U.S. Men 2022-23 news & updates

[Karen-W]

Lol. I'm dying at Jackie Wong trying to justify an any assignment or 1st alternate position for Camden. The USFS just assigned Zingas/Kolesnik with ONE Challenger result and 4th at Nats to be alternates to both Worlds & 4CCs over vastly more experienced teams. And we saw what happened with Pairs. I'm really going to be shocked if the #3 Worlds spot goes to anyone but Torgashev, and if Camden gets anything beyond a 4CCs alternate spot.

 

[tony]

Lol. I'm dying at Jackie Wong trying to justify an any assignment or 1st alternate position for Camden. The USFS just assigned Zingas/Kolesnik with ONE Challenger result and 4th at Nats to be alternates to both Worlds & 4CCs over vastly more experienced teams. And we saw what happened with Pairs. I'm really going to be shocked if the #3 Worlds spot goes to anyone but Torgashev, and if Camden gets anything beyond a 4CCs alternate spot.

But who goes to 4CC then?

I mean, they could simply give it to Naumov, Ma, and Kapeikis and call it a day, but there was minimal space between Camden and Liam and the Worlds placement/5th place finishes on the Grand Prix are likely going to hold some kind of weight in his favor with said criteria. ETA- actually almost ALL of the criteria goes in Camden's favor aside from this Nationals result. I don't think Paniot is in contention at all- he was miserable during qualifying and he had no energy through his programs here.

I for one really wouldn't be completely surprised if Camden does get named to 4CC. But who knows, maybe he will decide he's focusing on school the rest of the year and make the process easy for USFS.

I'm hoping Torgashev gets the chance to get the minimums for the actual Worlds spot, but who knows with that situation, too. I think what helps his cause is that those three men right behind him don't really have a stellar international record to boost themselves that far over him, and the fact that he did win the LP here.

 

[clairecloutier]

Did anyone see Torgashev's performances during Nationals qualifying? If so, what were they like?

 

[tony]

Pulkinen is first alt to Worlds, behind a pending Torgashev.

Naumov, Ma, Kapeikis to 4CC.

 

[Karen-W]

But who goes to 4CC then?

I mean, they could simply give it to Naumov, Ma, and Kapeikis and call it a day, but there was minimal space between Camden and Liam and the Worlds placement/5th place finishes on the Grand Prix are likely going to hold some kind of weight in his favor with said criteria. I don't think Paniot is in contention at all- he was miserable during qualifying and he had no energy through his programs here.

I for one really wouldn't be completely surprised if Camden does get named to 4CC. But who knows, maybe he will decide he's focusing on school the rest of the year and make the process easy for USFS.

I'm hoping Torgashev gets the chance to get the minimums for the actual Worlds spot, but who knows with that situation, too. I think what helps his cause is that those three men right behind him don't really have a stellar international record to boost themselves that far over him, and the fact that he did win the LP here.

I'd send Liam.

I made this comment in the pbp thread, but if I was Camden, I'd get on the plane to NYC and pick up an extra class at Columbia this semester if there's still time and focus on getting as many credits in now so that he can graduate in May 2024 rather than December 2024. That will give him two full seasons with Raf, one of which is the next Olympic season.

I might feel differently if Camden hadn't screwed up in both segments at Nats. Liam at least had a clean SP, and after the first two bad jumping passes got his head on straight and skated the rest of his FS cleanly. Camden gave us #elegantpoplutz+#elegantpopaxel in the 2nd half, among other errors in his FS.

 

[Wyliefan]

Worlds and 4CC team announcement:

https://twitter.com/fsonline/status/1619875071975366656?t=nsrnodN1xRUNkPWnahrHRg&s=19

 

[Karen-W]

Pulkinen is first alt to Worlds, behind a pending Torgashev.

Naumov, Ma, Kapeikis to 4CC.

Jeez. USFS playing favorites again. At least they got the team right for 4CCs, IMO.

 

[clairecloutier]

Since Camden isn't an alternate for 4CCs, I'd guess that means he declined it to focus on school.

P.S. I'm glad that Torgashev got the Worlds spot, pending minimums.

 

[Karen-W]

Oh! I didn't realize Mindra had the 4CCs TES mins! Glad to see he got the 3rd alt spot for that, but really, USFS... Tomoki as 1st alt? Oy. These alternate assignments are a study in USFS favoritism at its worst.

 

[Karen-W]

Copying them out for anyone who doesn't want to go on Twitter:

Worlds
Men: Jason Brown, Ilia Malinin, Andrew Torgashev*
alt 1: Camden Pulkinen, 2: Maxim Naumov, 3: Jimmy Ma
*pending ISU tech minimums

4CCs
Men: Liam Kapeikis, Jimmy Ma, Maxim Naumov
alt 1: Tomoki Hiwatashi, 2: Yaroslav Paniot, 3: Samuel Mindra

 

[beckab81]

Jeez. USFS playing favorites again. At least they got the team right for 4CCs, IMO.

They literally followed the pre-established criteria. Not sure why you’re so against Camden getting anything this year. Yes, he didn’t have a good nationals, but he was the clear 2nd place man to Malinin all fall.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Lol. I'm dying at Jackie Wong trying to justify an any assignment or 1st alternate position for Camden. The USFS just assigned Zingas/Kolesnik with ONE Challenger result and 4th at Nats to be alternates to both Worlds & 4CCs over vastly more experienced teams. And we saw what happened with Pairs. I'm really going to be shocked if the #3 Worlds spot goes to anyone but Torgashev, and if Camden gets anything beyond a 4CCs alternate spot.

Welp, Jackie wasn't wrong about what USFSA would do as far as 1st alternate.

 

[alexikeguchi]

I'm fine with those picks. This is the first year of an Olympic cycle with multiple athletes retired or on indefinite hiatus, so I don't see that "body of work" should be a particularly important factor. Realistically, Ilia and Jason will get three spots, so the third man won't really matter; it's not like the Olympic year when the third spot would need to be verified if the lowest team member doesn't make the free skate. Is Torgashev not being sent to 4CC for minimums because he doesn't even have minimums for that? I honestly don't recall either him or Naumov competing internationally for the past three years, but I don't really follow senior Bs or even Challenger Series.

 

[tony]

I'm fine with those picks. This is the first year of an Olympic cycle with multiple athletes retired or on indefinite hiatus, so I don't see that "body of work" should be a particularly important factor. Realistically, Ilia and Jason will get three spots, so the third man won't really matter; it's not like the Olympic year when the third spot would need to be verified if the lowest team member doesn't make the free skate. Is Torgashev not being sent to 4CC for minimums because he doesn't even have minimums for that? I honestly don't recall either him or Naumov competing internationally for the past three years, but I don't really follow senior Bs or even Challenger Series.

Torgashev has no international experience on the senior level since late 2019 - so no scores at all.

 

[Karen-W]

They literally followed the pre-established criteria. Not sure why you’re so against Camden getting anything this year. Yes, he didn’t have a good nationals, but he was the clear 2nd place man to Malinin all fall.

Because he really hasn't had a great fall. None of these guys after Malinin have been setting the world on fire or even been all that consistent. I mean, hopefully it won't matter because Torgashev earns the TES mins and neither Ilia nor Jason wind up injured in the next two months.

 

[Rukia]

Do we need to start a lighting candles now for Andrew to get his mins? I'll do what needs to be done.

 

[rfisher]

I'm beyond thrilled for both Andrew and Max. It's up to them to make the most of the opportunity. I suspect there are some celebrations going on tonight.

 

[Karen-W]

Do we need to start a lighting candles now for Andrew to get his mins? I'll do what needs to be done.

I'll join you in the prayer circle. I mean, we managed to get CarPon to 4CCs, so I think we might have some influence if we all channel our powers for good together.

 

[Trillian]

P.S. I'm glad that Torgashev got the Worlds spot, pending minimums.

Me too. Thrilled I was wrong about that one, honestly.

Do we need to start a lighting candles now for Andrew to get his mins? I'll do what needs to be done.

For who to get his what

(I’m going with the don’t-even-let-the-skategods-hear-us-talking-about-it strategy.)

 

[Evgeniafan]

I'm beyond thrilled for both Andrew and Max. It's up to them to make the most of the opportunity

I'm thrilled for them, and for the US, we will have strong men for the Grand Prix, next year.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm thrilled for them, and for the US, we will have strong men for the Grand Prix, next year.

We could have some really great men on the GP next year, especially with Robert Yampolsky moving up (he's 18 now) and possibly Lucas Broussard too.

Malinin, Torgashev, Naumov, Kapeikis, Yampolsky, Broussard are all so young, then there's Ma, Pulkinen, Paniot and Hiwatashi...

 

[haribobo]

I think its really nice that 6 different men get the Worlds and 4CC (that part was sort of a coincidence) but having 6 different alternates is a beautiful thing. I love seeing Mindra on there as an alternate. That means something to these skaters even as 3rd alternate so I am glad.

Fantastic job by the committee all the way around this year. And I don't always feel that way...

 

[Karen-W]

Thinking about it a bit, I'd almost be tempted, if I was the USFS, to put Torgashev on the plane to Bavarian Open this week and let him try for the TES mins while he's clearly skating "hot". Waiting until Challenge Cup is going to put a tremendous amount of pressure on him, whereas if he goes this next week and gets them then he can go back home and spend the next 6 weeks prepping for Worlds.

 

[Rukia]

For who to get his what

(I’m going with the don’t-even-let-the-skategods-hear-us-talking-about-it strategy.)

Valid strategy if we approach this from all angles we can get it done

 

[jlai]

Thinking about it a bit, I'd almost be tempted, if I was the USFS, to put Torgashev on the plane to Bavarian Open this week and let him try for the TES mins while he's clearly skating "hot". Waiting until Challenge Cup is going to put a tremendous amount of pressure on him, whereas if he goes this next week and gets them then he can go back home and spend the next 6 weeks prepping for Worlds.

Surely the entry deadlines has passed?

 

[rfisher]

Max, Andrew and Jimmy all have the jump layout to be competitive with the Japanese and European men. Medalists in both events will really come down to which skaters are clean or at least cleanest. All the top contenders can do what they plan. It's going to be exciting to see who can deliver.

 

[Karen-W]

Surely the entry deadlines has passed?

Oh, no doubt, but there are only 9 men entered and I doubt the German fed would say no if the USFS asked. That's assuming Torgashev would rather compete next week and make the attempt. He might not want to do that though.

 

[Allskate]

They literally followed the pre-established criteria. Not sure why you’re so against Camden getting anything this year. Yes, he didn’t have a good nationals, but he was the clear 2nd place man to Malinin all fall.

Exactly. Jackie listed all the criteria and showed how they applied. That was it. Camden is not a model of consistency, but it's not like those other guys are either. He might not have had great showings at his GP events, but he finished higher than Ma at Skate Canada and scored better in his events than the others (besides Ilia), plus the Worlds 5th place finish.

If you look only at the Nationals placements, then someone else should be first alternate. But the other criteria are there, and Jackie simply laid out how they apply in these circumstances.

 

[greenapple]

Given that Torgashev has not competed for such a long time, that he won the free skate over a field of skaters who have had numerous international opportunities while he sat at home recuperating, validates his assignment to the World team.

Samuel Mindra was a revelation. Can't wait to see more from him!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Worlds and 4CC team announcement:

https://twitter.com/fsonline/status/1619875071975366656?t=nsrnodN1xRUNkPWnahrHRg&s=19

I kind of like the idea of the juniors camp, how very woman’s gymnastics of them