Time to change the minimum age for seniors?

[DimaToe]

The current system asks for technical superiority from champions. If someone can do this this at 16 instead of 25 that should not matter. IMO it just seems like TPTB wanting to see things balanced out instead of asking “how did this happen?” If a 13year old can land a quad it shouldn’t be held against them, because A. Other federations took their sweet time to adapt and B. A 15 year old body can complete and recover from certain amount of reps more work that a 26 year old one, That should not matter, it didn’t seem to matter 20 years ago....Training at an elite level will most times come at a cost, but when ones own doesn’t win everything it becomes easy to point fingers. Skating is working backwards, first fix the issue, the fix the consequences

 

[gkelly]

First, I think, it's necessary to define what the issue is.

Lack of longevity so that audiences don't get to follow careers of the same skaters over the years?

Lack of physically mature young women in the sport for audiences to appreciate their physical beauty? (I hope this isn't still a consideration but it seemed to have been in earlier eras)

Lack of artistically mature (or skating skill-mature) competitors in the field as a whole, or on the podiums?

Danger to young athletes overtraining potentially damaging skills at an age when they are physically more vulnerable and/or mentally less able to make wise decisions about training priorities?

Mental/emotional pressures on young teens expected to deliver results for their federations, fulfill media and touring obligations, etc.?

Some of those issues might best be solved by age limits. For others, perhaps other rule changes would be more effective.

 

[purple skates]

Lack of artistically mature (or skating skill-mature) competitors in the field as a whole, or on the podiums?

Danger to young athletes overtraining potentially damaging skills at an age when they are physically more vulnerable and/or mentally less able to make wise decisions about training priorities?

Mental/emotional pressures on young teens expected to deliver results for their federations, fulfill media and touring obligations, etc.?

The first two definitely. I haven’t thought of the third, but it’s a good point.

Regarding jumping skills - is a small but quickly rotated triple really a quality jump? I’d argue that it isn’t. Jumps should have height and ice coverage as well.

 

[DimaToe]

First, I think, it's necessary to define what the issue is.

Lack of longevity so that audiences don't get to follow careers of the same skaters over the years?

Lack of physically mature young women in the sport for audiences to appreciate their physical beauty? (I hope this isn't still a consideration but it seemed to have been in earlier eras)

Lack of artistically mature (or skating skill-mature) competitors in the field as a whole, or on the podiums?

Danger to young athletes overtraining potentially damaging skills at an age when they are physically more vulnerable and/or mentally less able to make wise decisions about training priorities?

Mental/emotional pressures on young teens expected to deliver results for their federations, fulfill media and touring obligations, etc.?

Some of those issues might best be solved by age limits. For others, perhaps other rule changes would be more effective.

Several issues with this.

1. What does longevity give to an athlete other than a following beyond the fandom within their sport?

2. Physical beauty? So a female athlete must have a “mature” body to be appreciated?

3. Artistry has nothing to do with skating skills, a skater can be technically superb without being an extroverted performer, people on here throw the word “artistry” way too freely on here when in reality very few skaters would fit that description.

4. Physical damage can happen at any age when the physical conditioning isn’t up to par.

5. Mental/emotional maturity isn’t relevant to age, a 15yo can be more in touch with reality than a 30yo elsewhere.

 

[Orm Irian]

It would be easy enough to require coaches to sign a code of ethics.

It would be impossible to police what every coach in every rink in every country in the world is doing every hour of every day on the ice.

I've never been of the opinion that because we can't do everything, we should do nothing. It's technically also impossible to police what individual athletes do every hour of every day in every rink in every country across the world, and everywhere outside those rinks for that matter, but the drugs testing people manage pretty good coverage anyway. That supplies a possible model for spot inspections of coaches who are signatories, etc. Supplement that with an oversight requirement for rink owners/managers and reporting procedures for known/suspected violations, and you've got the beginnings of a system that can be adapted for different jurisdictions.

Other professions have oversight bodies, especially ones that work with children and teenagers. Why not coaching too?

 

[gkelly]

Other professions have oversight bodies, especially ones that work with children and teenagers. Why not coaching too?

Is the goal to minimize harm to young skaters? Or is it to punish coaches? (Or punish skaters?)

What would be the most effective way to minimize that harm?

It seems to me that research, education, and promoting best practices, and changing rules about what's allowed in programs or what's rewarded most highly and therefore necessary to win, would be more effective and more cost effective than trying to keep track of what coaches are doing especially when much of the practice time takes place by skaters on their own without direct coach oversight.

I'm not saying do nothing. I'm saying do something that's more likely to achieve the desired results.

 

[mag]

Is the goal to minimize harm to young skaters? Or is it to punish coaches? (Or punish skaters?)

What would be the most effective way to minimize that harm?

It seems to me that research, education, and promoting best practices, and changing rules about what's allowed in programs or what's rewarded most highly and therefore necessary to win, would be more effective and more cost effective than trying to keep track of what coaches are doing especially when much of the practice time takes place by skaters on their own without direct coach oversight.

I'm not saying do nothing. I'm saying do something that's more likely to achieve the desired results.

Furthermore, this approach doesn’t reward those who break the rules. Imposing rules that are not strictly enforced penalizes those who follow the rules and rewards those who break them.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Yes, it would require the ISU or another oversight body to step up and get a bit more involved, and is therefore unlikely to happen...

The ISU is only an administrative body for the sport. I think it would need to be a body that is similar to the drug testing authorities or even a health and wellbeing type organisation who would be better to look into something like this.

 

[Aussie Willy]

It would be easy enough to require coaches to sign a code of ethics.

It would be impossible to police what every coach in every rink in every country in the world is doing every hour of every day on the ice.

And even if every coach is very strict about the number of jump repetitions they allow their skaters during lessons and supervised practices, there's nothing stopping most skaters from going to another rink, or another session at their own rink when the coach is not present, to get in more repetitions if they think it will give them an edge.

Coaches already are (or should be) bound by a code of ethics and conduct. There seems to be good policies on child protection and penalties under the law.

And I agree with you about policing. That becomes the problem. What are the standards and how do you enforce them?

And I have seen my fair share of parents who are also the problem too.

 

[skateboy]

Several issues with this.

1. What does longevity give to an athlete other than a following beyond the fandom within their sport?

2. Physical beauty? So a female athlete must have a “mature” body to be appreciated?

3. Artistry has nothing to do with skating skills, a skater can be technically superb without being an extroverted performer, people on here throw the word “artistry” way too freely on here when in reality very few skaters would fit that description.

4. Physical damage can happen at any age when the physical conditioning isn’t up to par.

5. Mental/emotional maturity isn’t relevant to age, a 15yo can be more in touch with reality than a 30yo elsewhere.

Yes, all of this! I couldn't agree more.