MacMadame
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What does her mother's instability have to do it with what class they were?
Tonya Harding, Tragic Muse? More Works Explore a Skating Scandal
- Thread starter jenniferlyon
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What does her mother's instability have to do it with what class they were?
jenniferlyon
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It's extremely difficult for an unstable single parent to maintain a working-class, let alone a middle-class, lifestyle. In my own experience, I've only seen it work in cases where the unstable individual comes from money (and even then, they tend to blow through it), or if they're getting financial and other support from an extended family member, a partner, or a generous divorce settlement (again, they tend to blow through it).
aftershocks
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Here's a video interview with Scott Hamilton from January 2017 (I only came across this today in a thread in Trash posted by @caseyedwards). When Scott is asked about the Tonya/Nancy affair contributing to the skating boom of the mid-1990s, listen up to Scott's unique and contrary take. I haven't heard this specific view from Scott before. It seems to hold water (pardon the indirect pun):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swpcf2gmgIw
Hamilton: "The huge television contracts created in the immediate aftermath of the huge ratings for the ladies sp event at the 1994 Olympics ... created this false economy that was [unrealistic and] unstable, and it just drove out the professional side of the sport and the bottom dropped out... There was no longer a balance between the professional side with veteran champions, and new champions rising on the amateur side... [Tonya vs Nancy] was the worst thing that happened to the sport... "
As I said earlier, and as I could see at the time, everyone was unwisely trying to cash in on interest in the Tonya/Nancy scandal -- something that did not really represent what the sport was all about. The way that the feds and the ISU suddenly became hostile to professional skaters whom they viewed as 'competition,' was incredibly stupid and damaging to the growth of the sport. It appears that many in the skating community still can't wrap their heads around this historical reality.
The impact continues to resonate in a bad way, particularly in the United States, which was majorly affected by technological advances in how fans watched the sport, coupled with the eventual detrimental loss of television contracts. To that conundrum we can add the 2002 Salt Lake City pairs scandal, and the resulting forced premature pushing in of IJS/COP, which truthfully was not ready at that point to be widely instituted, especially not with the hammer that slammed in anonymous judging (for international events).
IMO, the poorly planned attempted coup to overthrow the ISU, during the 2003 World Championships by backers of the World Skating Federation (while noble and courageous on paper), ended up further damaging U.S. fed's power and influence* competitively for their skaters, and in regard to the direction the sport was taking. (*Obviously some of the damage is tied to overall poor decisionmaking and lack of leadership/vision by members of U.S. fed).
Scott Hamilton indicates he's open to debating his views with anyone, and he's also willing to mentor any skaters with new ideas who want to do something new and different after perhaps leaving the next Olympics with some star power. That sounds good to me. And I also think there should be an open venue where new ideas and solutions can be debated by skaters, past veterans, coaches, responsible officials, and fans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swpcf2gmgIw
Hamilton: "The huge television contracts created in the immediate aftermath of the huge ratings for the ladies sp event at the 1994 Olympics ... created this false economy that was [unrealistic and] unstable, and it just drove out the professional side of the sport and the bottom dropped out... There was no longer a balance between the professional side with veteran champions, and new champions rising on the amateur side... [Tonya vs Nancy] was the worst thing that happened to the sport... "
As I said earlier, and as I could see at the time, everyone was unwisely trying to cash in on interest in the Tonya/Nancy scandal -- something that did not really represent what the sport was all about. The way that the feds and the ISU suddenly became hostile to professional skaters whom they viewed as 'competition,' was incredibly stupid and damaging to the growth of the sport. It appears that many in the skating community still can't wrap their heads around this historical reality.
The impact continues to resonate in a bad way, particularly in the United States, which was majorly affected by technological advances in how fans watched the sport, coupled with the eventual detrimental loss of television contracts. To that conundrum we can add the 2002 Salt Lake City pairs scandal, and the resulting forced premature pushing in of IJS/COP, which truthfully was not ready at that point to be widely instituted, especially not with the hammer that slammed in anonymous judging (for international events).
IMO, the poorly planned attempted coup to overthrow the ISU, during the 2003 World Championships by backers of the World Skating Federation (while noble and courageous on paper), ended up further damaging U.S. fed's power and influence* competitively for their skaters, and in regard to the direction the sport was taking. (*Obviously some of the damage is tied to overall poor decisionmaking and lack of leadership/vision by members of U.S. fed).
Scott Hamilton indicates he's open to debating his views with anyone, and he's also willing to mentor any skaters with new ideas who want to do something new and different after perhaps leaving the next Olympics with some star power. That sounds good to me. And I also think there should be an open venue where new ideas and solutions can be debated by skaters, past veterans, coaches, responsible officials, and fans.
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Coco
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My friends who were raised by a single parent must be lucky because most their households were as stable as my two parent household!
Absolutely no extra money for anything beyond basics, but dinner together every night, help with homework, clean clothes that fit, never changing school in the middle of the year, etc. I mean, that would be how I would define stable.
Absolutely no extra money for anything beyond basics, but dinner together every night, help with homework, clean clothes that fit, never changing school in the middle of the year, etc. I mean, that would be how I would define stable.
Carolla5501
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I think the statements that "single parents' can't be stable on here are misleading. I know a lot of single parents who are doing a great job. I also know some upper class well off families whose kids are turning out as total disasters!
It's not the number of parents or even the "amount of cash" that can be the final determination as to how things turn out. It's the parenting!
(I also know some single parents whose income, from their jobs, is plenty to provide a more than "stable" lifestyle. LOL! At least one of my friends has MORE money to spend on her kids now that she dumped the deadbeat ex!)
Nomad
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^ I used to like Harding's skating, but by the time Albertville rolled around I'd come to the conclusion that she was her own worst enemy.
Brenda_Bottems
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Tonya had all the talent in the world. She has no one to blame but herself for turning her life into a tragically subpar episode of Maury Povich.
I also agree with Scott Hamilton that the "whack" really did ruin the sport we love.
-BB
I also agree with Scott Hamilton that the "whack" really did ruin the sport we love.
-BB
Japanfan
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Tonya did not 'get away with it'. IIRC she received a lifetime ban from the federation IIRC and could only ever skate on public ice, in addition to the other aspects of her sentencing. Whereas typical convicted offenders do their time and then get to start over, Tonya never had that luxury. In addition to the ban, she has also been subject to a lifetime of criticism, scorn and humiliation. For a crime that is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. And she'll never really be able to stop paying for it. Nor will she will be able to hide from it - whereas many individuals who commit various offenses are not chased by them for life.
The last interview I saw with her some years ago showed that she had moved on with her life, having married, had a child, and working as a landscaper. She said that landscaping satisfied her, as it was very physical work.
Nancy too moved on, and did well by her own account as well as marrying her agent. I think she's rather a wealthy woman, or at least very well-off, and life has not treated her unkindly.
Yes, the media just won't let this go. I find it sad that people are trying to still make a buck off of the situation so many years later.
As to whether Tonya was lazy and stubborn. At this point in time, it really does not matter anymore. Plenty of young people make stupid mistakes, and then go on to live satisfying lives.
Vagabond
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While I expect that the Admins here will give you some leeway on this one, you should be aware of the possible consequences of using certain terms on social media (or elsewhere), especially when posting under your own name:
A Yale Dean Lost Her Job After Calling People ‘White Trash’ in Yelp Reviews
jenniferlyon
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I didn't say ALL single parents were unstable. I was referring to individuals like Tonya's mother who are not mentally stable and, at the same time, are trying to raise a child alone. There are plenty of stable single parents. Unfortunately for Tonya, her mother was not one of them.
Japanfan
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jenniferlyon put "white trash" in quotes, which indicates that she is referring to it, not claiming it to be an accurate term. So I very much doubt that the admins would care.
MacMadame
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Plus she wasn't calling anyone that. She was describing the behavior of other people she read about.
aftershocks
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Exactly. The whole episode, it's numerous spin-offs and ubiquitously rebounding re-enactments have just seemed to be used for 'wink-wink' nostalgia, humorous parody with sexist undertone, and inaccurate portrayals of figure skating that have little to do with figure skating. The people running the sport were so wrong-headed for jumping onto the scandal's ratings-bonanza-frenzy bandwagon in the most idiotic way which ending up impacting the sport long-term very detrimentally.
Thanks @Japanfan for your post #39, which expresses the complexity of ways in which the entire story and its aftermath can be viewed. By this point, it's not really on many levels even about the real Tonya and Nancy. It's about cardboard, cut-out figures who don't have voices. No one is truly interested in any truths either of them might have ever had to reveal.
On another note, I came across this the other day: "The 10 Greatest Figure Skaters Who Never Won An Olympic Medal"
https://thehairpin.com/the-10-greatest-figure-skaters-who-never-won-an-olympic-medal-51d81c45d294
Tonya Harding is number 1 on this list
Ummm, okay, I guess everyone has their own lists.
Not that it really matters in the long run, since there are plenty of great skaters who have contributed to and made significant impacts on the sport who don't have an Olympic medal, and some not even a World medal. Them's sometimes the breaks in figure skating.The odd list includes: Tiffany Chin (10), Surya Bonaly (9), Jill Trenary (8), Marvel/Urbanski (7), Meno/Sand (6), Christopher Bowman (5), Elaine Zayak (4), Nicole Bobek (3), Rudy Galindo (2)
Any list of mine would have to include Kurt Browning, Todd Eldredge, Tomas Verner, Matt Savoie, and Johnny Weir!
On this list, I would agree with Meno/Sand (they certainly were as good or better than Watson/Oppegard who copped bronze at 1998 Olympics). I remember Marvel/Urbanksi fondly, but if we are talking about U.S. pairs who unfairly missed out on medalling at the Olympics, I would place Ina/Zimmerman well ahead of Marvel/Urbanski.
And I would have Babilonia/ Gardner ahead of both! Obviously Tai/Randy missed out on an Olympic medal solely due to injury-related bad luck.I can also agree with Rudy Galindo, Tiffany Chin, Surya Bonaly, Tonya Harding, and uh perhaps Jill Trenary at her best. But I would have Caryn Kadavy well ahead of both Trenary and Elaine Zayak for sure! But Yuka Sato and Denise Biellmann should be ahead of them all, no? (In their Olympics adventures, Sato was highest as 5th--1994, and Biellmann highest as 4th--1980). The thing about Christopher Bowman and Nicole Bobek is that despite their exceptional talents, it wasn't in the cards for them due to personal problems and lack of discipline. Much like Tonya Harding, who absolutely scuttled her chances at an Olympic medal when her focus strayed to worrying more about her competition instead of how she herself could improve! A lesson for everyone, eh.
toddlj
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We went to see "T." last night in Chicago. I'm a member of a group that assesses theater for award consideration and I'm not technically supposed to write an assessment (other than our internal ones) so I won't comment on the performances or the production values. I'm permitted to discuss the script (since it didn't premiere in Chicago) and I'll say I wasn't a fan. It has a very stilted language style that distances you from the characters and keeps you from caring about them. Nancy has no role here, other that references Jeff makes to her as "horse face" and descriptions of her as having the "princess" image that sometimes receives higher than deserving marks. The play really focuses on Jeff and the bodyguard and their inept plotting... "T." clearly is aware that something is up, and does nothing to stop it but also asks to be left out of it. (She is pretty disappointed when Nancy recovers so quickly, which is a telling moment.) And "T.'s" dad is portrayed as having lost touch with reality completely. Seems to hone pretty much to the facts as we know them.
That's a shame. It takes a lot of effort to pass all the go/no go decisions these days to bring something to the stage ... and to see such immediate shortcomings is disappointing, regardless of the story/context.
Here's some clips of "T" from YouTube. I thought it looked pretty interesting if you're already familiar with the story. Unfortunately, I don't live anywhere near Chi town.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=17-Lo1a9mh8 (Trailer)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1NnJuR9grXU
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoHdNKXZ4ic
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7o6CmroeOb4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=17-Lo1a9mh8 (Trailer)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1NnJuR9grXU
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoHdNKXZ4ic
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7o6CmroeOb4