The Heir, The Spare and the “Baby Brain” -The Prince Harry and Meghan show rumbles on…

[taf2002]

Meghan also rushed into the marriage - she wanted the level of fame that came with being a member of the world's most famous royal family.

You know what she wanted? You must be an insider. Or omnipotent.

They both have toxic character traits - one of hers is excising people from her life once they've outlived their usefulness.

You mean like cutting out her half bro & sis (whom she already didn't have contact with before Harry - and they didn't have contact with her either) or her father who used her for money? Like the rest of us would embrace toxic family like them.

 

[puglover]

One thing that is somewhat overlooked is that Prince Harry was a much loved and popular member of the royal family. He was regarded as the more approachable one of the brothers, more willing to have a pint with royal correspondents and perhaps even some media, where as William was more hot headed and awkward. You do not need to look far to find endearing pictures of a much younger Prince Harry with correspondents who are very critical of him now. I can see why, especially initially, they were eager to place blame for the change they saw in him on the new character in the family.

Something did happen between Meghan and the staff that resulted in the separation of the two households and Meghan and Harry getting a new staff team. Royal correspondents heard rumours of "bullying" of staff which included allegations from the Press Chief of the Sussexes, Meghan's private secretary and her personal assistant. This split was apparently announced to the correspondents in a very unusual way - conference call with all of them - with a ton of reassurance that all was well and there was nothing to see here. They then describe everyone "walking on eggshells" and rather than throwing them under the bus, they believed it was an all out effort to protect the Sussexes. Victoria Murphy was part of the conversation about this I listened to and although she is considered "pro Harry and Meghan" she agreed with this assessment. It was strange. This situation did involve William and Catherine, in fact they reinstated the press chief, and this may be the catalyst for much that has happened since. Now this may just have been the difference in approach and culture between an American woman free to express and conduct herself how she sees fit and who was now a member of the British Royal Family, an institution with very set rules and protocol. She apparently had a very hard time with not being able to accept personal gifts from those who wanted to give to her. I agree wholeheartedly that she just did not have sufficient time to really understand what she was saying "yes" to and how her life would be.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Why would anyone want to share a staff of people who are invested in the carefully constructed image of a trio, who were ultimately loyal to the future King and Queen and the establishment that paid their bills and gave them prestige, and who were disrupted, personally and professionally by a decision to be a couple, when they couldn’t control the dynamic?

 

[once_upon]

Regarding the thought that the Trio were happy and content - that's the outward picture we saw.

Harry had to feel the outsider. You can't (at least in my experience) have a good relationship when you are the single. You are always going to be the +one for everything. And two will always go off without you at the end of the day.

The notion that Meghan broke up the trio is really stupid. Someone was going to eventually enter into it, unless you wanted Harry to be the lone wolf for life.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The Trio was a lot of people's livelihood, and Harry's presence in it made his brother more likeable, which was essential to public opinion of the monarchy.

 

[Jenny]

Well I for one had high hopes at the beginning that the trio would become a strong foursome. Such a huge potential to really make their mark by combining their efforts, each with their own projects just like the original three had, but united in their desire to lead for the force of good. Not to mention all the gorgeous fashions and jewels we might have enjoyed, but whatever.

I can see where Harry being the third wheel might have not been ideal, but at the same time maybe Kate felt like that at times, and for that matter, given the increasing responsibilities and pressure on William, maybe he felt like the odd one out at times too.

 

[Karen-W]

Why would anyone want to share a staff of people who are invested in the carefully constructed image of a trio, who were ultimately loyal to the future King and Queen and the establishment that paid their bills and gave them prestige, and who were disrupted, personally and professionally by a decision to be a couple, when they couldn’t control the dynamic?

But here's the thing - and this blame should be squarely placed on Harry, not Meghan - they (the Sussexes) were never going to be in a position to "control the dynamic." Whether they continued to share a staff with the Cambridges is irrelevant - Prince Charles was funding both the Cambridges and the Sussexes with the Duchy of Cornwall revenues while he was POW. When they moved their offices over to Buckingham Palace, they were then under the control of the Queen herself. It's not entirely clear whether the staff was being paid by the Duchy of Lancaster (the Queen's estate/holdings) or the Duchy of Cornwall, but none of it was being paid for by the Sussexes themselves - and it never would have been had they stayed. Once Charles became King, it's certain they would have been funded by the Lancaster monies while the Cambridges (William as the new POW) got control of the Cornwall monies.

Additionally, in serving the monarchy as a working royal, you are never, unless you're the monarch, going to be the one calling the shots. It really is, fairly or unfairly, a huge sacrifice of autonomy and control - especially over any public narrative. You are there to serve in whatever capacity.

If Harry didn't "understand" how that works or didn't explain it fully enough to Meghan or give her the chance to experience it close-up in full technicolor before they got engaged, that's on him. It's also on her, for not properly doing her homework or, if she did do that homework, arrogantly thinking she could change any of that dynamic as the wife of a second son.

Regarding the thought that the Trio were happy and content - that's the outward picture we saw.

Harry had to feel the outsider. You can't (at least in my experience) have a good relationship when you are the single. You are always going to be the +one for everything. And two will always go off without you at the end of the day.

The notion that Meghan broke up the trio is really stupid. Someone was going to eventually enter into it, unless you wanted Harry to be the lone wolf for life.

If you've read Spare then this up above was basically confirmed by Harry himself. Behind the garden walls, he was a lonely man living in a small cottage looking across the way to the warm, homey lights of the Cambridges' expansive and luxurious Kensington Palace apartment.

In retrospect, it was a mistake, once William got married, to continue the Royal Foundation of PW & PH and keep their communications staff together. Hindsight is 20/20 but Charles should have moved Harry's office back to Clarence House and impressed upon him at that time that his role and position was vastly different than William's. Perhaps that would have prevented or at least decreased the notion that he and his wife would ever be in a position to control any dynamic.

 

[kwanfan1818]

But here's the thing - and this blame should be squarely placed on Harry, not Meghan - they (the Sussexes) were never going to be in a position to "control the dynamic."

The entire post was about the staff.

 

[Karen-W]

The entire post was about the staff.

Yes - and the point is, Harry was never ever going to be in a position to, ultimately, control the staff. Heck, IIRC, neither Princess Anne nor the Edinburghs have separate communications staff/private secretaries, and Prince Andrew didn't either when he was a working royal. They shared staff with the Queen. The fact that the Sussexes were given any staff of their own when their "household" was moved from KP to BP was novel. Harry was treated, once again, with kid gloves, which has been a recurring pattern ever since Diana died.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Yes - and the point is, Harry was never ever going to be in a position to, ultimately, control the staff.

The point is, the staff was never ever going to be in a position to control him or her.

Why would he or she want staff that is loyal to someone else and to an image he didn't want to be part of? If he was at fault, it was for giving it a try in the first place.

 

[puglover]

So now the staff issues were simply due to the fact that their loyalty was to William and Kate? Hardly answers complaints of Meghan calling her secretary every five minutes on a Friday evening she was out for dinner and other similar situations. I am tired of the whole - this one can do no wrong and this other one can do no right.

 

[kwanfan1818]

So now the staff issues were simply due to the fact that their loyalty was to William and Kate? Hardly answers complaints of Meghan calling her secretary every five minutes on a Friday evening she was out for dinner and other similar situations. I am tired of the whole - this one can do no wrong and this other one can do no right.

Nice way to misrepresent my argument.

Under no circumstances should they have wanted to continue with a staff that whose loyalty was to someone else. People in other businesses know this very well.

 

[once_upon]

Having thought I did a lot of research on duties/expectations on something recently, I can see where Meghan and Harry thought they were prepared. Found themselves not, and also not getting support.

I'm placing part of the (a lot) blame on the Queen, Charles and William. Everyone was focused on preparing William's wife for the monarchy, I think that they thought Harry would understand what it meant for his spouse. By osmosis or something. Some of you seem to think the same - he should have known. Whatever you all think, Harry really has been an after thought throughout his life. After thoughts are supposed to just know - at least that's my experiences with those who were afterthoughts.

When we were in Edinburgh this summet (for the one day we had) - my impression was that the people we encountered were really were proud that Harry and Meghan had a home in Scotland.

 

[skategal]

Having thought I did a lot of research on duties/expectations on something recently, I can see where Meghan and Harry thought they were prepared. Found themselves not, and also not getting support.

I'm placing part of the (a lot) blame on the Queen, Charles and William. Everyone was focused on preparing William's wife for the monarchy, I think that they thought Harry would understand what it meant for his spouse. By osmosis or something. Some of you seem to think the same - he should have known. Whatever you all think, Harry really has been an after thought throughout his life. After thoughts are supposed to just know - at least that's my experiences with those who were afterthoughts.

When we were in Edinburgh this summet (for the one day we had) - my impression was that the people we encountered were really were proud that Harry and Meghan had a home in Scotland.

I agree with this 100%.

BRF severely underestimated how much press H&M would get and how interested/invested the world would be in their life.

To the BRF, Harry was 6th in line to the throne and was expected to be treated as such by the media and people of the world.

Once they realized how much star potential there was with H&M, the train went off the rails from there.

 

[puglover]

At least on the surface, William, Catherine and Harry seemed to have common goals around mental health. They started "Heads Together" to destigmatize mental health issues, mental health legacy programs to help with mental health issues in the work place, "Heads Up" in May 2019 and then the 4 of them initiated "Shout" the 24/7 text messaging service for those with mental issues. Something clearly went wrong and it did not seem anyone had anticipated it. I am not trying to misrepresent anyone here, I just believe whatever happened here was a key factor in where they are now. I am saddened that, at least the royal correspondents I follow, believed that the bond between William and Harry was way too strong for anything to permanently come between them, they now think this will never be healed.

 

[canbelto]

Hmm. A lot of people don't actually like their siblings. When marriage and kids arrive, it becomes an excuse to go LC with siblings. After reading Spare I got the feeling that Harry didn't actually like William, and vice versa. Have a feeling they would have gone LC eventually with or without Meghan.

 

[ballettmaus]

I am saddened that, at least the royal correspondents I follow, believed that the bond between William and Harry was way too strong for anything to permanently come between them, they now think this will never be healed.

I think that would actually make sense. The more you care about someone, the more you get hurt when you get hurt.

 

[MacMadame]

Once they realized how much star potential there was with H&M, the train went off the rails from there.

Some of this reminds me of the reaction of the BRF to Diana's popularity. And, IMO, they bungled that too.

 

[JJH]

Are royal siblings ever particularly close? I never got the impression that Charles was close with Andrew or Edward. Maybe he was with Anne.

Early on the press cast Harry in the role of the bumbling comedic sidekick and William, of course, as the hero. That worked as a narrative for a while, but it was unlikely to continue into their 40s and 50s and 60s etc. This isn't a play. These are real people.

 

[skategal]

Some of this reminds me of the reaction of the BRF to Diana's popularity. And, IMO, they bungled that too.

Yes agreed.

The BRF had to put up with it for Diana (the wife of the heir and future Queen.) Her popularity could reasonably be positioned as a credit to Charles.

But they messed that up too.

There is no way they would put up with this for the wife of 6th in line to the throne.

 

[marbri]

Ignoring all the glittery drama. What I think is interesting is the timing of these public blowups.

Nearly catastrophic car chase through NYC took place right before Harry's court case to get right to pay for police protection when in UK.

Delayed book drop from August 2023 to November 2023 just the week leading into Harry's court case in UK to try to get government to pay for their protection in UK. And how helpful was it that they "mistakingly" gave the wrong manuscript to Dutch where they name people that ends up causing all this drama and anger towards the couple.

If I were cynical I'd say both sides of the Sussex vs BRF fan wars are being played here and there is a very different, very expensive, reason for all this.

 

[canbelto]

Are royal siblings ever particularly close? I never got the impression that Charles was close with Andrew or Edward. Maybe he was with Anne.

Early on the press cast Harry in the role of the bumbling comedic sidekick and William, of course, as the hero. That worked as a narrative for a while, but it was unlikely to continue into their 40s and 50s and 60s etc. This isn't a play. These are real people.

I don't think they can be close when everything is so wrapped up in hierarchy. Like when I see George, Charlotte and Louis together I always think that they'll eventually become estranged.

A rare exception was Elizabeth and Margaret. Despite being very different people, apparently they were close.

 

[Husky]

A rare exception was Elizabeth and Margaret. Despite being very different people, apparently they were close.

I read that there was a strong competition right from the start with M. being (or feeling to be?) the more charismatic woman and that M. had to obey to the Queen's order even in love affairs. But it was a time when few things were directly communicated - maybe the press made it all up. It was before my time, I read only articles, sometimes written decades later.

 

[taf2002]

I don't think they can be close when everything is so wrapped up in hierarchy. Like when I see George, Charlotte and Louis together I always think that they'll eventually become estranged.

A rare exception was Elizabeth and Margaret. Despite being very different people, apparently they were close.

I disagree about Elizabeth & Margaret. I think they were close as kids but after E became queen Margaret struggled (at times publically) at having no autonomy. (Charles & I are close in age so I may have more memories than you during that time.)

 

[MacMadame]

Are royal siblings ever particularly close?

A rare exception was Elizabeth and Margaret. Despite being very different people, apparently they were close.

That's what I was going to say. But Elizabeth wasn't raised to be Queen and I think that makes a big difference.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Elizabeth II wasn't raised to be Queen from birth until she was 10.

 

[MacMadame]

Elizabeth II wasn't raised to be Queen from birth until she was 10.

Charles and William were raised to be King from birth. There is a lot of documentation that Elizabeth found the transition to being treated as a future Queen to be hard as well. I just think it's a very different situation than between other royal siblings.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The entire premise of the "[x]-Up" documentaries is the saying, Give me the boy to seven, and I'll give you the man, so both she and her sister were past that formation point when their uncle abdicated.

 

[canbelto]

Elizabeth and Margaret were also raised by parents who, while not perfect, also were more present for their kids than the usual royal parents.

 

[starrynight]

I used to be quite interested in the gossip around this. But I truly think that it’s all run its course now. It’s all just flogging a dead horse. Harry and Meghan have been out of the royals for 4 years now and are free to make their own way. The royal family itself has continued on with business. There’s sort of nothing left to say.