a lot of ways, for getting spots for next year. I'd send him there, but have the 'real' podium finishers go to Olympics.

If Jason gets sent to O's or Worlds over anyone above him, that's just unfair to all who skated to earn the spots.

I agree with everything you said. Send Ross to Olympics and Adam to Worlds. Jason should be 2nd alternate for both Olympics and Worlds.
 
:watch:

I do not envy the selection committee. There is no good answer that is fair to everybody.

The FAIR thing is sending the ones who won, placed, & showed just like the ladies! Easy! Maybe they should have learned their lessons from the past when they stepped in to manipulate the selections! :rolleyes: :COP: :duh: :puppet: :revenge:
 
I predict Nathan Vincent Adam for Olympics and Nathan Vincent Ross for Worlds. As much as I loved Ross' skate I doubt he will ever repeat it and Adam has been far more consistent. Vincent has been pretty good with his Jr. Worlds win and results despite his injuries and can help keep three spots for Worlds next season.
 
This really is a nightmare scenario for the selection committee. There's an up and down to naming any two men along with Nathan.

JMHO - the Olympic and World team should be Nathan, Vincent and Adam. It breaks my heart but this is the first time that Ross delivered in years. If they intend to use BOW to select the team, Ross loses out.
 
I’d send the podium to the Olys because a) it’s fair and b) there are no real consequences even if one of them bombs. For Worlds replace Ross with Adam to keep 3 spots. Grant, Vincent and Jason to 4CC although I’m 99% convinced Jason is injured somehow. His jumps haven’t had the usual height all season (after SC especially) and even when he gets them they’re kind of eked out.
 
I’d send the podium to the Olys because a) it’s fair and b) there are no real consequences even if one of them bombs. For Worlds replace Ross with Adam to keep 3 spots. Grant, Vincent and Jason to 4CC although I’m 99% convinced Jason is injured somehow. His jumps haven’t had the usual height all season (after SC especially) and even when he gets them they’re kind of eked out.

Well depending on who bombs it could mean no team medal.
 
If Adam gets Worlds and not Olys, I bet he will opt not to go to Worlds. Not the best strategic move for the USFSA.
 
You know I'm reminded that Vincent won the silver at last years nationals yet didn't get the ticket to worlds. To not send him to the Olympics and worlds even though he placed top 3 for the second year running would be some strong hardcore cruel and unusual punishment :scream:

Everyone has their opinion. A lot of posters seem to feel Nathan, Ross and Adam should go to the Olympics, with Nathan, Vincent and Adam going to Worlds, and Vincent, Jason, and Grant to 4CCs. As I said earlier, that would be my choice too, if I had any say. Adam's body of work is going to be stronger than that of Vincent and Ross (although Ross has had a very good career over the years, and he's also got two very good programs). Ross performed very well the last two Nationals, just faltering slightly in the fp but still placing well.

I know some will disagree with the argument that Vincent is young and that he will have at least two more opportunities to go for the Olympics. Vincent had no inkling of being on the podium at Nationals last year, and he admitted to finding himself ahead of schedule. I think his good showing at 2017 Nationals increased his confidence for Jr. Worlds. Part of the problem with figure skating is that the current competitive structure makes it difficult for skaters to have enough opportunities to compete in order to gain experience, exposure and confidence. Much less can they build momentum and reputation. Ross had very good performances in his first Worlds in Moscow (along with Richard Dornbush), but the judges were unkind, so sometimes placements internationally are not always an indication of what a skater can do or how they actually performed. It's better to look at the actual performances rather than the placements, since judging is often fickle.

While Vincent is a strong jumper and it's gutsy to go for the quads, he's not exactly landing them all cleanly, so he will not get the points internationally on tech nor on PCS that he got at Nationals. But with the quads (even under-rotated, he can perhaps place well and contribute more being on a Worlds team). Adam has more maturity, and he's been consistent and he has always received good scores on PCS from international judges. As someone else mentioned earlier, Worlds is more important re the team that is sent, in order to maintain 3 spots. Since this is Ross' and Adam's final year and they both contended well on many occasions over the years and in recent seasons too, I think they should both be on the Olympic team. And Vincent can gain more experience at 4CCs and make a strong team with Nathan and Adam at Worlds.

This truthfully is not the first time Ross has performed strongly, so it shouldn't be viewed as a fluke, but he does not tend to always get the points he deserves internationally (which he can try to counteract at the Olympics on an individual basis which won't impact spots for next year's Worlds). Let Ross have this once in a lifetime opportunity that he earned with his performances -- it's his final opportunity. Adam too has worked so hard, and he has had a solid medal-winning record for two years on the GP, along with strong performances at Worlds. This is his final opportunity for the Olympics too. Vincent will have other chances to make the Olympics. And Vincent can gain valuable experience going to 4CCs and Worlds this season.
 
Everyone has their opinion. A lot of posters seem to feel Nathan, Ross and Adam should go to the Olympics, with Nathan, Vincent and Adam going to Worlds, and Vincent, Jason, and Grant to 4CCs. As I said earlier, that would be my choice too, if I had any say. Adam's body of work is going to be stronger than that of Vincent and Ross (although Ross has had a very good career over the years, and he's also got two very good programs). Ross performed very well the last two Nationals, just faltering slightly in the fp but still placing well.

I know some will disagree with the argument that Vincent is young and that he will have at least two more opportunities to go for the Olympics. Vincent had no inkling of being on the podium at Nationals last year, and he admitted to finding himself ahead of schedule. I think his good showing at 2017 Nationals increased his confidence for Jr. Worlds. Part of the problem with figure skating is that the current competitive structure makes it difficult for skaters to have enough opportunities to compete in order to gain experience, exposure and confidence. Much less can they build momentum and reputation. Ross had very good performances in his first Worlds in Moscow (along with Richard Dornbush), but the judges were unkind, so sometimes placements internationally are not always an indication of what a skater can do or how they actually performed. It's better to look at the actual performances rather than the placements, since judging is often fickle.

While Vincent is a strong jumper and it's gutsy to go for the quads, he's not exactly landing them all cleanly, so he will not get the points internationally on tech nor on PCS that he got at Nationals. But with the quads (even under-rotated, he can perhaps place well and contribute more being on a Worlds team). Adam has more maturity, and he's been consistent and he has always received good scores on PCS from international judges. As someone else mentioned earlier, Worlds is more important re the team that is sent, in order to maintain 3 spots. Since this is Ross' and Adam's final year and they both contended well on many occasions over the years and in recent seasons too, I think they should both be on the Olympic team. And Vincent can gain more experience at 4CCs and make a strong team with Nathan and Adam at Worlds.

This truthfully is not the first time Ross has performed strongly, so it shouldn't be viewed as a fluke, but he does not tend to always get the points he deserves internationally (which he can try to counteract at the Olympics on an individual basis which won't impact spots for next year's Worlds). Let Ross have this once in a lifetime opportunity that he earned with his performances -- it's his final opportunity. Adam too has worked so hard, and he has had a solid medal-winning record for two years on the GP, along with strong performances at Worlds. This is his final opportunity for the Olympics too. Vincent will have other chances to make the Olympics. And Vincent can gain valuable experience going to 4CCs and Worlds this season.

There is no guarantee Vincent will make the Olympics four years from now. Injuries happen.

Adam had two other opportunities to make the Olympics and faltered due to his own mistakes.

Do you really think it is fair to deny Zhou an opportunity for a major team the second year in a row he makes the Nationals podium. I am sorry I don't think it is fair. He also beat Adam at a Senior B this year.
 
^^ I'm saying what I think, just as everyone else is sharing their opinions. None of us are on the selection committee though.

Obviously anything can happen in four years, and in eight years. But Vincent still has two more chances. I think it will not be fair to ask Adam to do some heavy lifting at Worlds, without giving him the chance to be on the Olympic team, which is what he's worked so hard for all season long, in an amazing comeback from his foot injury. The other part of this is the 'body of work' argument, which USFS set up themselves. I think they will probably put who they want on the team for whatever justification they decide (whether fair or not), just as they did for the ladies. But in that case, USFS was giving Ashley a hard time because they generally always have. OTOH, I think all of the guys are equally well-liked and they can't be faulted for poor decisions.

. . . And they will probably use Nathan for both segments of the men's portion of the team event.

Possibly, but then they run the risk of Nathan being burnt out for the individual event gold medal battle.

ETA: I find it interesting that tech panels are so eager to review quad landings for skaters who aren't known to consistently land them, when in fact the landings were around and clean, and the skater made it look easy (i.e., Ross, and Jason too at 2016 Skate America, when the tech panel did not have a good angle and called a perfect fully rotated quad landing against Jason -- that could have been a turning point for Jason in mastering quads, but it was turned against him).

Vincent has been having trouble with many of his quad landings. I think he'd do well to concentrate on trying to land 3 or 4 quads cleanly rather than going gung ho for five with 3 to 4 of them messy and UR.
 
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He also beat Adam at a Senior B this year.

...and was beaten by the guy who finished 9th here twice, the second time by fifteen points.

That argument would have more merit if Vincent had had a good GP season. He didn't.
 
...and was beaten by the guy who finished 9th here twice, the second time by fifteen points.

That argument would have more merit if Vincent had had a good GP season. He didn't.
Both Adam and Zhou finished below Ross. Zhou did well his second GP in the free it was his first Senior GP I am inclined to give some leadway.
 
Both Adam and Zhou finished below Ross. Zhou did well his second GP in the free it was his first Senior GP I am inclined to give some leadway.

What? Did you watch the GP series at all? Zhou skated okay at Cup of China with a lenient panel, but still couldn't beat his veteran teammate, but France was a disaster. He fell to pieces and got a PCS of 69 in the FS.

And sorry, but weren't you claiming his Senior ISU debut should be the World Championships? A much higher-pressure event than the GP with Olympic spots on the line? But somehow we should give him leeway for a sub-par Senior ISU debut on the GP?
 
I’d send the podium to the Olys because a) it’s fair and b) there are no real consequences even if one of them bombs. For Worlds replace Ross with Adam to keep 3 spots. Grant, Vincent and Jason to 4CC although I’m 99% convinced Jason is injured somehow. His jumps haven’t had the usual height all season (after SC especially) and even when he gets them they’re kind of eked out.

Bold mine.

But the selection committee is focusing not just on Nationals. It's a BOW and in every other respect, Ross has been MIA. I honestly don't mean to take anything away from Ross but he has underperformed this season and for years now. I realize that he has had injuries too. He was great at 2015 RC where he ironically skated even w/ Adam, but I don't recall Ross giving a top 10 worlds performance since the aforementioned in 2015 and possibly 2012 NHK (I don't recall his 2013 Nationals performance).

If I was on the Committee, I would put those I mentioned in my earlier post on both Olympic and Worlds team. BOW. Jason finished way too low here (and he is performing uncharacteristically badly which also makes me think he is injured) to be in the conversation.

I can also see Adam saying 'no' to Worlds.
 
What? Did you watch the GP series at all? Zhou skated okay at Cup of China with a lenient panel, but still couldn't beat his veteran teammate, but France was a disaster. He fell to pieces and got a PCS of 69 in the FS.

And sorry, but weren't you claiming his Senior ISU debut should be the World Championships? A much higher-pressure event than the GP with Olympic spots on the line? But somehow we should give him leeway for a sub-par Senior ISU debut on the GP?

I think if young skaters deliver at Nationals especially with content Zhou has you give them opportunity. Some skaters do better later in the year. Zhou did well at Junior Worlds.

I don't see the benefit of holding up Rippon or Brown. Sure they "might" do better at Worlds Olympics but that experience gives Zhou exposure for the next couple of years. I think every other fed would have taken Zhou to Worlds last year.
 
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