U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[alexikeguchi]

Wow Vincent! He crushed his FS and will be a huge podium threat for the Olympics if he repeats his performances from Nebelhorn. I can't imagine he wouldn't be selected even with a fourth place finish at Nationals given the impressive boost he just gave to his BOW, but if he keeps skating like this, he should be top 2. The performance quality in both his SP and FS is also leaps and bounds beyond what he did in previous seasons, so it's not even only about the jumps. I really enjoyed watching him this competition.

 

[VGThuy]

Wow Vincent! He crushed his FS and will be a huge podium threat for the Olympics if he repeats his performances from Nebelhorn. I can't imagine he wouldn't be selected even with a fourth place finish at Nationals given the impressive boost he just gave to his BOW, but if he keeps skating like this, he should be top 2. The performance quality in both his SP and FS is also leaps and bounds beyond what he did in previous seasons, so it's not even only about the jumps. I really enjoyed watching him this competition.

IF he cleans up his Qs (which is much more doable than when he ended cleaning up some of his > and >>s in earlier seasons) by Nationals/Olympics, he'll be a huge force to reckon with. Mens will be a blood bath because a lot of men are medal worthy and can win a medal if they are able to clean up on what they need to work on as well.

 

[wickedwitch]

I've been super critical regarding Vincent's PCS in the past, so I feel obligated to post how much he's impressed me this season. I genuinely enjoy watching him skate, and have rewatched several of his performances. I figured he could improve, because pretty much everyone who puts in the effort improves a little, but he's gotten to the point where he may genuinely be my favorite of the real medal contenders for the podium at the OG. (Because no, I don't count Kolyada as medal contender.)

Now he just needs to clean up his jump landings.

 

[VGThuy]

I personally wouldn't mind a few upsets with both Kagiyama and Vincent spoiling and achieving higher than expectations throughout the season. Still rooting for Nathan at the Olympics even though Kagiyama has become my favorite among the medal contenders, I think.

 

[puppylover]

IF he cleans up his Qs (which is much more doable than when he ended cleaning up some of his > and >>s in earlier seasons)

He didn't clean them up so much as the latest rule change with the invention of the q rule benefits him hugely (imagine what his Nebelhorn protocol would've looked like two seasons ago).

 

[Tahuu]

The next question is if Ilia Malinin could beat Jason for that 3rd Olympic spot.

 

[Karen-W]

The next question is if Ilia Malinin could beat Jason for that 3rd Olympic spot.

Hard to say yet. He was messy in the FS at his first JGP and we haven't seen Jason yet this season.

 

[VGThuy]

He didn't clean them up so much as the latest rule change with the invention of the q rule benefits him hugely (imagine what his Nebelhorn protocol would've looked like two seasons ago).

Well, he did clean them up at the Olympics where he got less > than he did earlier in the season. 2018 Worlds LP was a bust for him but his SP was clean enough to place third there. Same story with his 2019 Worlds LP (where he got two ">" out of 11 jumping elements - meaning 9 of his jumps were called clean including two quads and World Team Trophy (... and that was when the system was just changed to be harsher on the 45 degree rule and the ISU had not invented the "Q" yet) compared to earlier comps during those two seasons where he was more littered with ">"s.

No reason to think he can't have more quads called cleaned as the season progresses. He's done it multiple seasons already.

 

[Rukia]

I personally wouldn't mind a few upsets with both Kagiyama and Vincent spoiling and achieving higher than expectations throughout the season. Still rooting for Nathan at the Olympics even though Kagiyama has become my favorite among the medal contenders, I think.

We are seriously spoiled in the men's event. I want Nathan to win, but I also wouldn't mind any number of other skaters upsetting if their skates merit it (Kagiyama being top of that list).

 

[Tahuu]

Hard to say yet. He was messy in the FS at his first JGP and we haven't seen Jason yet this season.

In last week’s club competition, Ilia did 2 quad short (96.13) and 2 quad long (162.99) for 263.05. By Nationals he could do a 4-5 quad long and be in top 3. If he could win JGPF he would position himself well for that 3rd spot.

SP https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2021/30123/SEGM004.html

FS

2021 Falling Leaves

Event Results for 2021 Falling Leaves

ijs.usfigureskating.org

 

[skateboy]

In last week’s club competition, Ilia did 2 quad short (96.13) and 2 quad long (162.99) for 263.05. By Nationals he could do a 4-5 quad long and be in top 3. If he could win JGPF he would position himself well for that 3rd spot.

SP https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2021/30123/SEGM004.html

FS

2021 Falling Leaves

Event Results for 2021 Falling Leaves

ijs.usfigureskating.org

Unless more experienced skaters really bomb, I don't think Ilia has the PCS to get into the top 3.

 

[Tahuu]

Unless more experienced skaters really bomb, I don't think Ilia has the PCS to get into the top 3.

With 2 more quads and current mid 7 PCS, Ilia already can surpass Jason’s PB. He doesn’t need top guys to bomb to get on top 3. He has Lz, F, S,T and likely 5 quads.

 

[skateboy]

With 2 more quads and current mid 7 PCS, Ilia already can surpass Jason’s PB. He doesn’t need top guys to bomb to get on top 3. He has Lz, F, S,T and likely 5 quads.

The judges have a soft spot for Jason. He would have to bomb the season for someone to overtake him for the Oly team.

 

[Vagabond]

In last week’s club competition, Ilia did 2 quad short (96.13) and 2 quad long (162.99) for 263.05. By Nationals he could do a 4-5 quad long and be in top 3. If he could win JGPF he would position himself well for that 3rd spot

Unless more experienced skaters really bomb, I don't think Ilia has the PCS to get into the top 3.

Jason Brown's highest score at U.S. Nationals was 292.88 two seasons ago, but his next highest score was 276.92 last season. That's within Malinin's reach.

 

[Sylvia]

In last week’s club competition, Ilia did 2 quad short (96.13) and 2 quad long (162.99) for 263.05.

Great scores, but it was a club competition without any other competitors. I assume Malinin will get an ISU Challenger Series event later this fall... let's see how he does when he makes his senior international debut.

ETA: Malinin's 2nd JGP is coming up in Linz, Austria (Oct. 6-9) - GO Ilia!

 

[Willin]

I think the other thing to note about Jason is that USFS tends to include a good fan favorite in their third spot. Jason is definitely a fan favorite and even with 0 quads he could get them a good placement in the team SP while saving Nathan and Vincent some energy. He finishes in the top 10 at worlds and does well on the GP. He's also very consistent. On the other hand, USFS also likes to send a possible future star. I think the GP and Nationals will tell the tale.

 

[Sylvia]

I'm going to beat Sylvia to it and post this link to an article about Jacob Sanchez. He lives in my county so I have a special interest in him (plus he's a delightful skater).

Glad you did, thanks @missing! From the 9/16 Fan Zone article: "As Sanchez continues to be a role model for Latino skaters, he has ambitious goals for himself. In the short term, Sanchez hopes to become a part of Team USA and receive an international assignment."
Sanchez officially has been assigned to a JGP and his first-ever international (confirmed 9/21 on USFS' International Assignments page) -- he'll travel to Gdansk, Poland with Will Annis next week.

Matthew Nielsen won the bronze medal today at JGP #5 in Ljubljana, Slovenia by ONE point! He scored 192.38 total -- 3rd in SP, 4th in FS, landing 5 triples (only element with negative GOE on his protocol was his combo of 3Lz(3turn)+3T hand down): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VptKYkb-Fb8
I recall seeing him land 3A in practice clips he's shared in the past -- hopefully he will go for the jump in competition soon.

 

[Sylvia]

ISU SB total scores for the top 6 U.S. men so far this international season (updated today):

1 Vincent ZHOU USA ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2021 - OWG Qualifying 24/09/2021 284.23 S [gold]
15 Ilia MALININ USA ISU JGP Courchevel 2021 21/08/2021 214.64 J [gold]
16 Tomoki HIWATASHI USA ISU CS Lombardia Trophy 2021 12/09/2021 213.11 S [5th]
19 William ANNIS USA ISU JGP Kosice 2021 03/09/2021 204.60 J [bronze]
27 Lucas BROUSSARD USA ISU JGP Krasnoyarsk 2021 17/09/2021 198.77 J [silver in Courchevel 1, scored 192.31]
35 Matthew NIELSEN USA ISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 2021 24/09/2021 192.38 J [bronze]

Total scores from Senior Bs this season that don't count for ISU SB:

U.S. International Classic - top 4 U.S. men:
Jimmy MA 233.58 (silver) - may his consistency continue!
Eric SJOBERG 221.12 (bronze)
Camden PULKINEN 208.99 (4th)
Maxim NAUMOV 207.39 (6th)

Cranberry Cup International in mid-August - top 4 U.S. men:
Vincent ZHOU 288.26 (gold)
Jimmy MA 230.59 (silver)
Maxim NAUMOV 223.15 (bronze)
Yaroslav PANIOT 210.84 (4th)

ETA - 3 ISU Challengers left to be assigned:
CS Cup of Austria, Nov. 11-14, 2021
CS Warsaw Cup, Nov. 18-21, 2021
CS Golden Spin of Zagreb, Dec. 8-11, 2021

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

I anticipate Nathan,Vincent and Jason will be the strongest American mens Olympics team since 1956.

-BB

 

[Vagabond]

USFS tends to include a good fan favorite in their third spot.

While this is understandable (assuming that there is a third spo)t, I see it as exactly the problem with USFS's piece Body of Work standards. Imagine what the uproar would be if the USA Track & Field sent a fan favorite and an up-and-coming runner to the Olympics instead of the second and third finishers as the qualifying competition.

 

[Sylvia]

... USFS tends to include a good fan favorite in their third spot. ... On the other hand, USFS also likes to send a possible future star. I think the GP and Nationals will tell the tale.

ICYMI, GSD thread on USFS' 2022 Olympic selection criteria: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/usfs-athlete-selection-procedures-for-2022-olympics.108590/

 

[olympic]

Back to Vincent, I saw that Shin Amano was the Tech Specialist for the Men's event. If Vincent can escape with 'q' from Shin, then he's in good shape! Only 1 UR.

ETA - On to Jason, it would be nice to see him land a quad. I think he would stay ahead of Ilia with a decent quad. Alas, it's been so elusive.

 

[wickedwitch]

Back to Vincent, I saw that Shin Amano was the Tech Specialist for the Men's event. If Vincent can escape with 'q' from Shin, then he's in good shape! Only 1 UR.

ETA - On to Jason, it would be nice to see him land a quad. I think he would stay ahead of Ilia with a decent quad. Alas, it's been so elusive.

I don't think Jason needs a quad to beat Ilia -- although it might be close -- but he'll need to be perfect otherwise. AKA he needs to hit all three 3As. He's clearly capable of that, but he won't have much room for error without a quad. And as much as I'm hoping otherwise, I don't expect him to land a quad.

 

[barbk]

While this is understandable (assuming that there is a third spo)t, I see it as exactly the problem with USFS's piece Body of Work standards. Imagine what the uproar would be if the USA Track & Field sent a fan favorite and an up-and-coming runner to the Olympics instead of the second and third finishers as the qualifying competition.

Fan favorite aside, Jason has had a rather remarkable record of doing well at major competitions. He ends up with better scores than many, many guys with quads. Not always on the podium, but a strength - especially if they chose to use him for the team SP.

 

[olympic]

Fan favorite aside, Jason has had a rather remarkable record of doing well at major competitions. He ends up with better scores than many, many guys with quads. Not always on the podium, but a strength - especially if they chose to use him for the team SP.

IDK. I think if Vincent continues this way, the team event may include Nathan and Vincent

 

[Karen-W]

IDK. I think if Vincent continues this way, the team event may include Nathan and Vincent

Yup. Nathan for the SP and Vincent for the FS.

 

[Tavi]

Right now the schedule for men is as follows:

Feb 4 Team Event SP
Feb 7 Team Event FS
Feb 8 Individual SP
Feb 10 Individual FS

Frankly, I can see a scenario where Nathan, who is going for gold in individual, bows out of the team event entirely. And if Vincent thinks he can compete for silver or bronze in the individual, I can’t see him wanting to do the team event FS.

 

[skatingguy]

Right now the schedule for men is as follows:

Feb 4 Team Event SP
Feb 7 Team Event FS
Feb 8 Individual SP
Feb 10 Individual FS

Frankly, I can see a scenario where Nathan, who is going for gold in individual, bows out of the team event entirely. And if Vincent thinks he can compete for silver or bronze in the individual, I can’t see him wanting to do the team event FS.

Weren't US skaters required to do the team event in the past, and it was just a matter of if they wanted to do both segments or only one? The disciplines are ranked based on last year's World Championships - so Men, Dance, Ladies, Pairs - and so presumably Nathan will be given first choice, and then whoever finishes 2nd at US Nationals will either get the short or the free skate, or possibly, but unlikely neither, depending on what Nathan decides.

 

[Karen-W]

Right now the schedule for men is as follows:

Feb 4 Team Event SP
Feb 7 Team Event FS
Feb 8 Individual SP
Feb 10 Individual FS

Frankly, I can see a scenario where Nathan, who is going for gold in individual, bows out of the team event entirely. And if Vincent thinks he can compete for silver or bronze in the individual, I can’t see him wanting to do the team event FS.

And the USFS Olympic team selection doc makes it clear that if they think assigning one skater to one portion of the team event will improve their chances of winning, then they can disregard the skater's preference sheet. Nathan probably has enough pull to withdraw from the team event entirely but if the USFS thinks putting Vincent in the FS will give them the points necessary to beat Russia for gold, he might not have a choice in the matter. Vincent can win the FS against anyone else that will be put in for the FS by Japan, Russia, Canada or Italy, Jason can't. Plain and simple.

 

[euterpe]

Vincent has improved in so many ways besides better-rotated jumps. His spins are spectacular, and he skates with such passion!