Two of China's 2018 figure skating events will be moved: JGP #4 now in Vancouver; Grand Prix to Finland (confirmed)

Vagabond

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If you want a protest to have any effect, it helps to make it clear that you actually are protesting. :shuffle:

As mentioned in the other thread, the Chinese Federation's official explanation is that it want sto concentrate resources on preparing for the Olympics.
 

Marco

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They probably had to prove that they already had the resources before they were awarded the Olympics. This official explanation makes no sense.
 

Vagabond

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Neither does the alternate one suggested in this thread. But the official explanation makes the idea that the Chinese Federation's move is a protest implausible, to say the least.
 

Meteorlight

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Chinese skaters can't "duke it out off of home turf" if they don't get invited to the Grand Prix or if they have JGP host spots taken away. And that's what will happen.

Oh, and not paying the money to stage events -- particularly the JGP event, which the Chinese Federation had to ask for -- is going to make Overseas Chinese think long and hard about skating for China instead of representing their home countries at the 2022 Winter Olympic Games.

:violin:

Not like China ever really took advantage of all their slot allotments to give their skaters international opportunities/exposure in any case (except that one super bizarre case of sending an extra pair they didn't have a spot for and kind of getting away with it lol). Unless certain skaters already have the goods to get results (win/medal), they won't care otherwise (if non-medal contenders miss out on experience).

And when's the last time any overseas Chinese skater skated for China? China's never been into that (they even lost Misha Ge with the way their system works) - so that's a total non-issue. Sure, they might think differently to try to get a contender for the home Olympics, but nobody from other major Feds with a solid shot at making the Olympics for those countries would want to switch anyway.
 

Meteorlight

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If you want a protest to have any effect, it helps to make it clear that you actually are protesting. :shuffle:

As mentioned in the other thread, the Chinese Federation's official explanation is that it want sto concentrate resources on preparing for the Olympics.

Or perhaps they are just not advertising the protest to the whole world. ISU could be fully aware this move is a protest, and China is just giving the official release to let the ISU "save face" while they negotiate behind closed doors. My and some others' opinions is simply that the official explanation is too lame and unrealistic. If you don't want to question it, fine. Also, as I suggested in my other post, China benefits from positive domestic PR for doing this - some fans will be upset they can't go to live events, but the general public will be happy the government is standing up for its athletes/sports officials.

I only question if the ISU will want to/can play hardball on this one. What if China just decides to not host any more ISU events until the Olympics. Not sure they can do that, but that'd certainly be a way to keep competitors from feeling/testing out Olympic ice (not like the ISU will have a say in canceling the Olympics at this point) ...
 

Sasha'sSpins

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You really believe in "petty vindictiveness" where big events, pretty big money, and the interests of the next Olympic host are involved? Okay.

You may disrespect my opinions by putting it in quotes and giving it your own spin but I'm not going to bother arguing with you. You're not worth my time and this is hardly that important to me.

Best of luck to China with their decision, though I think it's going to come back and bite them in the butt.

On to the next.
 

misskarne

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If this is some form of temper tantrum, then I hope the ISU stands completely firm. Giving in to such a tantrum would set a dreadful precedent.

From my understanding, the adjudication in the speed skating at the Olympics was quite hard on most countries. And their judges have been suspended for justifiable cause; particularly in the case of the pairs judge who had been warned only a few weeks before and chose to deliberately flout that warning.
 

Marco

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Sure, they might think differently to try to get a contender for the home Olympics, but nobody from other major Feds with a solid shot at making the Olympics for those countries would want to switch anyway.

I don't think they are trying to hunt the current medal threats with an aim of individual medals, I think they are hunting decent enough ladies [and dance teams] from super competitive nations so that these fields do not drag them down in the team event. I think targeting US Chinese girls make sense because they have the slight build of a Chinese for the 3/3s and don't have to fight fiercely for the 3 spots.
 

berthesghost

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So China, a world leader with a booming eceonomy, a huge fan following for speed skating, and a growing popularity in figure skating needs the ISU, a dinosaur organization running a sport with dwindling public interest internationally? Didn’t the ISU give them COC because Europe couldn’t sustain 3 gps? And isn’t this Gp event now tbd because what? There’s a huge line of other countries dying to host it? Doesn’t seem like it.

If this really is about the Olys, either the official reason or the protest theory, the IOC will probably step in and tell ISU to get their shit together like they did in SLC. No way is the IOC losing $ because of infighting at ISU. JMHO.

And just to throw another log on the conspiracy theory fire, but if the recent scoring changes aren’t targeted toward keeping skaters like Jin down, what are they targeting?
 

RoseRed

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So China, a world leader with a booming eceonomy, a huge fan following for speed skating, and a growing popularity in figure skating needs the ISU, a dinosaur organization running a sport with dwindling public interest internationally? Didn’t the ISU give them COC because Europe couldn’t sustain 3 gps? And isn’t this Gp event now tbd because what? There’s a huge line of other countries dying to host it? Doesn’t seem like it.

If this really is about the Olys, either the official reason or the protest theory, the IOC will probably step in and tell ISU to get their shit together like they did in SLC. No way is the IOC losing $ because of infighting at ISU. JMHO.

And just to throw another log on the conspiracy theory fire, but if the recent scoring changes aren’t targeted toward keeping skaters like Jin down, what are they targeting?
You do understand that the ISU runs speed skating yes? Then this is a dumb point. China obviously cares about speed skating, so yes they do need a relationship with the ISU.

Salt Lake City was pretty different than this situation. Don't expect the same response.
 

berthesghost

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You do understand that the ISU runs speed skating yes? Then this is a dumb point. China obviously cares about speed skating, so yes they do need a relationship with the ISU.

Salt Lake City was pretty different than this situation. Don't expect the same response.
Despite decreasing public interest, figure skating remains the jewel in the crown of the winter Olys. It was FS events China pulled out of hosting, not SS. With the Olys in China, the IOC needs FS to remain popular, not be bogged down in scandal or infighting.

Despite decreasing popularity, FS is already a cross-over sport with broad international popularity. SS is not. Never has been. It’s Uber popular in certain countries like Holland and South Korea, but it’s very niche. The ISU starting drama with an oly host country with a growing SS fan base is not a smart move imo. If ticket sales tank at the Olys, it will hurt IOC and ISU more that it will hurt the CSF.

So again, China has a booming economy and an up swinging fan base, and SS is not exactly a marquee sport especially in other countries, but people think the CSF needs the ISU more than the ISU needs the CSF? Ok
 

el henry

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China evidently has a fanbase that feels put upon and wronged. China, for some reason, thinks that withdrawing its GP host makes this fan base feel better.

But, as we say in Philadelphia, this move only makes China look like a smacked rump. (we don't say rump)

If you are gonna say , "waaaah I'm gonna take my football and go home, that'll show you!" you better make dang sure no one else has a football. Or that they care about your football.

The economy of China, the number of skating fans in China, the composition of the ISU, all completely irrelevant. So??? Now China doesn't have a GP and some other country will. This move plays only to China's home audience and shows folks who think they've been wronged and wuzrobbed that we are strong strong strong and stand up for ourselves.:violin:

Hmmm, whose playbook does this remind me of????:unsure:
 

RoseRed

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Despite decreasing public interest, figure skating remains the jewel in the crown of the winter Olys. It was FS events China pulled out of hosting, not SS. With the Olys in China, the IOC needs FS to remain popular, not be bogged down in scandal or infighting.

Despite decreasing popularity, FS is already a cross-over sport with broad international popularity. SS is not. Never has been. It’s Uber popular in certain countries like Holland and South Korea, but it’s very niche. The ISU starting drama with an oly host country with a growing SS fan base is not a smart move imo. If ticket sales tank at the Olys, it will hurt IOC and ISU more that it will hurt the CSF.

So again, China has a booming economy and an up swinging fan base, and SS is not exactly a marquee sport especially in other countries, but people think the CSF needs the ISU more than the ISU needs the CSF? Ok
As far as I can tell, this is China starting drama, not the other way around. Seriously. If they are mostly upset about what happened in speed skating, then the ISU hasn't started any figure skating drama - that's all China.
 

feraina

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To be honest it sounds like a lose lose situation for all: CSA, ISU, and probably the fans too. Maybe this GP will just be canceled??
 

Sodium

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I still don't get why anyone thinks this is bad for the ISU. :confused:

My guess is if the motivation is political, then China wants to send the message that the ISU needs China, not the other way around. With such a short notice and since GP's probably aren't terribly profitable, China may be banking on the ISU having difficulty striking a deal with the Korean federation (and other prospective hosts) to take on the replacement events. The point of a protest is to inconvenience and disrupt, after all. If the ISU must go through a massive headache to work out event logistics and/or make major concessions to other federations in order to get them to agree to host events, they may become more receptive to quickly resolving whatever conflict they have with the Chinese federation.

Personal conspiracy theory: China is hoping for a situation where it turns out no one wanted to host the GP (or whatever important speed-skating events were planned). Then, the ISU finds itself in a difficult situation and acquiesces to Chinese demands, and, all of a sudden, China discovers an arena which isn't being renovated and announces the Cup of China is back on. Don't forget to say 谢谢, ISU! ;)
 

Tahuu

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My guess is if the motivation is political, then China wants to send the message that the ISU needs China, not the other way around. With such a short notice and since GP's probably aren't terribly profitable, China may be banking on the ISU having difficulty striking a deal with the Korean federation (and other prospective hosts) to take on the replacement events. The point of a protest is to inconvenience and disrupt, after all. If the ISU must go through a massive headache to work out event logistics and/or make major concessions to other federations in order to get them to agree to host events, they may become more receptive to quickly resolving whatever conflict they have with the Chinese federation.

Personal conspiracy theory: China is hoping for a situation where it turns out no one wanted to host the GP (or whatever important speed-skating events were planned). Then, the ISU finds itself in a difficult situation and acquiesces to Chinese demands, and, all of a sudden, China discovers an arena which isn't being renovated and announces the Cup of China is back on. Don't forget to say 谢谢, ISU! ;)

Nice! Russian tried the doping route and China goes the hostage route. Every route leads to Rome - get me the medals or else.
 

ivagall

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I still don't get why anyone thinks this is bad for the ISU. :confused:
It's end of June and ISU, as it looks like at this moment, still has no one to organize and host a GP event at the beginning of November. If you think that's a great situation/position for ISU then there is really nothing bad for them....
 

Carolla5501

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It's end of June and ISU, as it looks like at this moment, still has no one to organize and host a GP event at the beginning of November. If you think that's a great situation/position for ISU then there is really nothing bad for them....

This is not that unusual for them. They have had to move events quicker then this due to issues. Not having a location for one event in 4-5 months is not exactly creating hysteria at the ISU. (Heck they haven't even started selling tickets for most of the GP events. I don't think there's going to be a huge public backlash over this... most of the world won't even know if the GP event gets cancelled totally. If the Chinese are trying to prove "you can't exist without us" they may find that the ISU doesn't really miss them.

This is not an effective protests as it relates to Figure Skating. Maybe it will be more effective with speed skating, but one GP event that was not incredibly well attended.... not anything anyone is worried much about.
 

Vagabond

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This is not that unusual for them. They have had to move events quicker then this due to issues..
Exactly.

I strongly suspect, however, that Taiwan ("Chinese Taipei") would do everything necessary to stage the event if the ISU asked them to. :saint:

Plus, if the ISU wants to get really :EVILLE:, they can just cancel the third Grand Prix event. :barrel
 
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Madhatter

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Sui/Han and Jin are only guaranteed one event, right? If ISU really want to get bitchy, they could have other feds just not invite them for a second GP.
 

misskarne

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It's end of June and ISU, as it looks like at this moment, still has no one to organize and host a GP event at the beginning of November. If you think that's a great situation/position for ISU then there is really nothing bad for them....

Funny that people assume this. How are we to know that the ISU doesn't already have it sorted behind the scenes and they're just not announcing it yet? Perhaps it will be released with the assignments.
 

IceAlisa

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I heard a rumor that South Korea passed? Can anyone confirm? Sorry, I am not up on this development and may have missed a lot on this thread.
 

victorskid

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Funny that people assume this. How are we to know that the ISU doesn't already have it sorted behind the scenes and they're just not announcing it yet? Perhaps it will be released with the assignments.
That's what I was thinking. Wouldn't the naming of a GP host potentially impact the assignments?
 

alchemy void

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I find it hard to believe that South Korea would pass up an opportunity to host a Grand Prix event.

But it's kind of interesting to wonder what happens if South Korea passes, for whatever reason. Does anyone even want it? I'd assume whatever country volunteers and can provide a half-decent facility would get it: Taiwan comes to mind, just because they host 4CC so often. I also remember reading years ago Finland had some interest in showcasing Finlandia as a Grand Prix event. You could convert Finlandia into a Grand Prix event, two week break, then SKAM, Skate Canada, a week break, and CoR and NHK. That's not ideal, but actually not half bad.

I did check the ISU calendar to see if there were any Challenger/well-established B events occurring the weekend of Cup of China (November 2-4), thinking it might be easier to convert one of those events into a Grand Prix, but no such luck.
 

binbinwinwin

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They've had less a month's notice assuming they learned about it around the same time as us. Organizing a GP where they have to accommodate skaters, coaches, judges, officials, media and then the fans is probably a lot more work than we think. They'd also probably have to try and find a sponsor for it too, KSU is a small federation, they have less resources than everyone else. Having followed Korean skating for a while they're a mess and a half themselves sometimes. A lot of rinks are booked over a year in advance so this could be a potential nightmare that they'd want to avoid.
 

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