U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

[wickedwitch]

Rika Kihira achieved a higher TES at NHK than almost all the men competing the free skate this season with the same jump content as Jason. He’s not going to beat Nathan or Yuzuru this way, barring disaster from them, but he can potentially beat almost everybody else.

He won't beat Shoma either. Which effectively limits the possibility that he wins a medal at Worlds, which has to be one of his goals. So I expect that long term he will continue to work on his quad.

At this point, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if he ever had a consistent (i.e. >50%) quad, but I do hold out hope that he'll land at least one in competition.

 

[sk9tingfan]

He was very good. (I'm not sure why I'm surprised at that, but I am. I can see him moving in that direction for a career.)

ITA. He has natural timing and he's also naturally funny.

 

[Willin]

With Jason, I almost wonder if he's having the same problem he had with Kori, but Brian and Co are taking a different approach.
I remember in the first few competitions he was very obviously trying to set up for a 4S in the FS that he popped both times. Brian also said something about his 4S being better than his 4T. Maybe after those pops and/or seeing how other skaters scored without a quad they decided to take it out and wait to put it back in until Jason was completely ready to land it in competition.

 

[acraven]

Here's an interview of Nathan by Meryl Davis. He talks about going back to CA over his break to train with Raf and how he looks forward to seeing his training mates (like Mariah, Romain) again. I doubt he'd go to 4CC because it's in the middle of his semester.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nwAf2HKKbY&feature=youtu.be

Interesting comment from Nathan beginning at about the 8-minute mark. He refers to Yale's often-mentioned policy of allowing any student to take two semesters or one year off without going through a formal withdrawal process, then goes on to say that he thinks taking 2 years off prior to the Olympics would probably be better. He acknowledges the need to discuss that with the university without specifying when he might do that.

 

[Carolla5501]

Because I think he is eventually going to need a quad to make Worlds even if he may not need it this season. I hope his results don't convince him to drop training the quad altogether.

I think you are creating drama to amuse yourself.

Jason has been very clear that he knows he needs a quad to accomplish his goals . And his results did not get him to the Grand Prix final or even near the alternate list. So I doubt his results are meeting his goals

 

[misskarne]

Because I think he is eventually going to need a quad to make Worlds even if he may not need it this season. I hope his results don't convince him to drop training the quad altogether.

Good to know your low opinion of Jason's intelligence, I suppose.

 

[acraven]

I'm always puzzled by fans who think skaters are not working on new and improved skills--subject to the limitations of what their bodies allow, of course.

 

[skatingguy]

With Jason, I almost wonder if he's having the same problem he had with Kori, but Brian and Co are taking a different approach.
I remember in the first few competitions he was very obviously trying to set up for a 4S in the FS that he popped both times. Brian also said something about his 4S being better than his 4T. Maybe after those pops and/or seeing how other skaters scored without a quad they decided to take it out and wait to put it back in until Jason was completely ready to land it in competition.

I don't know about whether Jason's 4S is better than his 4T, but putting the salchow in means that popping it to a double has fewer implications for the rest of the program than doing a 2T.

 

[barbarafan]

I don't know about whether Jason's 4S is better than his 4T, but putting the salchow in means that popping it to a double has fewer implications for the rest of the program than doing a 2T.

It was specifically mentioned that Brian felt his salchow would be easier to change to a quad than the toe so that will be the first one we will see. It does not mean that they are not working on the 4T but just that the Salchow will be ready first.
Their goals for this year is for him to be on the world team. How many spots does the US have for 4cc and worlds?

 

[Colonel Green]

How many spots does the US have for 4cc and worlds?

3, in each case. Jason’s not in any danger of missing the World team; it’s more a question of whether he qualifies second or third.

And I think that will really come down to whether the tech panel at Nationals lets Vincent get away with URs that are being called internationally.

 

[barbarafan]

3, in each case. Jason’s not in any danger of missing the World team; it’s more a question of whether he qualifies second or third.

And I think that will really come down to whether the tech panel at Nationals lets Vincent get away with URs that are being called internationally.

Thanks..so he is on track at this point to make team although there are some good juniors coming up. Are any of the older juniors turning senior this year?

 

[gkelly]

How many spots does the US have for 4cc and worlds?

As far as I know, all non-European ISU members can send up to 3 entries in each discipline to Four Continents, as long as they have the TES minimums.

Even so, there aren't always enough to make a cut to 24 after the short program.
I expect travel expenses are a concern for some feds in addition to the TES restrictions.

Until the fields get significantly larger (>36 for singles, I guess), that will probably remain the case as it has for the first 20 years of its existence.

 

[Colonel Green]

Thanks..so he is on track at this point to make team although there are some good juniors coming up. Are any of the older juniors turning senior this year?

There aren’t any American juniors who I’d consider real threats to displace Jason this year.

Long-term, yes, he’ll likely need to up his tech to stay ahead of people like Tomoki (and Andrew, if he ever gets it together), but right now there’s no reason the USFSA would consider sending the junior men to Worlds in lieu of Jason when he’s shown he can beat guys like Samarin (twice) and Kolyada by skating mostly cleanly.

 

[toddlj]

Here are the top 10 US guys based on Seasons Best. There's a pretty big drop-off after the top 3. I think Jason would have to bomb pretty hard to end up off the world team, but ice is slippery for sure.

2 - 282.42 Nathan CHEN USA ISU Grand Prix Final 2018/19 07.12.2018
7 - 263.42 Jason BROWN USA ISU CS Golden Spin of Zagreb 2018 07.12.2018
17 - 234.25 Vincent ZHOU USA ISU CS Tallinn Trophy 2018 29.11.2018

30 - 223.95 Camden PULKINEN USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2018 31.08.2018
38 - 215.16 Tomoki HIWATASHI USA ISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 2018 05.10.2018
43 - 211.03 Alexei KRASNOZHON USA ISU GP Helsinki 2018 04.11.2018

47 - 209.02 Timothy DOLENSKY USA ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2018 29.09.2018
54 - 206.10 Jimmy MA USA ISU CS US International FS Classic 2018 14.09.2018
60 - 201.63 Andrew TORGASHEV USA ISU JGP Amber Cup 2018 08.09.2018
62 - 199.75 Alexander JOHNSON USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2018 10.11.2018

 

[Lizziebeth]

I think Jason's jumps look better than ever for the most part. He has done some great 3As and that jump took him a long time to get. My bet is that he eventually gets a quad of some kind.

Of course you must actually do the quad well in competition. That does not always go as planned. I watched quite a few splats lately.

 

[Colonel Green]

Yes, the 3As he’s been doing this year are some of the best I’ve ever seen from him. While the quad may be a work in progress, his time at the TCC has had immediate positive effects on his triple jumps that were becoming a problem in recent seasons.

 

[concorde]

Here are the top 10 US guys based on Seasons Best. There's a pretty big drop-off after the top 3. I think Jason would have to bomb pretty hard to end up off the world team, but ice is slippery for sure.

30 - 223.95 Camden PULKINEN USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2018 31.08.2018
38 - 215.16 Tomoki HIWATASHI USA ISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 2018 05.10.2018
60 - 201.63 Andrew TORGASHEV USA ISU JGP Amber Cup 2018 08.09.2018

I believe Senior programs have more required elements (greater scoring potential) than junior programs. If so, these should not be a direct comparison.

 

[toddlj]

I believe Senior programs have more required elements (greater scoring potential) than junior programs. If so, these should not be a direct comparison.

That's a fair point, but even taking that into account, having seen the progress of these skaters this season, I stand by my opinion that Jason will be difficult for any top US juniors to beat.

 

[Colonel Green]

I believe Senior programs have more required elements (greater scoring potential) than junior programs. If so, these should not be a direct comparison.

Pulkinen and Hiwatashi also competed senior at the Alpen Trophy; the results weren’t particularly promising. Just one performance, of course, but you’d need very strong results to displace a veteran like Jason who medaled on the Grand Prix and won a Challenger over some big guns.

 

[gkelly]

I believe Senior programs have more required elements (greater scoring potential) than junior programs. If so, these should not be a direct comparison.

The only difference in the freeskates is that the seniors also have a Choreographic Sequence. That's not going to add many points.

There's more room for bigger point differences between juniors and seniors in the short program, because senior men are allowed to include quads in their SPs and juniors are not allowed any quads in the short.

 

[barbarafan]

Yes, the 3As he’s been doing this year are some of the best I’ve ever seen from him. While the quad may be a work in progress, his time at the TCC has had immediate positive effects on his triple jumps that were becoming a problem in recent seasons.

His Goe's were high on most elements (several 5's) and PCS's were mostly 9's

 

[toddlj]

The only difference in the freeskates is that the seniors also have a Choreographic Sequence. That's not going to add many points.

There's more room for bigger point differences between juniors and seniors in the short program, because senior men are allowed to include quads in their SPs and juniors are not allowed any quads in the short.

Of the top US juniors competing in seniors at Nats, Hiwatashi might be the closest to adding a quad in his SP; but it seems unlikely considering how risky it would be.

 

[barbarafan]

The only difference in the freeskates is that the seniors also have a Choreographic Sequence. That's not going to add many points.

There's more room for bigger point differences between juniors and seniors in the short program, because senior men are allowed to include quads in their SPs and juniors are not allowed any quads in the short.

The choreographic sequence at Golden Spin was 3.00 pts but Jason's GOE on this element was 4's and 5's with a total of 5.20 . All the areas of his skating where he is impressive already (spins and steps etc)are being worked on to eek out all the marks that can be added.

 

[concorde]

Of the top US juniors competing in seniors at Nats, Hiwatashi might be the closest to adding a quad in his SP; but it seems unlikely considering how risky it would be.

Agreed. Neither Andrew nor Camden have a quad.

Any update on Andrew?

 

[Sylvia]

Tomoki has attempted 4T in his SP at the past 2 Nationals -- in 2017 he was credited with landing 4T+3T (-2.40 GOE for 12.2 points) and last year he fell on 4T<. In his senior international debut at 2016 Warsaw Cup he landed 4T+3T (-1 GOE for 13.64 points).

Considering Jason doubled a loop and did not repeat a second triple jump in his FS at Golden Spin, he scored his ISU SB (167.92) in Zagreb which should be good for his confidence heading into Nationals.

ETA: Andrew has a very good quad toe loop (more consistent than his 3A in competition to date).

 

[toddlj]

Tomoki has attempted 4T in his SP at the past 2 Nationals -- in 2017 he was credited with landing 4T+3T (-2.40 GOE for 12.2 points) and last year he fell on 4T<. .

I wonder if he will try one in the SP at Nats? Seems like he is likely to go to Junior worlds... where he won't be able to use the quad in the SP... so why not got for a squeaky clean quadless SP at nats?

 

[Marco]

Here are the top 10 US guys based on Seasons Best. There's a pretty big drop-off after the top 3. I think Jason would have to bomb pretty hard to end up off the world team, but ice is slippery for sure.

2 - 282.42 Nathan CHEN USA ISU Grand Prix Final 2018/19 07.12.2018
7 - 263.42 Jason BROWN USA ISU CS Golden Spin of Zagreb 2018 07.12.2018
17 - 234.25 Vincent ZHOU USA ISU CS Tallinn Trophy 2018 29.11.2018

30 - 223.95 Camden PULKINEN USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2018 31.08.2018
38 - 215.16 Tomoki HIWATASHI USA ISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 2018 05.10.2018
43 - 211.03 Alexei KRASNOZHON USA ISU GP Helsinki 2018 04.11.2018

47 - 209.02 Timothy DOLENSKY USA ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2018 29.09.2018
54 - 206.10 Jimmy MA USA ISU CS US International FS Classic 2018 14.09.2018
60 - 201.63 Andrew TORGASHEV USA ISU JGP Amber Cup 2018 08.09.2018
62 - 199.75 Alexander JOHNSON USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2018 10.11.2018

Alexei Krasnozhon has had some solid performances so far this season and I am surprised he hasn't scored / placed higher. I think he is a favorite for the pewter and can threaten for bronze or silver if he finally lands his quad and Jason / Vincent run into trouble with their jumps. That's a big if of course.

I hope the US judges and callers are as strict on Vincent at nationals as the international judges have been on him all season on PCS and jump rotations respectively.

 

[Marco]

I doubt Jason will stop working on the quad even though it’s not in his programs right now. I think he wants to be in the mix for World medals, and he knows he needs a quad to do it. To me the current low tech FS makes sense because it is helping him (1) solidify his grasp on the new technique; (2) regain confidence; and (3) get back on people’s radar. IMO it would make sense if they set as an interim goal achieving higher jump GOE (+4) in the FS, but we’ll see what he does at Nats.

Hopefully not. To make the world podium he will probably need more than just 1 quad though - will most likely need 3+ quads across two phases of the competition.

Didn't he injure himself over-practising the quad? He isn't young anymore, so hopefully he will take it slowly (but not that slow).

 

[lurkz2]

Alexei Krasnozhon has had some solid performances so far this season and I am surprised he hasn't scored / placed higher. I think he is a favorite for the pewter and can threaten for bronze or silver if he finally lands his quad and Jason / Vincent run into trouble with their jumps. That's a big if of course.

I hope the US judges and callers are as strict on Vincent at nationals as the international judges have been on him all season on PCS and jump rotations respectively.

Alexei is recovering from injury and made a coaching change, but he’s been trending upward so I hope he does well at Nationals.

 

[Tavi]

Hopefully not. To make the world podium he will probably need more than just 1 quad though - will most likely need 3+ quads across two phases of the competition.

Didn't he injure himself over-practising the quad? He isn't young anymore, so hopefully he will take it slowly (but not that slow).

Ha ha - you make him sound so old! Yeah he’s about to turn 24, so I guess compared to Jun, he “isn’t young anymore.”

Seriously, though? One of the first things Brian said was basically, we can help him technically but we have to keep him healthy. So I don’t think they’re forcing him to do too much. In fact I’ve noticed in practice streams at run throughs that he now marks parts of the program, which he never used to do.

Regarding quads: my sense is that they’re not aiming at the podium this season - I mean he’s not even maxing his triples right now.

Regarding injuries: I think Rohene accused the quad of causing one of Jason’s injuries but I don’t know if Jason has ever said that.