The Skating Lesson

[3T3T]

I became a fan of TSL during Covid lockdowns as it was a nice distraction to all that was going on. However I’ve found in recent months it’s become a hard watch. It just feels like Dave hates figure skating, he is critical of everything and everyone. I also find him very dismissive/rude to Jonathan, constantly talking over him or cutting home off.

Recently I only watch reviews of the major events (Worlds, Euros, GPF, Russian Nats). Some of the viewers include time stamps so you can go direct to your area of interest. I watched a small part is his original Worlds review but didn’t enjoy it so gave up. I thought was a great worlds, loads of great performances and great audience support.

My favourite guest of his is Maya B. I like her take on things and she is more than capable of holding her own against him. I enjoyed the Worlds review she did with him. I found Alissa Czisny tough going.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

Maya also makes him stay on topic. I like her because she's moody and Russian enough to not put up with his shit. But I didn't watch the latest video because his Worlds recap was so terrible I didn't want to bother. If he's so miserable he has to bitch for an entire video, why do I have to listen to a two hour bitchfest? He has his points but I don't see why I'm expected to pay for one of his pity parties.

I put it on because TSL is great white noise, especially during long drives, as was the case this week. It's like having that one annoying friend who dominates the conversation, leaving you to focus on the drive and your only response is to nod or laugh

 

[Judy]

I love Maya. She doesn’t make excuses for Russia vs that she explains.

 

[Frau Muller]

I just saw TSL’s Worlds recap with Dave & Maya. How can neither of them pick Ilia’s free skate as the single highlight of the competition? That was THE highlight…no IFs, ANDs, or BUTs.

Maya picked Fa’s FS; Dave picked Stellato/Deschamps Pairs FS. (Dave also mentioned Kevin Aymoz as his favorite skater beside Stellato, when Maya mentioned Fa.)

TSL is off my hearing list. Good riddance.

 

[cholla]

I just saw TSL’s Worlds recap with Dave & Maya. How can neither of them pick Ilia’s free skate as the single highlight of the competition? That was THE highlight…no IFs, ANDs, or BUTs.

Why should there be only ONE? Malinin's free was exceptional and he made history with 6 quads but so was Siao Him Fa's as he made history with the most unexpected come back from the bottom of the SP (BTW his name isn't only Fa dear Mu ) Stelatto-Dudek becoming a World champion at 40 was also a highlight.

Maya picked Fa’s FS; Dave picked Stellato/Deschamps Pairs FS. (Dave also mentioned Kevin Aymoz as his favorite skater beside Stellato, when Maya mentioned Fa.)

TSL is off my hearing list. Good riddance.

Well, I don't listen to TSL and I open this thread once approx. once every six months out of curiosity but for once I agree with them. As much as I'm not into DL and TSL, your decision seems a bit radical Or is your post tongue in cheeks?

 

[marbri]

I just saw TSL’s Worlds recap with Dave & Maya. How can neither of them pick Ilia’s free skate as the single highlight of the competition? That was THE highlight…no IFs, ANDs, or BUTs.

Maya picked Fa’s FS; Dave picked Stellato/Deschamps Pairs FS. (Dave also mentioned Kevin Aymoz as his favorite skater beside Stellato, when Maya mentioned Fa.)

TSL is off my hearing list. Good riddance.

I am not saying Illia isn't very impressive with his jumps and can accept that someone has it as their top moment of Worlds. But his FS doesn't even make my top moments

 

[aml78]

Dave has some valid opinions but they are just his opinions and he treats them as if they are gospel and if people don’t agree or skaters don’t do what he says they are wrong. It’s become too much. And he just talks over Jonathan or just ignore what Jonathan says and moves onto the next topic of his choosing.

 

[Judy]

I just saw TSL’s Worlds recap with Dave & Maya. How can neither of them pick Ilia’s free skate as the single highlight of the competition? That was THE highlight…no IFs, ANDs, or BUTs.

Maya picked Fa’s FS; Dave picked Stellato/Deschamps Pairs FS. (Dave also mentioned Kevin Aymoz as his favorite skater beside Stellato, when Maya mentioned Fa.)

TSL is off my hearing list. Good riddance.

Ilia’s T’s was incredible but it just comes down to individual opinions right? Like us? I thought there was a LOT of amazing moments and skates. However, if you really don’t like someone and their comments etc you have a choice of watching/not watching.

 

[Yazmeen]

Not too impressed with Dave's hot takes on Xitter that he is the only one speaking the truth about the sport, and that it says so much about what a bad place the sport is in that his commentary is not welcomed.

Get over yourself, hun. The people who are foolish enough to give you Patreon money will heal your bruised ego, and the rest of us will keep trying to do constructive things to make the sport better.

I follow TSL on Facebook, but I honestly don't listen to/watch the recaps; I had enough of Zoom calls during the worst days of the pandemic, and that's what they remind me of. I mostly enjoy the old videos TSL posts of past skaters.

I didn't watch the Worlds recaps video before it got pulled to Patreon, but it definitely drew comments on Facebook, both backing TSL's upset as to where skating is today, and against that point. I think what bothered me was seeing so many fans letting TSL know they were on fixed incomes (hey, our demographic is aging), and Dave/TSL first trying to argue that that the Patreon costs weren't expensive, then telling said fans to contact them to work something out. I don't know what's going on, and personally I don't care, but this comes off as a move that was made rather suddenly, and possibly without thinking it through completely, and obviously some fans do not like it.

 

[tony]

Of course people are going to be pissed when content isn't "free" anymore, but there are other outlets to follow skating that they can move to. I am sure there is enough of a TSL following that isn't complaining about fixed incomes, too.

Aside from the few times when TSL has disappeared for a few days (or however long), Dave has kept pretty consistent in his posting, his research, and his pulling big names to discuss events in the last.. 10 years? and even beforehand, he kept his blog running for a long while. It's something that most other people haven't managed to do for one reason or other (putting my hand way up high here as part of that group).

If he wants to monetize (or at least greater monetize) the work he's put in, I say go for it. It was a passion project that really took off to greater levels than any other podcaster or blogger has attained. People are going to be pissed about whatever he or any other 'journalist' in the sport has to say, anyways. Example- see Frau melting down above and wishing good riddance simply because his opinion doesn't line up with hers.

 

[Yazmeen]

Of course people are going to be pissed when content isn't "free" anymore, but there are other outlets to follow skating that they can move to. I am sure there is enough of a TSL following that isn't complaining about fixed incomes, too.

Aside from the few times when TSL has disappeared for a few days (or however long), Dave has kept pretty consistent in his posting, his research, and his pulling big names to discuss events in the last.. 10 years? and even beforehand, he kept his blog running for a long while. It's something that most other people haven't managed to do for one reason or other (putting my hand way up high here as part of that group).

If he wants to monetize (or at least greater monetize) the work he's put in, I say go for it. It was a passion project that really took off to greater levels than any other podcaster or blogger has attained. People are going to be pissed about whatever he or any other 'journalist' in the sport has to say, anyways. Example- see Frau melting down above and wishing good riddance simply because his opinion doesn't line up with hers.

I have no issue with him going to Patreon; if that’s what he wants, I agree, go for it. But maybe he could have given folks a heads up or warning about what he was going to do instead of just pulling a video and dropping it on them suddenly? Just a courtesy maybe?

 

[tony]

I have no issue with him going to Patreon; if that’s what he wants, I agree, go for it. But maybe he could have given folks a heads up or warning about what he was going to do instead of just pulling a video and dropping it on them suddenly? Just a courtesy maybe?

Yeah, he could have. My reply was really just a general thought but I think whether he gave people months of notice or a few hours notice, they'd still be pissed about something going from free to not free.

Regardless, another general thought in this thread is that no matter what any visible skating journalist or blogger or podcaster says, there's always going to be a part of the ridiculously dramatic fandom that melts down anyways. Brennan and Hersh are constantly getting trashed for their stuff. People can't stand what Dave does yet they seem to keep watching? and then complaining Jackie Wong even promoted himself as fair and unbiased but he was getting super biased and controversial during Covid and around 2021 Worlds. That's why I'm quite confident that no matter what Dave did, there would be people beside themselves around the internet.

 

[Tavi]

Did Dave actually say somewhere that all future This and That vids will be on Patreon? Because he posted another Worlds recap on YouTube with Maya Bagriantseva within a day or so of pulling the first one.

Random thought: I always find it funny when people criticize Dave for talking over Jonathan because I more often notice Jonathan doing the interrupting. And he always seems to do it when Dave is about to say something interesting.

 

[Peepsquick]

Did Dave actually say somewhere that all future This and That vids will be on Patreon? Because he posted another Worlds recap on YouTube with Maya Bagriantseva within a day or so of pulling the first one.

Random thought: I always find it funny when people criticize Dave for talking over Jonathan because I more often notice Jonathan doing the interrupting. And he always seems to do it when Dave is about to say something interesting.

Honestly, he has to interrupt Dave, if he wants to get a word in edgewise ...

 

[Tavi]

Honestly, he has to interrupt Dave, if he wants to get a word in edgewise ...

I don’t necessarily agree, but we all see things differently.

I will say that I don’t watch This and That nearly as much as I used to because the format is so much less structured / focused on the competition and the competitors than it used to be when Jenny was on. So often these days the show just meanders into gossip and topics that are often only tangentially related to the competition. That said, I think Dave still does a great job with interviews and he has done some stellar work on doping and abuse issues in figure skating. I wish he would incorporate more of what he does in those formats into the recaps, because these days I often find the recaps boring and turn them off.

 

[marshallpond]

Did Dave actually say somewhere that all future This and That vids will be on Patreon? Because he posted another Worlds recap on YouTube with Maya Bagriantseva within a day or so of pulling the first one.

He said on Twitter on March 27 https://x.com/SkatingLesson/status/1773124579491270819?s=20

I have made a decision to put future recaps and 'This and That' episodes on Patreon. Like many other podcasts and vlogs, I may put some previews on YouTube.

 

[Karen-W]

I agree with @Tavi about the structure of This & That event recaps being rather unfocused and meandering a lot of the time. Both Dave & Jonathan do MUCH better when they have a guest who has a limited window of time available to join them for the recap. The tangents are shorter and they tend to get back to the event recap or the subject matter much faster with another person participating.

 

[Peepsquick]

I don’t necessarily agree, but we all see things differently.

I will say that I don’t watch This and That nearly as much as I used to because the format is so much less structured / focused on the competition and the competitors than it used to be when Jenny was on. So often these days the show just meanders into gossip and topics that are often only tangentially related to the competition. That said, I think Dave still does a great job with interviews and he has done some stellar work on doping and abuse issues in figure skating. I wish he would incorporate more of what he does in those formats into the recaps, because these days I often find the recaps boring and turn them off.

Absolutely agree on everything BUT Jonathan. I get more than annoyed with Dave going on and on about himself and taking his own opinion as the Gospel. The "gossipy" trend is out of control imo. I used to look forward to TSL 's review of the competition... not anymore. I miss dearly the Canadian sisters and their podcast!

 

[Tavi]

He said on Twitter on March 27 https://x.com/SkatingLesson/status/1773124579491270819?s=20

Thank you so much for confirming-much appreciated.

 

[Tavi]

Absolutely agree on everything BUT Jonathan. I get more than annoyed with Dave going on and on about himself and taking his own opinion as the Gospel. The "gossipy" trend is out of control imo. I used to look forward to TSL 's review of the competition... not anymore. I miss dearly the Canadian sisters and their podcast!

I also miss Flutzes & Waxels as well as Ice Talk in its Jackie & Nick incarnation. Since all of the hosts were quite knowledgeable I usually enjoyed their analyses. That kind of analysis seems to be a bit lacking in some of the newer podcasts that have sprung up.

Getting back to TSL, I do think Dave is a lot smarter, more knowledgeable, and better intentioned than many people give him credit for, but IMO the lack of focus, digressions into his own skating, and other stuff that might be interesting/important to discuss in other contexts really detract from the recaps.

I know some people doubt his sincerity with respect to abuse issues, but he’s covered them for a long time both in the context of skating and gymnastics, and in one of his more recent vids on abuse he described being a foreign exchange student, discovering that his then-roommate had child pornography materials (I think that’s what it was), reporting him, and the aftermath. Regardless of whether you like his personality, I do think he deserves a lot of credit for continuing to shine a light on figure skating’s abuse and doping issues.

As to Jonathan, I really like it when he describes the parallels he sees in the opera and skating worlds.

Anyway, my random thoughts on TSL.

 

[overedge]

IMO when I listen to a skating podcast I want to hear about skating. Not about gymnastics or opera. I can listen to lots of other podcasts on those topics.

 

[bardtoob]

Getting back to TSL, I do think Dave is a lot smarter, more knowledgeable, and better intentioned than many people give him credit for, but IMO the lack of focus, digressions into his own skating, and other stuff that might be interesting/important to discuss in other contexts really detract from the recaps.

Reminds me of when he interviewed Tiffany Chin with Jenny years back, and he seemed to equate himself being in high school choir with being a teen elite figure skater. I mean, what was the point of that. Tiffany and Jenny had some of the same coaches and unique life experiences, and there is no reason for someone outside of that to try to prove that they fit in.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I do think Dave is a lot smarter, more knowledgeable, and better intentioned than many people give him credit for

 

[princeton123]

Dave’s annoying because he likes gossip more than he likes skating

 

[Tavi]

IMO when I listen to a skating podcast I want to hear about skating. Not about gymnastics or opera. I can listen to lots of other podcasts on those topics.

Of course. But the relatively few times gymnastics have been mentioned on TSL, it’s usually in the context of abuse, the parallels between the two sports, how they handle abuse, etc. Re opera: as a former singer, I’ve always thought there were a lot of parallels between competitive skating and the classical music world, so personally, I do appreciate it when Jonathan makes those connections. But that’s just me.

 

[canbelto]

The best part of TSL is Dave's in-depth interviews with some people who are otherwise rather private. Like Katia Gordeeva or Elena Bechke. I find all the stuff about judges politicking and behind the scenes gossip sort of tiresome.

 

[Aaron MB Fan]

Re opera: as a former singer, I’ve always thought there were a lot of parallels between competitive skating and the classical music world, so personally, I do appreciate it when Jonathan makes those connections. But that’s just me.

Completely agree! Classical music and orchestra have always been passions of mine. My mom was a musician when she was younger and studied music in school. I definitely inherited her sense of music, rhythm and it was always one of my very best subjects in school, singing in choir and playing in band. Playing instrumental classical music and watching figure skating to classic music always felt so intertwined and so connected to me! Classical music is one of my favourite aspects of skating.

 

[ninjapirate]

Dave’s annoying because he likes gossip more than he likes skating

The gossip is the only reason to listen to TSL. The recaps are shallow and his critique's do as much harm as good.

 

[Sylvia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1778465047045402835

This is ITNY's special Benefit Gala and Performance show on Monday, May 6 that recently added Malinin as a guest skater: https://www.icetheatre.org/2024-benefit-gala-and-performance.html

There also are 2 regular "home season" shows on Friday & Saturday, May 3-4: https://icetheatre.org/2024-home-season-performances.html

 

[skatfan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1778465047045402835

This is ITNY's special Benefit Gala and Performance show on Monday, May 6 that recently added Malinin as a guest skater: https://www.icetheatre.org/2024-benefit-gala-and-performance.html

There also are 2 regular "home season" shows on Friday & Saturday, May 3-4: https://icetheatre.org/2024-home-season-performances.html

When I snarked back he did not take it well.