U.S. Ladies [#18]: These Boots Are Made for Skating

[AxelAnnie]

Caroline looked gorgeous. Good for her!

 

[ZilphaK]

And since you seem to know so much about the remedy, please break down what 'all the standard exercises' are to correct URs and two-footing.

I once saw a video of Audrey Weisiger offering a young skater $100 if she wouldn't put a hand down on the next 3S she was practicing. Worked like a charm. I get the feeling URs and 2footing in a skater who can also land fully rotated are much of a mind trick, as well as re-learning muscle memory. URs are probably more of a muscle memory issue; 2footing a confidence thing. No idea how it would be fixed. I'm watching a few different kids now on the verge of landing some big triples...they are right there, and you'd think "just hold it a split second longer" would be easy to do, but I guess that split second is the difference between facing fears and freak out.

Mirai is a powerful jumper and doesn't need a really tight body position in the air. Her ankles aren't tight together and she almost has a low wrap. But I wonder whether tightening the body position for more speed is too disruptive to the jump overall at this point (i.e. doing the jumps for such a long time). In any case, it must not be a super easy fix, or more skaters would be able to fix it.

 

[vesperholly]

Mirai is a powerful jumper and doesn't need a really tight body position in the air. Her ankles aren't tight together and she almost has a low wrap. But I wonder whether tightening the body position for more speed is too disruptive to the jump overall at this point (i.e. doing the jumps for such a long time). In any case, it must not be a super easy fix, or more skaters would be able to fix it.

I think that doing almost anything to Mirai's technique at this point would be seriously disruptive. Look at how many years it took Joannie Rochette to relearn a proper lutz.

 

[Coco]

Sooooo many US ladies skaters have issues with rotations, though. Leads me to think this is a coaching issues at the developmental levels.

ETA: clarified I meant ladies

 

[jlai]

Sooooo many US skaters have issues with rotations, though. Leads me to think this is a coaching issues at the developmental levels.

Exactly

 

[rosewood]

I once saw a video of Audrey Weisiger offering a young skater $100 if she wouldn't put a hand down on the next 3S she was practicing. Worked like a charm. I get the feeling URs and 2footing in a skater who can also land fully rotated are much of a mind trick, as well as re-learning muscle memory. URs are probably more of a muscle memory issue; 2footing a confidence thing. No idea how it would be fixed. I'm watching a few different kids now on the verge of landing some big triples...they are right there, and you'd think "just hold it a split second longer" would be easy to do, but I guess that split second is the difference between facing fears and freak out.

Mirai is a powerful jumper and doesn't need a really tight body position in the air. Her ankles aren't tight together and she almost has a low wrap. But I wonder whether tightening the body position for more speed is too disruptive to the jump overall at this point (i.e. doing the jumps for such a long time). In any case, it must not be a super easy fix, or more skaters would be able to fix it.

This.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

I think that doing almost anything to Mirai's technique at this point would be seriously disruptive. Look at how many years it took Joannie Rochette to relearn a proper lutz.

Not to be nitpicky, but I thought it took her about a year. Still, relearning jumps does not happen over night, it is a long processus indeed.

 

[vesperholly]

Sooooo many US ladies skaters have issues with rotations, though. Leads me to think this is a coaching issues at the developmental levels.

Flutzing is absolutely a coaching issue. No surprise that it came about after figures were removed. Rotations I wouldn't point the finger at all coaches because that can be a very skater-specific issue.

Not to be nitpicky, but I thought it took her about a year. Still, relearning jumps does not happen over night, it is a long processus indeed.

Yes, and it's very rare for skaters to relearn technique when they reach the elite level. That is undoing years of muscle memory.

 

[honey]

Not to be nitpicky, but I thought it took her about a year. Still, relearning jumps does not happen over night, it is a long processus indeed.

Joannie was still flutzing badly during the 2001/2002 season and then over the summer of 2002 they worked on fixing her lutz. It was very unreliable for her until the 2004/2005 season, so I would say it took her at least two seasons to fully fix that jump. I remember some very disastrous falls on doubles happening during the interim years and lots of two foots, splats etc...She might have landed one or two in those years, but it didn't become consistent for her until that 04/05 season. So much respect for them for fixing that, because they could easily just left it or bailed on the work to fix it given the problems it caused her.

 

[wickedwitch]

Why is Tessa Hong still going for the 0-7 layout? That should be reserved for those who can hit 2-5 and then 1-6 layouts. Hong hasn't hit either.

I don't think it's entirely or even mostly a physical thing -- I think it's mentally difficult to wait to do all those jumps. But like you have to build up physical strength, you have to also build up mental strength. She has not yet done that.

I was hoping this 0-7 nonsense would be done after she left Tom Z. I didn't believe Frank Carroll would put up with it. But yet....

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

. I didn't believe Frank Carroll would put up with it. But yet....

Tessa doesn't look happy out there. After the short Frank barely spoke to her. Today he made some effort to console her. Don't know her well, but she seems a little lost.

 

[Frida80]

With Tessa it goes far beyond backloading. This is the result from her free skate from two years ago.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1516/jgpesp2015/jgpesp2015_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

This is from last year.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/jgpest2016/jgpest2016_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

She still had <'s but I was optimistic that they could be fixed. But due to her injuries, it didn't happen.

Tessa has had the misfortune of missing nationals between intermediate to senior because of injuries and bad luck. She didn't get a chance to really learn how to compete and control her nerves. I think everyone is so enthralled by her the quality of component skating that they don't realize they need to go back to the basics with her.

This year I was irritated that her first competition was in August instead of June. She needs to compete more at club competitions. She needs to go back to a 3/4 format and focus on rotating her jumps and not popping them. She needs to develop her jumping skills, because everything else is there. She's still young, sp these problems are still fixable.

I'm also not liking the new forced smile in her programs.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Sooooo many US ladies skaters have issues with rotations, though. Leads me to think this is a coaching issues at the developmental levels.

ETA: clarified I meant ladies

That reminds me of watching old video of Alissa Czisny skating at the junior level. The jump technique was all over the place, and you sensed even then, she would have major problems later.

 

[Jammers]

Why is Tessa Hong still going for the 0-7 layout? That should be reserved for those who can hit 2-5 and then 1-6 layouts. Hong hasn't hit either.

I don't think it's entirely or even mostly a physical thing -- I think it's mentally difficult to wait to do all those jumps. But like you have to build up physical strength, you have to also build up mental strength. She has not yet done that.

I was hoping this 0-7 nonsense would be done after she left Tom Z. I didn't believe Frank Carroll would put up with it. But yet....

Yeah i'm surprised that Frank would allow have her do a 0-7 program. He's very traditional and i would think he would want a more balanced program.

 

[Willin]

TBH, Frank was a great coach, but he's wanted to retire for a while now. I think USFS just keeps making him take people on or convincing him that it would be a good idea to take a student or two. I would assume he's still putting in a ton of effort into the student(s?) he has, but after Gracie I wonder how much energy he really wants to put into telling skaters his opinion. (That is, if Tessa or her mom wants to go 0-7, how much energy would he spare to change that?)

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

TBH, Frank was a great coach, but he's wanted to retire for a while now.

I always had the impression Frank wanted to retire after the endless drama Christopher Bowman and his mom put him through.

 

[Willin]

@essence_of_soy I bet he threatened to! hahaha I thought that he was determined to finally retire after Michelle retired from skating, or was at least ready to wind down his career to part time. Then Mirai came along and he decided he wanted to coach her (until she left him). Then he sort of retired. Then he un-"retired" to coach Gracie and Carly and now I think he's just accepted his fate that he'll be forced to coach forever.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

@essence_of_soy ...now I think he's just accepted his fate that he'll be forced to coach forever.

It's almost like a form of ironic punishment. No one will ever compare to Linda, I guess.

 

[Jammers]

No one forces Frank to do anything. If he wants to retire then he should and be done with it.

 

[Willin]

@Jammers I don't think anyone's forcing him to coach. I more think that he wants to retire, sees someone with potential he likes (or has someone pointed his way) and decides to take them on as a "only student" because he wants to coach them, starts to dislike them for whatever reason, decides he'll retire and not coach again out of frustration, and then repeats the cycle.

I'd bet USFS's role in this is that they know he likes to coach the cream of the talent crop of young ladies skaters and will not say no if there's a skater with some kind of USFS endorsement/funding he thinks has potential, so they "recommend" him the skaters they think he'll want to coach.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Frank probably simultaneously wants to go away/retire and drop dead at an ice rink at the same time

I don't know much about his personal life but he's been part of skating for so long I wouldn't be surprised if he was a bit afraid of retiring. I mean when something has been your life for so long, and you poured so much of yourself blood sweat and tears, what do you do when its finally time for it to be all over? He tells himself he will slow down and retire but then sees someone with a little potential and latches on to them as an excuse so he doesn't have to even if he really wants to.

Again I don't know Frank but quitting after so long is hard for anybody. And deep down despite the grumpiness I bet he still loves coaching