The Skating Lesson 2018/2019

Erin

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,063
Marta Karolyi was responsible for setting up the training system that enabled Larry Nassar to sexually abuse over two hundred young US gymnasts over a decade or more, and is also alleged to have both deliberately turned a blind eye to allegations made against him by survivors of his abuse, and created and enforced a physically and mentally abusive training environment at the US team's training camp, which she and her husband ran (according to the Wikipedia page I linked to above, they're currently under investigation by the FBI for this). If you remember seeing news stories about gymnasts including Aly Raisman and Simone Biles speaking out in court about an abusive coach, this is what it was about.
So, just to say off the top, I think that Martha Karolyi is a terrible person and I agree that she that she is an abusive coach that should not be held up as a good example. But there is a lot of misinformation in this post. First, no survivor has come forward and directly said that they told her about the allegations about Nassar (as opposed to many people at MSU who were directly told, such as Kathie Klages who has been charged with lying to the police). Some have made comments like "she knew everything that went on at that camp, like what I ate for breakfast that morning, how could she not have known". Which is an excellent point. But most have focused more on the environment she created that allowed the abuse to flourish because it created the environment where people were afraid to speak up. Second, I don't believe the FBI is investigating the Karolyis. The Wikipedia link mentions the Texas Rangers investigating them, which already happened and the Texas Rangers seemed to fall under Martha's spell and specifically mentioned in a press conference back in the summer that the Karolyis were not being charged. The Wikipedia page hasn't been updated since then. Third, Aly Raisman and Simone Biles didn't speak out in court about Martha. Simone didn't even speak in court or send a written statement and to my knowledge, has never said anything bad about Martha. She did say that she was dreading going back to the Karolyi Ranch where she was abused when she went public about being abused, which resulted in it being closed less than a week later. Aly has been very mixed on Martha and has not been one of the athletes that has sued the Karolyis. The athletes that have been more publicly critical of the Karolyis and are suing the Karolyis include Mattie Larson, Jamie Dantzscher, and Sabrina Vega. Mattie and Jamie were probably the most vocal at Nassar's sentencing hearing.

Anyway, the overall point is correct that the Karolyis both suck.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,232
I also think Marta got lucky that the rest of the world's gymnastics programs, especially the Romanian and Russians who were the U.S. biggest competitors, started crumbling in comparison to where they once were and to her and USAG's credit, they were better able to adapt to the open-ended scoring system (which became the Chinese's problem when they changed the rules on uneven bars and the Chinese didn't have another Cheng Fei FX/VT power house type of specialist). When there was huge competition from them, Marta's camp system that resulted in the American team being overtrained, exhausted, injured, and looking worse than they had in the earlier that season would actually lose. They were still able to medal because the depth among the other teams was decreasing to the point that they were already becoming a shadow of their former selves. I think she had to adapt a bit and maybe faced some push back from individual coaches which is why the 2012 and 2016 Olympic teams looked relatively healthier than they did in 2004 and 2008. I also think she was able to take advantage of the pure depth among the U.S. team as if one athlete got injured she was replaced by another.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,840
... somewhat in awe.
Yeah, but can we ever be in awe of Eteri's athletes having sustained careers; and about seeing amazing, mature and balanced skating with complete fully satisfying performances that are non-predictable in the placement of elements?

Let's at least hope :drama: that the latest three Eteri phenoms will beat the odds and grow into mature, accomplished skaters rather than enduring a one-and-done Olympic cyle. :saint:
 

MAXSwagg

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,802
I hate to tell Etery, but the vast majority of DaniiG’s “masterpiece” programs are reallly masterpiece messes.
 

Sasha is DIVINE

Well-Known Member
Messages
817
I am really enjoying the Kimmie Meissner interview. I was never particularly a fan of her skating, but she is very congenial and it is pleasant to listen to her talk about her career.
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,510
Agree! But they get the PCS scores so it becomes a moot point.
I have been on a long journey to embrace the reality that for the most part, music selection and choreo actually do little to drive your mark...including CH, ironically.
 

WillyElliot

Tanning one day, then wearing a winter coat today.
Messages
662
I have been on a long journey to embrace the reality that for the most part, music selection and choreo actually do little to drive your mark...including CH, ironically.
It's obscene, really. Satoko Miyahara has exquisite choreo, really the best (I'm welcome to be told of someone else comparable), and her PCS and CH are lower than 'favorites' or people that outjump her.
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,510
It's obscene, really. Satoko Miyahara has exquisite choreo, really the best (I'm welcome to be told of someone else comparable), and her PCS and CH are lower than 'favorites' or people that outjump her.
Don't even get me started. Everything about her skating is 9+ on the PCS side. Even SS, although she'd be a low 9 as there are more powerful skaters, but she uses the full skating vocabulary with ease like no one else. She's penalized in PCS for small jumps, I'm convinced.
 

ilovepaydays

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,082
:watch: at TSL’s Instagram stories about Ashley Wagner - and her Instagram story reaction. It’s still up on both accounts as of right now.

Maybe I’m kinda mean, but geesh! I get that TSL can get a tad tacky, but she shouldn’t let that stuff get it her. Especially when she’s probably done competing, anyway.
 

NinjaTurtles

Teenage Mutant
Messages
3,548

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
Messages
25,766
The guys who accused Starr Andrews of being a "novelty act" are the last people on Earth who should be dissing someone for "giving white girl quotes".
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,993
Wow! Those are some really rude comments from TSL!

As for Ashley, I do think it got to her if she posted that (though hopefully she'll stay with them blocked). Then again I think TSL has managed to piss off most posters. I wish she wouldn't feed Dave (he's not a troll, he's just a bully), but I get that now that she can say it it much feel good to get back at him for years of bullying her.
Also respect to her for calling them out on the repeating outfits comment. 99% of people repeat outfits so why the heck does TSL find that a reason to insult her? Frankly, it's tacky to call her out on it: I doubt Dave Lease or Jonathan has enough money to wear different clothes every day. Hell, even a lot of instagram "influencers" that have clothes gifted to them for free have more than one day of posts in the same outfit.
 

Icetigger

Well-Known Member
Messages
277
Well done to Ashley for calling Lease out. He is conducting a hate campaign against her.
 
Last edited:

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
5,384
Well done to Ashley for calling Lease out. He is conducting a hate campaign against her.
I disagree. The posts were sardonic to be sure, but the core message is that US Nationals will be bit boring without Ashley Wagner competing this year. It also wouldn't surprise me if the messages between them were coordinated - kind of like a celebrity social media feud - to generate attention and controversy for both. Whether you like her, or not Ashley has never been boring, and her willingness to put herself out there and speak her mind have drawn attention to the sport.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,840
It also wouldn't surprise me if the messages between them were coordinated - kind of like a celebrity social media feud - to generate attention and controversy for both.
Uh, like the skating world really need and can't do without Lease & cohort's bs. :rolleyes:

Ash Swag sure the hell is doing just fine w/o those insufferables. :glamor: :kickass: I very much doubt anybody is standing in line to 'coordinate' with petty DL. :drama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D-SqQV_T04
 

CaliSteve

Well-Known Member
Messages
409
Somebody tweeted that people are more outraged at the Ashley comments then they are about USFSA/Safe Sports news.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,993
I disagree. The posts were sardonic to be sure, but the core message is that US Nationals will be bit boring without Ashley Wagner competing this year. It also wouldn't surprise me if the messages between them were coordinated - kind of like a celebrity social media feud - to generate attention and controversy for both. Whether you like her, or not Ashley has never been boring, and her willingness to put herself out there and speak her mind have drawn attention to the sport.
Nope. Nope. Nope. Ashley genuinely hates them and they said it will be boring without her "drama." Have you heard some of the things they've accused her of? There's no way in h*** she'd work with them in any capacity.

I think the consensus is that Nationals will be more boring without her, but not because of TSL's "drama" (she's only been the direct cause of the drama exactly once: last year). It will be boring without her because she's a great performer.
 

Icetigger

Well-Known Member
Messages
277
If I were a a skater in a rink and a coach or someone acted in the way towards me that Dave Lease does towards Ashley Wagner, I'd report him to Safesport. Bullying within this sport should not be tolerated in whatever form.
 
Last edited:

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
5,384
Nope. Nope. Nope. Ashley genuinely hates them and they said it will be boring without her "drama." Have you heard some of the things they've accused her of? There's no way in h*** she'd work with them in any capacity.
You're probably right, I just don't think there's much reason to take sides in these social media feuds - they're largely fake and overwrought.
I think the consensus is that Nationals will be more boring without her, but not because of TSL's "drama" (she's only been the direct cause of the drama exactly once: last year). It will be boring without her because she's a great performer.
I would say that Ashley has been the centre of drama at US nationals for many years, and that is part of her appeal. Her personality and frankness will definitely be missed.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top