Think Olympic Judges are Biased? They Might Be.

[skatingguy]

You are holding out Jean Senft, who was suspended for collusion, as a beacon of fair judging?

Wasn't Senft given a ban for whistle blowing?

 

[pat c]

Wasn't Senft given a ban for whistle blowing?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/canadian-judge-withdraws-appeal/article954280/

........She was suspended for six months after she secretly taped a telephone conversation with Ukrainian judge Yuri Balkov, who was heard to rattle off the placements of skaters before the Olympic dance event was over. Balkov was suspended for one year, but Senft was surprised to find that she was set down, as well.

 

[volturemean]

Senft deserved the suspension for one reason IMO, she went along with the exact same placements that Balkov ordered her to even though Balkov himself did not follow them exactly, but Senft did. She was also the ONLY judge to place Anissina & Peizerat behind Lobacheva & Averbuhk in the FD or in fact any program, or to follow Balkov's exact demands on the very conversation she recorded, including even Balkov himself.

 

[overedge]

Senft deserved the suspension for one reason IMO, she went along with the exact same placements that Balkov ordered her to even though Balkov himself did not follow them exactly, but Senft did. She was also the ONLY judge to place Anissina & Peizerat behind Lobacheva & Averbuhk in the FD or in fact any program, or to follow Balkov's exact demands on the very conversation she recorded, including even Balkov himself.

Revisionist history is a wonderful thing.

 

[Rock2]

You are holding out Jean Senft, who was suspended for collusion, as a beacon of fair judging?

If you really want to go down that route, let's take a look at how the judges marked the 1994 Olympic Men's Free Skate.

https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/winter/1994/FSK/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_1994_Winter_Olympics#Men

The judges, numbered 1-9, were from:
ROM RUS BLR JPN FRA DAN USA GBR CAN (respectively)

How they marked the Top Five in the Free Skate:

Urmanov: 2 1 1 1 5 2 1 1 1
Stojko: 3 5 3 3 1 3 2 2 2
Browning: 4 2 2 2 4 5 4 5 3
Petrenko: 1 4 4 4 3 4 5 3 5
Candeloro: 5 3 5 6 2 1 3 4 4

Other than the French judge, who marked Stojko first and Urmanov fifth , all of the judges placed Urmanov ahead of Stojko, even the Danish judge who marked Candeloro first. This was not a close decision by any means.

I admire your chutzpah, though.

Was Senft the one who was suspended for collusion...because she reported proactively to her federation that she got approached to make a deal but wanted nothing to do with it? Regardless, that point has zero bearing on the point I'm making.

On Lillehammer, the point was not to debate how close the result was...although thanks for your analysis. The point was that the result was close enough (4 judges had Elvis 1st or 2nd in the free) that she could have put Stojko first and few would have blinked. But she didn't.

I was wondering aloud how many judges of skating power countries similarly passed on elevating their own top skater at the Olympics when they could have rationalized/gotten away with it?

Sorry that the lack of clarity on my post caused you to go down irrelevant paths. Hopefully I have explained myself.

 

[volturemean]

I dont think Senft judged the mens event in Lillehammer. It was another Canadian judge. And yes this judge (not Senft) did place Stojko 2nd to Urmanov, but 8 of the 9 judges had Stojko behind Urmanov. The result wasnt even close despite the talk in Canada that Stojko should have won. What you are pointing out is simply that the majority of judges (5 of 9) didnt even have Stojko 2nd in the free skate. The only judge who didnt was France who had Stojko 1st and Urmanov 5th (LOL).

 

[Vagabond]

Going back and looking at the Wikipedia page, I saw that the Canadian judge was Elizabeth Clark, not Jean Senft.

On Lillehammer, the point was not to debate how close the result was...although thanks for your analysis. The point was that the result was close enough (4 judges had Elvis 1st or 2nd in the free) that she could have put Stojko first and few would have blinked. But she didn't.

But it wasn't close! Eight out of nine judges marked Urmanov ahead of Stojko. For obvious reasons. Urmanov skated better.

The reason the ninth judge put Stojko first and Urmanov fifth, is equally obvious: to protect Candeloro's shot at a medal. And I, for one, will blink at that!

 

[MacMadame]

It will also further hurt skating's image with the public. I don't care if skater never moves away from niche sport status (I lie, I do care quite a bit actually) but I do think skating needs to keep an image of being a legitimate and fair sport for a myriad of reasons that include status as an Olympic sport and participation from the beginner levels on.

I am going to disagree with how you worded this even though I think we probably agree more than disagree.

(1) I don't care if the sports I follow are niche or mainstream. And I *really* don't care. I follow them because they appeal to me. Mainstream-ness has advantages but it has disadvantages too.

(2) I don't want skating to have an image of being fair. I want it to actually be fair. If it is fair but uneducated general public doesn't think it is, I don't care. But if it's not fair within the constraints of human ability, then I do care even if the public thinks it's fair.

Let's face it, everyone is biased. Everyone. The problem isn't that judges are biased. The problem is that their biases are impacting their judging in an unfair way. I think the data the Buzzfeed article should be incorporated into judges training so that judges learn to recognize and overcome this particular bias.

 

[sap5]

The problem isn't that judges are biased. The problem is that their biases are impacting their judging in an unfair way.

This is the key. Everyone knows that in a subjective sport you'll have cultural, nationalistic, artistic biases. The problem is when people within the system itself don't have faith in the system. To get past that, imo, there needs to be a feeling that judges put love of the sport over love of their own country.

I may prefer one style over another, but ultimately, I want to see a skater do their very best, no matter what style, and my marks are there to encourage that. Like I'd want to explain what I'm seeing, through the skater - judge feedback loop that occurs after a performance, much like a teacher does after an exam. Then the skater can take that or not, depending on their own vision. If that loop isn't transparent, then I can see how people within the system itself may think that judges are working to reward one Fed's skater over the other, etc. Like if I can't understand why some teachers mark me the way they do, eventually I'm just going to start to believe the teacher hates me, or doesn't really know what s/he is doing. That's not a good system.

 

[clairecloutier]

Buzzfeed now has an investigative piece where they provide numbers and data and how home-biased judging benefits the big countries. The piece even name names, including Sharon Rogers. This one also has quotes from officials and judges (of course with Sonia Bianchetti being one of them(

https://www.buzzfeed.com/johntemplon/the-edge?utm_term=.cmbq01bkpn#.lw1R9Xrm02

This was a great piece--very interesting to read, and I really appreciate Buzzfeed's effort in creating their own corridor algorithm and evaluating the results from so many competitions through the algorithm. The investment of time & money that such a project entails is significant and should be appreciated IMO. The Buzzfeed article gives the deeper perspective that many people were missing in the first article linked in this thread (which I still found to be a good overview of the issue).

National bias has been a known problem in skating for decades ... it's nice to see some numbers, statistics, and names around it. It's definitely something the ISU should address, along with other known problems with the scoring system and current judging setup. Publicity around these issues may be uncomfortable for the ISU, but ultimately I think it's a tool to hopefully help prod the organization forward. My hope would be that they'll pay some attention and respond.

 

[millyskate]

Buzzfeed now has an investigative piece where they provide numbers and data and how home-biased judging benefits the big countries. The piece even name names, including Sharon Rogers. This one also has quotes from officials and judges (of course with Sonia Bianchetti being one of them(

https://www.buzzfeed.com/johntemplon/the-edge?utm_term=.cmbq01bkpn#.lw1R9Xrm02

This one talks specifically about how one judge can change the results of a competition:



I do wish when these pieces use competitions and skaters as examples, they provide how each skater skated because I think without context, it makes it seem like one skater was much better than the other and a history of reading Surya Bonaly and Tonya Harding pieces makes me weary of that. I think the above quote takes out the context of how the skaters skater thus weakening the argument.

Anyway, before people respond with a sarcastic remarks that this is obvious, remember this isn't written for us but for the broad audience in general and for a lot of people, including us, it will more than validate what we've suspected. It will also further hurt skating's image with the public. I don't care if skater never moves away from niche sport status (I lie, I do care quite a bit actually) but I do think skating needs to keep an image of being a legitimate and fair sport for a myriad of reasons that include status as an Olympic sport and participation from the beginner levels on.

This is actually a well-researched, well-written piece. Interesting to see the average increase by country.
@cholla - maybe one to link for the website?