U.S. Men 2025-26 Discussion - Quad God and the Mere Mortals

Willin said:
@tangerine dream I fully expect Jason to withdraw, unless he's going for a redemption skate. But who knows - he was in Milan making content and it's entirely unclear if he was training at that time. He also hasn't posted any skating/training content beyond Nationals aside from two sponsored posts.
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He's certainly the most likely to withdraw, but who knows?
 
PRlady said:
Psychologists have their limitations.
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Of course they do. But, he didn't even use one at all. More significantly, I think the idea that Ilia would have been fine if only he had gone to a previously Olympics ignores the scope of what he was dealing with in Milan.

Willin said:
@tangerine dream I fully expect Jason to withdraw, unless he's going for a redemption skate. But who knows - he was in Milan making content and it's entirely unclear if he was training at that time. He also hasn't posted any skating/training content beyond Nationals aside from two sponsored posts.
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I think he's likely to withdraw as well. I think he did post one that wasn't sponsored, though that was before the Olympics I think. His coach was in Milan the first week of the Olympics and Jason didn't create content in Milan until the second week, so I supposed it's theoretically possible that he did do some training there. But, I think it's much more likely that he was in Milan because of the commitments he had made to Hershey and to visit the Ronald McDonald House there. And why not have some fun and watch some Olympic events with some friends while he was there?
 
Allskate said:
Of course they do. But, he didn't even use one at all. More significantly, I think the idea that Ilia would have been fine if only he had gone to a previously Olympics ignores the scope of what he was dealing with in Milan.


I think he's likely to withdraw as well. I think he did post one that wasn't sponsored, though that was before the Olympics I think. His coach was in Milan the first week of the Olympics and Jason didn't create content in Milan until the second week, so I supposed it's theoretically possible that he did do some training there. But, I think it's much more likely that he was in Milan because of the commitments he had made to Hershey and to visit the Ronald McDonald House there. And why not have some fun and watch some Olympic events with some friends while he was there?
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To be fair, she was a bit busy doing commentary for NBC at the last minute.

Jason doesn't always post a lot of training content, at least not on his IG, so I don't know that him not putting anything out there for consumption between Nationals and when he popped up in Milan is indicative of a plan to withdraw. He is, though, IMO, the most likely to withdraw - I've got him right up there with Adam Siao Him Fa as the two most likely now that Shaidorov has passed on going to Worlds. It's only a few more weeks and we'll know for sure.
 
Karen-W said:
To be fair, she was a bit busy doing commentary for NBC at the last minute.
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Yes. And possibly in meetings even on days when she did not do commentary. Like I said, it was theoretically possible. Also, he's very experienced and disciplined. He posts about his workouts and cross-training (and very routine healthy meals) even when he is on the road. It's not like he couldn't practice on his own or with others like Brian Orser. But, as I said, I think there's a very good chance that he will withdraw.

Karen-W said:
I've got him right up there with Adam Siao Him Fa as the two most likely now that Shaidorov has passed on going to Worlds. It's only a few more weeks and we'll know for sure.
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Why Adam? I thought that he had said that he was going to Worlds and was going to continue after this season.
 
vgerdes said:
I think Ilia actually wasn't entirely wrong about how not being allowed to compete in the last Olympics probably cost him a medal in Milan (even though, in retrospect, he undoubtedly regrets saying it in front of a live mic). He had no context for just how different it would be.
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All I know is that several of the US men's Olympic figure skating gold medallists have all but said as much in various articles or on camera interviews (already posted around this forum).

Hayes Allen Jenkins said that he discussed what happened to Ilia with his wife Carol Heiss and his brother David, Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano also felt the same. Their respective first Olympics they had no pressure or expectations of winning. By their next Olympics, each WERE considered favorites for gold, there was still pressure but each were better prepared for that unique Olympic atmosphere. Likely Evan Lysacek and Nathan Chen probably feel the same too. Their first Olympic experiences, quite disappointing for some, not too bad at all for those who actually won a silver or bronze medal at their first Olympics, but overall, most of them seem to feel that Ilia would have benefited quite a bit if he'd been sent to Beijing four years ago. I strongly agree with them, although yes, some like Michelle Kwan never quite reached that golden ring, or sadly like Kurt Browning, never even reached silver or bronze. With Ilia, I'm still SMH all of these years later at the thought that they left such an obvious talent home, especially as he was the silver medallist. But it's done. On to Worlds and beyond.
 
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Allskate said:
Why Adam? I thought that he had said that he was going to Worlds and was going to continue after this season.
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I admit I haven't kept up with the post-Olympics interviews, etc, but given the injury he was dealing with, I just figured he'd decide to withdraw from Worlds and heal up ahead of next season if he's continuing.
 
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Sasha'sSpins said:
Hayes Allen Jenkins said that he discussed what happened to Ilia with his wife Carol Heiss and his brother David, Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano also felt the same. Their respective first Olympics they had no pressure or expectations of winning. By their next Olympics, each WERE considered favorites for gold, there was still pressure but each were better prepared for that unique Olympic atmosphere. Likely Evan Lysacek and Nathan Chen probably feel the same too. Their first Olympic experiences, quite disappointing for some, not too bad at all for those who actually won a silver or bronze medal at their first Olympics, but overall, most of them seem to feel that Ilia would have benefited quite a bit if he'd been sent to Beijing four years ago. I strongly agree with them, although yes, some like Michelle Kwan never quite reached that golden ring, or sadly like Kurt Browning, never even reached silver or bronze. With Ilia, I'm still SMH all of these years later at the thought that they left such an obvious talent home, especially as he was the silver medallist. But it's done. On to Worlds and beyond.
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This is what I meant. He wouldn't have been the favorite to win in Beijing, or even to medal. He could have gotten a better feel for what the Olympics were like, without all the expectations that were heaped on him this time. Yes, some skaters win gold their first time on Olympic ice. But it seems more like the exception than the rule. Ah well, what's done is done. And Ilia is apparently going to stick around for at least the next four years, if not beyond, so he'll undoubtedly get another shot.
 
Tesla said:
Alysa is a unicorn because she doesn't care about a medal. Gold or no gold, medal or no medal, she would be just as happy either way.
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Yes she says that and a medal might not have been her first priority but she certainly knew how to compose programs that resulted in high scores that wouldn't be possible without not only quality but also the technical components that bring more points. She put more than artistry into all of her programs.
 
But it can very well be the other way round. A skater who skates well all year has a crappy nationals and gets left out of Olympics.

We are using hindsight to critique a past decision but the way things play out right now have many variables that influence the current outcome and there wasn’t an easy way to foresee that down the road

Besides once you have decided on the Olympics qualification it is hard to suddenly change course in the season
 
misskarne said:
Well, one of those potential consequences would be Jason not continuing and the US men limping through the ensuing four years with two spots.
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The Olympics do not determine spots for other competitions.
jlai said:
But it can very well be the other way round. A skater who skates well all year has a crappy nationals and gets left out of Olympics.

We are using hindsight to critique a past decision but the way things play out right now have many variables that influence the current outcome and there wasn’t an easy way to foresee that down the road
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You are missing the point. Not following Nationals results leads to overthinking and second-guessing. .Following Nationals results merely leads to hypotheticals, which are not the same thing.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
No, they don't, but not making the Olympic team could have led to Brown retiring immediately, ie, no more Worlds in this last quad.
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Which would you have preferred? An additional spot at Worlds in 2024 (or maybe 2025) for an American man who would not finish in the Top Ten, or an Olympic Gold Medal for Ilia Malinin in 2026?

I don't expect an answer. I am only pointing out that this is a question that arises once you start down that path.
 
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Vagabond said:
Which would you have preferred? An additional spot at Worlds in 2024 (or maybe 2025) for an American man who would not finish in the Top Ten, or an Olympic Gold Medal for Ilia Malinin in 2026?

I don't expect an answer. I am only pointing out that this is a question that arises once you start down that path.
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The (underlying) question had already been answered multiple times upthread, including mine: @misskarne wrote in response to it. She hardly opened a can of worms.

It has nothing to do with what I preferred, and there was no guarantee that Malinin would have won an OGM had he skated in Beijing. He still would have been the overwhelming favorite to win with a cushion that could withstand multiple mistakes, and he still would have been in a position to lose it, rather than win it.
 
My point is there is no way to say if x had happened y would be better after the fact

Because y is the cause of many things that had happened. And if x changed it would have changed many things down the road which may or may not include y
 
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