U.S. Ladies [#18]: These Boots Are Made for Skating

[meggonzo]

So is the UR a returning fad for US ladies. It is sooo 2008.

When has it not been a fad?

 

[Coco]

I worry it is a fad for the callers.

Some of those jumps were UR, but some looked fully rotated.

 

[Bellanca]

I worry it is a fad for the callers.

Some of those jumps were UR, but some looked fully rotated.

ITA! In Mirai's case, definitely.

ETA: It's also a way to control a comp or an outcome, if desired. Which is pure B.S. ... and nothing new. It's unacceptable.

 

[alchemy void]

When has it not been a fad?

Another fad that never goes out of style: Mirai fans complaining about underrotations.

I think all the URs she got called for were quite clear, even in real time, with the exception of the 3f3t.

Even with the clear rotation issues, she had a good skate, landed a clean 3a, finished second, and beat Chen!

But the fact remains that even a generous and/or blind tech panel still wouldn't have gotten her close to Honda.

 

[olympic]

When has it not been a fad?

I was thinking of those bright moments in time when AW first went to John Nicks and cleaned up her jumps and spins around 2012, or when GG was on a brief, upward trajectory, or Polina when she burst onto the senior scene.

ETA - I thought to myself: Here is a cluster of ladies coming to the fore and that it would have an exponential on the other US ladies. Unfortunately, it hasn't really turned out that way

 

[Coco]

Another fad that never goes out of style: Mirai fans complaining about underrotations.

I think all the URs she got called for were quite clear, even in real time, with the exception of the 3f3t.

Yet another fad...people complaining about us complaining while acknowledging there is some legitimacy to the complaints

 

[chapis]

They do, but they don't really do much with it and most skaters skate through faster pieces. However, La La Land has a lot of beat and rhythm to it that's really faster than what most skaters use and they can't skate through it as easy as they could with other pieces. I like Ashley but her speed and power wouldn't match it plus she needs a lot of breathing space for the LP. Even the more dramatic pieces in the epilogue need that sort of speed and power to match the more sweeping and uplifting parts of the music. Chock/Bates have had issues keeping up to "Under Pressure" during their footwork sequences throughout last season as well and that was a bit slower. It's just my feeling on it.

I think Mao could do a good job with this soundtrack, her step seq are always so matching with the music https://youtu.be/IxT0SwHZoRk?t=167, https://youtu.be/TjEoBfmn1SU?t=253, in The Ice Taka Kozuka did her step seq from her olympic LP and he said that it was difficult and exhausting, he was surpised that Mao did it at the end of the program. And Kozuka´s skating skills are great.

 

[Jarrett]

Another fad that never goes out of style: Mirai fans complaining about underrotations.

I think all the URs she got called for were quite clear, even in real time, with the exception of the 3f3t.

Even with the clear rotation issues, she had a good skate, landed a clean 3a, finished second, and beat Chen!

But the fact remains that even a generous and/or blind tech panel still wouldn't have gotten her close to Honda.

I agree that all the under rotation calls were very clear except for the triple/triple which I bet why the review took so long. I didn't agree with the call.

 

[A.H.Black]

Not up on the ladies thread, but can someone tell me if Karen did her own choreography for her Carmen Free program.

 

[Cleo1782]

Another fad that never goes out of style: Mirai fans complaining about underrotations.

I think all the URs she got called for were quite clear, even in real time, with the exception of the 3f3t.

Even with the clear rotation issues, she had a good skate, landed a clean 3a, finished second, and beat Chen!

But the fact remains that even a generous and/or blind tech panel still wouldn't have gotten her close to Honda.

I would agree. The only jump that I would have given Mirai that the tech panel didn't is the 3ft3toe-maybe. Everything else was a pretty clearly UR as were Karen's jumps. While Mariah made numerous mistakes her jumps looked fairly rotated and what Marin did was called correctly obviously. It's a shame because Mirai looked so stellar in practice-even though this was a decent skate. I really think its a mental thing with her unfortunately because going by practice I would have thought it would have been closer between her and Marin. Karen and Mariah looked about the same as they did in the competition as they did in practice honestly.

 

[DimaToe]

I actually thought that the < in Nagasu's 3T was obvious in real time TBH. Looking at the quality of skates, I think Tennell would have been mid (maybe) high 120's in the LP but would have been a lot closer to Honda than Nagasu and Chen managed to get, things just got much more for the U.S. ladies

 

[Tinami Amori]

I find it logistically VERY odd, that Nagasu is managing a difficult 3A, and U-rotating her regular 3x jumps. Should not one first manage the "norms" and then go for "unusual"?

 

[Jarrett]

I find it logistically VERY odd, that Nagasu is managing a difficult 3A, and U-rotating her regular 3x jumps. Should not one first manage the "norms" and then go for "unusual"?

You think she can't do the norms in practice or warm up? She does without a problem. You could see how tense she was during the program which looks like it causes the underrotating. I dont know if that will ever change but she is challenging herself to do what other can't and won't even attempt. I mean during her medal bows she had more spark and elegance than the entire LP. Sigh.

 

[Tinami Amori]

You think she can't do the norms in practice or warm up? She does without a problem. You could see how tense she was during the program which looks like it causes the underrotating.

She can land regular triples, true. But often in competition, as yesterday, she under-rotates. I just think that it is best to secure the "basics" first, 100%, and then go to the next level. That said, i am hopping Nagasu wins US Nationals... a girl can hope.....

 

[mag]

Not up on the ladies thread, but can someone tell me if Karen did her own choreography for her Carmen Free program.

I believe Mark Pillay did both her short and her long.

 

[mag]

I would like to see a cumulative penalty for < and << in the same fashion as the new cumulative penalty for falls. It seems drastically unfair to double penalize someone who falls on a fully rotated triple while someone who can cheat essentially all their triples by up to half a rotation, and there only penalty is 70% base value and a bit of negative GOE. We are going to see A LOT more cheated jumps as skaters do anything to avoid the now over the top fall deductions.

 

[asdf334]

So I'm guessing Ashley is trying to hang on and save herself for the big competitions. I wish her all the best. No complaints for me that she's going back to MR and HHCC. Those are two of the best programs of the quad, so - to me - it's not like when other skaters return to old programs. Glad she's putting her energy into perfecting her programs instead of learning new ones.

In all honesty, a few times in the past Ashley has said I love X program and been all rainbows and unicorns only to not have it work out. Not surprising if it may have been as simple as that for La La Land.

Use the slo-mo option on youtube. The flip was UR also, but wasn't called.

It was marked as UR on the protocol, no?

To see Chen get URs on her jumps is so frustrating given the air time- not saying the calls aren't deserved, just that she should be more than capable of getting them fully rotated.

 

[Cleo1782]

She can land regular triples, true. But often in competition, as yesterday, she under-rotates. I just think that it is best to secure the "basics" first, 100%, and then go to the next level. That said, i am hopping Nagasu wins US Nationals... a girl can hope.....

I would actually agree with this and did until I watched her practice. She lands that 3A so often she might as well put it in the program. She is most likely to get UR's no matter what with the way she competes so she really has nothing to lose since she generally executes most her triples in practice without UR anyhow.

 

[olympic]

I'm willing to cut Mirai a little slack at this point in the season. The LP yesterday was the closest she has come to a clean 3A, only to have problems w/ UR on the other jumps. I think she is trying to balance her emotions in that minefield of a program that she is attempting, and it may make her skating glitchy for the moment. Truer tests will be upon us this Fall.

 

[Spun Silver]

Because she still scares people in that she hasn't quite shaken off the reputation of being inconsistent, and she still has UR issues at times in the back end of her 3/3. Plus, she doesn't Tano/Rippon and backload and do the most transitions the way Eteri has Med/Zagitova doing.

One Day Later: point taken. :/

 

[Coco]

I would like to see a cumulative penalty for < and << in the same fashion as the new cumulative penalty for falls. It seems drastically unfair to double penalize someone who falls on a fully rotated triple while someone who can cheat essentially all their triples by up to half a rotation, and there only penalty is 70% base value and a bit of negative GOE. We are going to see A LOT more cheated jumps as skaters do anything to avoid the now over the top fall deductions.

There are two sides to every argument, I suppose. Since a fall is way more disruptive than an underrotation, I have no issue with how this COP addresses each mistake.

 

[RoseRed]

I actually thought that the < in Nagasu's 3T was obvious in real time TBH. Looking at the quality of skates, I think Tennell would have been mid (maybe) high 120's in the LP but would have been a lot closer to Honda than Nagasu and Chen managed to get, things just got much more for the U.S. ladies

She certainly has had a consistent start to the season, with a couple of really solid summer comps and then her performance at Lombardia.

 

[kwanfan1818]

There are a number of Men who pretty much skipped 3A or never got the jump down, but did/do stellar quads. There are also jumps that are easier/preferred by the skaters, especially since they tend to favor edge vs. to jumps. Koster did difficult 3/3's early in her career, but I would cover my eyes when she did 2A.

Also, being one of the few to do the jump -- have there been even 10 women doing 3A in competition -- gets a lot of attention, and Zakrajsek was never one to pass up a good visual bite PR opportunity.

 

[Frida80]

There are a number of Men who pretty much skipped 3A or never got the jump down, but did/do stellar quads. There are also jumps that are easier/preferred by the skaters, especially since they tend to favor edge vs. to jumps. Koster did difficult 3/3's early in her career, but I would cover my eyes when she did 2A.

Also, being one of the few to do the jump -- have there been even 10 women doing 3A in competition -- gets a lot of attention, and Zakrajsek was never one to pass up a good visual bite PR opportunity.

Actually Mirai is the eighth person to land a 3A in competition. And Miki Ando got her 4S ratitfied. Very small group.

 

[Spun Silver]

Actually Mirai is the eighth person to land a 3A in competition. And Miki Ando got her 4S ratitfied. Very small group.

It seems she would be the 9th woman. Is that correct?

"Only eight female figure skaters have done a triple Axel in competition: Midori Ito (the first one to do it), Tonya Harding, Yukari Nakano, Ludmila Nelidina, Mao Asada (the first one to land three triple Axels in one competition), Kimmie Meissner, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva and Rika Kihira."
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_jump

Hopefully this entry will be updated soon!

 

[kwanfan1818]

Did Meissner ever get one ratified in international competition?

 

[VGThuy]

Did Meissner ever get one ratified in international competition?

I don't think she ever tried in international competition, but I could be wrong.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Midori Ito (the first one to do it), Tonya Harding, Yukari Nakano, Ludmila Nelidina, Mao Asada (the first one to land three triple Axels in one competition), Kimmie Meissner, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva and Rika Kihira."

I ALWAYS wondered what happened to Ludmila.. I only remember her for one season......

 

[Marco]

I will say I am glad Mariah went back to last season's short. I loved it. The WWS edit however, sounds horrible.

Karen is looking good except the flip edge looks worse again. I am overall less worried about her having an up and down season like last season. IMO she has a high chance of making PC Olympics.

When Mirai focuses on just the one jump, everything else is lost. The other triples suffered and so did the whole program. Miss Saigon is a nice vehicle for her and I hope she can finally show some presence again. So far it's just her going through the motions. Given all the jump issues, I am surprised she even got the score she did, that close to Honda and actually over Chen.

 

[Spun Silver]

Did Meissner ever get one ratified in international competition?

She only ever landed one, at 2005 Nationals, AFAIK.