The ISU's New Set Of Judging Rules For Jumps

missing

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The ISU has released the rule changes for next season. Jump elements in singles skating not executed according to requirements will receive a -5 GOE.

 

Tony Wheeler

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This is not a change. The thing with the different layers of how far a jump is underrotated is new and it’s getting more and more meticulous.

And this whole cheated take-off business- if the technical panel can’t distinguish a way to call this or determine what is acceptable, then it’s just giving us reason to see huge separation in GOE between the judges for these elements.

ETA- IFS should know a lot better than to name it based on a rule that changed long ago.
 
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Tony Wheeler

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3Lz base value is down to 5.30- same as the flip.

The 4Lo, 4F, 4Lz base values are all the same at 11.0 now.

This part is incorrect and the only modification was to denote q next to each element in a separate set of columns. ALL base values of all throws have changed in pairs.
 
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Jeschke

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What is does the 'q' mean: 3LoThq ?
I really should read more in the rulebooks I suppose :shuffle:
 

VGThuy

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Was the PCS limit of 8.75 for a “diamond”-level routine with a serious error thing always there for ice dance? If they gave PCS limits for routines with mistakes (I don’t disagree) then I think they should have them for all levels; not just diamond and platinum levels.
 

Jislav

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This is not a change. The thing with the different layers of how far a jump is underrotated is new and it’s getting more and more meticulous.

And this whole cheated take-off business- if the technical panel can’t distinguish a way to call this or determine what is acceptable, then it’s just giving us reason to see huge separation in GOE between the judges for these elements.

ETA- IFS should know a lot better than to name it based on a rule that changed long ago.
Still unclear if toe axel would be called as T<< or T with the deduction for poor take-off. If the later, change will be less penalizing to the skater than before.
 

VGThuy

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I feel like this increased scrutiny is part of the tug-o-war between the judges and the tech panel for control over who determines the winners.
 

Vagabond

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The ISU has released the rule changes for next season. Jump elements in singles skating not executed according to requirements will receive a -5 GOE.

That's not what it says. It's only -5 if there's a fall. It's less if it's, for example, stepping out on a landing (-3 or -4).
 

Tony Wheeler

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That's not what it says. It's only -5 if there's a fall. It's less if it's, for example, stepping out on a landing (-3 or -4).
The first criteria obviously went right over your head- it’s copied word-for-word and hasn’t changed in several years regarding the SP. They shouldn’t have made it their headline, though.
 

rfisher

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It’s new. Hence the meticulousness of how they will now score underrotations. Judges are even supposed to consider -GOE for jumps underrotated less than a quarter.
I see some fan favorites who are serial underrotaters :wuzrobbed a lot. And, even if the quads are devalued, those who under rotate are in the same boat. There are more of the later than there are the former.
 

Tony Wheeler

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I see some fan favorites who are serial underrotaters :wuzrobbed a lot.
But anything that is left solely to the judging panels to decide is going to result in +3 to -3 or even bigger of a spread in almost every single one of those elements.

The technical panel really needs to determine all of this. Don’t get me wrong, even when technical panels marked jumps with symbols noting errors, judges still had wide spreads. But you’re now giving them the ability to pick and choose as they want without looking that out of line.

Also, I’ve said this since the beginning but why does the computer not just void out GOEs and PCS that are not attainable once certain thing happen? If a skater has one serious error, automatically disable the PCS scores they can’t get. If it’s two serious errors, do it again.
 

Gris

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How do you determine if a jump is exactly a quarter underrotated in practice?

The q thing is definitely going to be abused.
 

Tony Wheeler

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I think something went right over your head. The OP said, "Jump elements in singles skating not executed according to requirements will receive a -5 GOE." This is not what the linked image says, and, as you correctly said, this part of the chart hasn't changed for years.
The OP was quoting the Twitter post made by IFS. The very first criteria in said document says exactly this with an SP: in front of it. So yes, that is what it says, but IFS should have done their homework.

And now I see that you know you were wrong. 👌🏼
 

Gris

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This is a change I agree with. Ranking the Lutz higher than the flip just gives an advantage to natural Lutz jumpers over natural flip jumpers.
Well it now gives a disadvantage to those who actually have clear Lutz and Flip edges. :shuffle:

Like, why not just create a new jump called Floptz? The BV for 4Lo, 4F and 4Lz are the same now anyway.
 

Tony Wheeler

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Well it now gives a disadvantage to those who actually have clear Lutz and Flip edges. :shuffle:
While I do think the Lutz is harder, if the panel is doing their job correctly, the skaters will be hit with a reduction of base value and GOE if they can’t do it correctly. But you know it’s oftentimes selective calling with that, too.
 

VGThuy

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But isn’t the Lutz harder than the flip- generally speaking? I mean a true lutz where the skater is actually moving in one direction and then jumping in the opposite.
 

Tony Wheeler

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But isn’t the Lutz harder than the flip- generally speaking? I mean a true lutz where the skater is actually moving in one direction and then jumping in the opposite.
I always thought the flip was easier than the Lutz because of the momentum you get from the three-turn in the flip. I was able to land some doubles. Lutz- never. I know some skaters have come up with Slutskaya-like entrances over the years where they do turn immediately before setting up the jump, but the mechanics to me would still be more difficult.
 

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