The Unbeatables (?)

[Vash01]

We have an unusual situation this year. In each discipline there a skater or a pair that is practically unbeatable. When I started thinking of who could win the Gold, there was no one that could beat a clean or almost clean performance by each. Everyone is just skating for a silver or bronze because even a clean performance will not beat them these 'unbeatables'. There may be one exception though.

Men- Nathan Chen

Ladies - Rika Kihira

Ice Dance - Papadakis & Cizeron

Pairs - James & Cipres

Some may argue that J&C are not unbeatable if Sui & Han skate well (even with one mistake). I agree with that, but S&H are coming off an injury. At 4CC they just squeaked by MTM, so I am not sure. J&C have a throw 3Lutz. Judges have started loving J&C because of their consistency. However, we have not seen compete against S&H this season. So there is room for doubt.

 

[muffinplus]

...
Ladies - Rika Kihira
...

I don't know her...

 

[Vash01]

I don't know her...

She has won every competition except the Japanese nationals this year.

 

[hanca]

She has won every competition except the Japanese nationals this year.

Which implies that she is not unbeatable if another Japanese lady managed to beat her.

 

[Vash01]

Which implies that she is not unbeatable if another Japanese lady managed to beat her.

If she lands her jumps nobody can beat her. A step out or a turn out on a jump will not cost her much. Read the original post.

Kihira's TES are so high that nobody can overtake her if she lands the jumps, with one minor error in one of them. Judges automatically give high PCS to high TES skaters, deserved or not. We have seen this a thousand times. Even if Kaori skates clean, her PCS cannot make up for the difference in TES.

 

[hanca]

If she lands her jumps nobody can beat her. A step out or a turn out on a jump will not cost her much. Read the original post.

Kihira's TES are so high that nobody can overtake her if she lands the jumps, with one minor error in one of them. Judges automatically give high PCS to high TES skaters, deserved or not. We have seen this a thousand times. Even if Kaori skates clean, her OCS cannit make up for the difference in TES.

I don’t think anyone can be unbeatable. Maybe Papadakis/Cizeron, because the marks are most subjective in ice dance. But in freeskating, anything can happen.

 

[muffinplus]

She has won every competition except the Japanese nationals this year.

Thanks. I've been too busy and had no time to watch...

 

[mjb52]

I think the only unbeatable person/team on that list is P & C.

 

[Vash01]

I think the only unbeatable person/team on that list is P & C.

Nathan too. If be lands the jumps, and be usually does, nobody can beat him. I love Shoma but the judges give nearly same PCS to Nathan and Shoma. So I dont see Shoma beating Nathan, particularly with his teputation for prerotation and ur (plus he rarely skates clean).

Rika Kihira is unbeatable if she lands most of her jumps. The pop in the SP put her behind four skaters but in the end she won anyway. I am not sold on her yet because she needs to develop artistically but the high TES pretty much give her the win.

 

[Aerobicidal]

So if James and Cipres land most of their jumps and Sui and Han don't or may be somewhat land some of their jumps and the judges think that they are ahead of the French and if Sui heals and Han does what be can do best but the beatable quotient changes from 92.34 to 99.15 and James and Cipres complete a throw that other teams cannot do MTM will no longer become valid in the index of who could detract from unbeatableness aside from a scenario in which Sui lands things?

I will be too busy to post again in this thread.

 

[hanca]

Rika Kihira is unbeatable if she lands most of her jumps. The pop in the SP put her behind four skaters but in the end she won anyway. I am not sold on her yet because she needs to develop artistically but the high TES pretty much give her the win.

She can’t be unbeatable if she was beaten just less than two months ago. If she lands jumps....well, that’s just IF. That means she is not unbeatable because if she doesn’t land some of her jumps, she will be beaten.

 

[Polaris]

Hanyu > Chen with both skating cleanly.

Only team unbeatable on that list is P&C.

 

[Vash01]

She can’t be unbeatable if she was beaten just less than two months ago. If she lands jumps....well, that’s just IF. That means she is not unbeatable because if she doesn’t land some of her jumps, she will be beaten.

Read my original post. It says if they skate nearly clean.....

It is not a big if because she, Nathan, J&C have been very consistent season.

About P&C, it is just ice dance. No high risk elements. Once they get past the twizzles it is only levels.

 

[hanca]

Read my original post. It says if they skate nearly clean.....

It is not a big if because she, Nathan, J&C have been very consistent season.

About P&C, it is just ice dance. No high risk elements. Once they get past the twizzles it is only levels.

I did read your post. But that’s exactly my point. Do you consider me unbeatable? Because if I started skating when I was three... All those IFs don’t mean anything. If Zagitova didn’t fall she would have won worlds last year. And guess what? She did fall, and not only once. And she was pretty consistent last season, so being consistent is not any guarantee.

 

[Holy Headband]

Is the joke here that you have Nathan Chen as the 'unbeatable' male skater instead of the actual unbeatable male skater?

 

[Vash01]

Is the joke here that you have Nathan Chen as the 'unbeatable' male skater instead of the actual unbeatable male skater?

If you are talking of Hanyu, he has an injury. I am not sure if he will even compete at worlds and if he did, how well he will skate.

I don't like Nathan Chen (I would rather see Shoma or Yuzuru win) but if he lands the jumps, the judges do give him high pcs, comparable with Shoma's . Most of the time he does land and he always rotates his jumps. others usually make mistakes, his path is clear. It is all about how many quads a skater lands.

 

[vodkashot]

I don't view Nathan Chen as "unbeatable," because a clean Yuzuru Hanyu would almost certainly beat a clean Nathan Chen.

While it is true that Nathan has a higher BV than Yuzuru, Yuzuru's higher GOE and PCS would more than make up the deficit.

 

[Erin]

If you are talking of Hanyu, he has an injury. I am not sure if he will even compete at worlds and if he did, how well he will skate.

Hanyu is planning to compete at Worlds. As for how he will skate, the last time he was injured like this was the 2018 Olympics. I can't remember how that turned out though.

 

[Polaris]

If you are talking of Hanyu, he has an injury. I am not sure if he will even compete at worlds and if he did, how well he will skate.

See Olympics 2018 for reference.

 

[lauravvv]

If you are talking of Hanyu, he has an injury. I am not sure if he will even compete at worlds and if he did, how well he will skate.

Read your own original post . You were talking about a "clean or almost clean performance". A clean or close to clean performance by Hanyu would definitely beat a clean performance by Chen even with 3 quads vs. 4 quads (don't think Chen will have 5 at Worlds).

 

[Vash01]

I did read your post. But that’s exactly my point. Do you consider me unbeatable? Because if I started skating when I was three... All those IFs don’t mean anything. If Zagitova didn’t fall she would have won worlds last year. And guess what? She did fall, and not only once. And she was pretty consistent last season, so being consistent is not any guarantee.

Where did I mention the age Villegas’s Dean were anyone started skating? Youare completely off track.

You cannot say nobody is unbeatable.

Nobody is unbeatable forever but for one or two seasons (sometimes many seasons) a skater can be unbeatable. I am only talking about worlds 2019, that is one season.

There have been unbeatable skaters in the past. IrinaRodnina, Gordeeva Grinkov were unbeatable when they were competing as amateurs. Torvill Dean were unbeatable once they won their first worlds. If not for injuries, Hanyu would have been unbeatable.

 

[once_upon]

It's figure skating - ice is slippery - no one is perfect all the time and crap happens. Maybe P/C in dance is unbeatable, I don't know for certain, they are in a class of their own. Everyone else you've listed can be beaten.

Ice is slippery

 

[skatingguy]

Where did I mention the age Villegas’s Dean were anyone started skating? Youare completely off track.

You cannot say nobody is unbeatable.

Nobody is unbeatable forever but for one or two seasons (sometimes many seasons) a skater can be unbeatable. I am only talking about worlds 2019, that is one season.

There have been unbeatable skaters in the past. IrinaRodnina, Gordeeva Grinkov were unbeatable when they were competing as amateurs. Torvill Dean were unbeatable once they won their first worlds. If not for injuries, Hanyu would have been unbeatable.

Gordeeva & Grinkov lost Skate Canada in 1986 & Worlds in 1988, plus the changes in the judging system mean that remaining undefeated is more difficult because errors are more obviously punishable particularly small errors that previously would have been ignored - see Hubbell/Donohue Four Continents Championships 2019.

 

[Tahuu]

Lol. Some hanyubot is so scared that s/he seeks reassurance from other posters that a clean Yuzu will beat a clean Nathan.

 

[hanca]

Where did I mention the age Villegas’s Dean were anyone started skating? Youare completely off track.

You cannot say nobody is unbeatable.

Nobody is unbeatable forever but for one or two seasons (sometimes many seasons) a skater can be unbeatable. I am only talking about worlds 2019, that is one season.

There have been unbeatable skaters in the past. IrinaRodnina, Gordeeva Grinkov were unbeatable when they were competing as amateurs. Torvill Dean were unbeatable once they won their first worlds. If not for injuries, Hanyu would have been unbeatable.

Were you watching last year? Medvedeva was considered unbeatable after not losing for three years, yet she was beaten by Zagitova despite skating clean at the Olympics. Zagitova went to worlds being considered unbeatable because she won all competitions that year and was considered consistent, yet she was beaten at the worlds. There is no unbeatable in this sport.

 

[kwanatic]

In an "all skate cleanly" scenario, yes Rika Kihira is unbeatable at this point in the women's field. She's attempting three 3As (1 in the SP, 2 in the FS) which pushes her BV higher than everyone else's. Add that to the fact she earns big GOE, is on a roll this year (undefeated internationally), would get a PCS boost from her difficult content and clean skating, AND worlds are in Japan, Rika is definitely unbeatable if she skates cleanly this year. I figure she'd score around 83-84 in the SP (based off of her 82.51 at the GPF) and about 155-158 in the FS (based off of 154.72 FS at NHK -- she had PCS of 67.55; that score would like jump to 69-70+).

If she makes mistakes she will open the door but if she skates cleanly I don't think anyone can beat her.

 

[tamms]

I agree that a clean Rika will beat any current senior lady.

I love Shoma but the judges give nearly same PCS to Nathan and Shoma

Hate to agree with this but it's true. It boggles my mind how their PCS can be so close.

 

[Fairuza]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

 

[Frau Muller]

If all Pairs teams skate up to their potential, J/C are most definitely beatable. Smokin’ hot” costumes don’t make the French unbeatable. They’re basically wild & sloppy but have managed to perform their tech elements cleanly in a watered-down field, so far this season.

 

[hanca]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

To hand out the medals to those ‘unbeatable ‘ before the competition even starts. Because what if they were accidentally beaten? Then it would be too late to crown them unbeatable.