The Heir, The Spare and the “Baby Brain” -The Prince Harry and Meghan show rumbles on…

Husky

Well-Known Member
Messages
360
Yeah. Which brings up the question why Scobie is still writing about the dead horse. Maybe he should have called it END THE GAME.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,746
So now we discover that not only did the BRF not cut their security when they left, the Queen actually advocated with the government for it to continue :rolleyes:

Pretty much nothing, nothing these two have ever said has transpired to be even close to true in the light of facts.
 

taf2002

Fluff up your tutu & dance away.....
Messages
28,770
So now we discover that not only did the BRF not cut their security when they left, the Queen actually advocated with the government for it to continue :rolleyes:

Pretty much nothing, nothing these two have ever said has transpired to be even close to true in the light of facts.
Where did you learn this? I just read an article at bbc.news that doesn't agree with you. And btw, didn't they have Frogmore taken away from them? So they have nowhere to stay in London that is secure.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,746
Where did you learn this? I just read an article at bbc.news that doesn't agree with you. And btw, didn't they have Frogmore taken away from them? So they have nowhere to stay in London that is secure.

The letter has been submitted to court as evidence. Not only is the Queen advocating for security to be maintained (while acknowledging with a humility sorely lacking in the protagonists we discuss that the government, not her, is responsible for allocating it) , she is also describing the forthcoming role of H&M as the kind of hybrid function they have always whined about being denied.
But if I posted it, would it change your opinion?
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
11,980
The letter has been submitted to court as evidence. Not only is the Queen advocating for security to be maintained (while acknowledging with a humility sorely lacking in the protagonists we discuss that the government, not her, is responsible for allocating it) , she is also describing the forthcoming role of H&M as the kind of hybrid function they have always whined about being denied.
But if I posted it, would it change your opinion?
Wouldn’t that be pretty consistent with what Harry said that the Queen was in favour of their plans initially but others intervened?
 

taf2002

Fluff up your tutu & dance away.....
Messages
28,770
The letter has been submitted to court as evidence. Not only is the Queen advocating for security to be maintained (while acknowledging with a humility sorely lacking in the protagonists we discuss that the government, not her, is responsible for allocating it) , she is also describing the forthcoming role of H&M as the kind of hybrid function they have always whined about being denied.
But if I posted it, would it change your opinion?
yes
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,746


Sir Edward Young [the Queen's secretary] wrote to Sir Mark Sedwill, the then Cabinet Secretary, after the Sandringham summit of January 2020 to explain what had been decided by the late Queen and her grandson.

The letter, included in newly published court documents, reveals how Sir Edward – writing on behalf of the Palace in his role as the late Queen’s private secretary – made the case for the Sussexes’ continued “effective security” as they left the working Royal family.

It invokes the memory of Diana, Princess of Wales, and talks of the threats the Sussexes face from “extremists”.

,,,,

‘Of paramount importance to Her Majesty’
On the matter of the Duke and Duchess’s ongoing security, he wrote: “You will understand well that ensuring that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex remain safe is of paramount importance to Her Majesty and her family.

“Given the Duke’s public profile by virtue of being born into the Royal family, his military service, the Duchess’s own independent profile and the well-documented history of targeting of the Sussex family by extremists, it is imperative that the family continues to be provided with effective security.

“And, of course, the family is mindful of tragic incidents of the past. The discussions to date, including with [the former chairman of Ravec], have been useful in making sure that the parameters of the Ravec process are well understood.

“Of course, Her Majesty and her family recognise that these are independent processes and decisions about the provision of publicly funded security are for the UK Government, the government of Canada and any other host government.”
 
Last edited:

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
58,603
So at what point did the government say "No way, Jose" and did that make the whole plan collapse?
 

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
Messages
36,454
So at what point did the government say "No way, Jose" and did that make the whole plan collapse?
Sometime in 2020, after they left the UK for North America. As far as whether or not it made "the whole plan collapse"... I guess that depends on whether or not you believe everything the Sussexes say without any critical examination of how inconsistent their story has been and how it's evolved over the last nearly 4 years. Their "half in-half out" plan was never approved by QEII and the Duchy of Cornwall financial statements for 2020 & 2021 show that Charles was still giving them pretty significant support until the initial year-long "step back from royal duties" trial period ended. By that point, the government had determined no security if they were no longer working royals who didn't even reside in the UK. The Oprah interview implied that it was the BRF who pulled their security even though that wasn't the case - though Charles wasn't willing to pay their California private security costs (can't say I blame him) and the security they would receive while in the UK would be limited to the same level as Anne, Edward & Sophie, the Gloucesters, and the Kents get - only when they're on public engagements or at major public celebrations (like the Platinum Jubilee events, etc).
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,746
I should have clarified that the hybrid role proposal would not have had them technically as working royals:

“In regard to their Commonwealth patronages, although the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will not be formally representing Her Majesty, they will be undertaking work that is closely associated with Her Majesty and which may appear to the public eye to be very similar to now."

Ultimately the takeaway is, for those who still hadn't figured it out, that H&M are not truthful people or trustworthy as working partners and therefore it is not worth clutching at straws to speculate whether their grievances contain small fragments of truth which may be leveraged against their family members, former friends or employees. They are consistently deceitful.

There is no model, in or out of the BRF, which could have been successful because their behaviour is inherently problematic.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
11,980
I read Spare, I saw the Oprah interview and their documentary.

I always understood that the Queen was supportive of them in the beginning until government logistics got in the way.

This letter doesn’t prove or disprove much to me besides showing that the Queen was the only one in that family that had a shred of common sense.

RIP Queen Elizabeth.

Hopefully Camilla can exercise some influence in there. She seems to know what life is about too.
 

marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
Messages
16,421
I read Spare, I saw the Oprah interview and their documentary.

I always understood that the Queen was supportive of them in the beginning until government logistics got in the way.

This letter doesn’t prove or disprove much to me besides showing that the Queen was the only one in that family that had a shred of common sense.

RIP Queen Elizabeth.

Hopefully Camilla can exercise some influence in there. She seems to know what life is about too.
That must have provided you with a a great understanding of things from all points of view :)
 

airgelaal

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,525
I read Spare, I saw the Oprah interview and their documentary.

I always understood that the Queen was supportive of them in the beginning until government logistics got in the way.

This letter doesn’t prove or disprove much to me besides showing that the Queen was the only one in that family that had a shred of common sense.

RIP Queen Elizabeth.

Hopefully Camilla can exercise some influence in there. She seems to know what life is about too.
To me, this proves that for Harry she was not the Queen, but a grandmother. The Queen and grandmother would act differently.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
11,980
That must have provided you with a a great understanding of things from all points of view :)
I only said that because supposedly this letter from the Queen proved H&M wrong and I am not seeing the inconsistency despite consuming “all the propaganda”. :confused:
 

once_upon

Better off than 2020
Messages
30,260
It seems that some of you want to picture a perfect Royal Family until the wicked woman from the Colonies came in and tore the family apart.

It's impossible for you to imagine that a PRINCE would want to have his own life. It has to be the AMERICAN woman who thought she wanted to be a PRINCESS, like every girl has dreamed of since the happily ever after stories have been read to you. And of course, the AMERCIAN witch has lured the CHARMING PRINCE away with her evil spell.

The BRF is dysfunctional just like every family in the world. The BRF can't have it's own dysfunction without it causing dysfunctional in the press/gossip and awareness of the dysfunctional obsession of society.

Maybe you all have never met a family where one or more of the family members no longer interact/talk/see other family members, but I doubt it. In most of the cases I know, each side tries to explain their side of things. There is always one side who gets the.most support from others.

Whose "lying" here is immaterial except for the media and royal watchers.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,746
It seems that some of you want to picture a perfect Royal Family until the wicked woman from the Colonies came in and tore the family apart.

It's impossible for you to imagine that a PRINCE would want to have his own life. It has to be the AMERICAN woman who thought she wanted to be a PRINCESS, like every girl has dreamed of since the happily ever after stories have been read to you. And of course, the AMERCIAN witch has lured the CHARMING PRINCE away with her evil spell.

The BRF is dysfunctional just like every family in the world. The BRF can't have it's own dysfunction without it causing dysfunctional in the press/gossip and awareness of the dysfunctional obsession of society.

Maybe you all have never met a family where one or more of the family members no longer interact/talk/see other family members, but I doubt it. In most of the cases I know, each side tries to explain their side of things. There is always one side who gets the.most support from others.

Whose "lying" here is immaterial except for the media and royal watchers.
I think you know this is all kinds of an untrue projection.

The BRF have plenty of problems. What bothers me deeply is that the attitude of so many posters I tend to agree with in other spheres seems to be "who cares if what any of H&M say is utterly fabricated and malicious, attacking the BRF / anyone who doesn't love them is a perfectly worthy cause so let's use it as material anyway".
Harry has long ago taken his freedom. His continued lies since are beyond unnecessary.

Unlike you, I believe that the actual truth matters deeply. And that people are not entitled to their own truth.


And that in this case, one side has been doing an awful lot of explaining aka lying, the other hasn't been saying much at all. The aforementioned letter would never have been published if Harry hadn't sued a paper who had the cheek to point out his propensity for lies...
 

once_upon

Better off than 2020
Messages
30,260
The truth matters. But each side has their own truth.

Yes it is projection. From years of marriage. I tried to tell everyone about my father in law. I tried to be in the same house as he was. I broke out in hives, i would throw up, i would cry. I tried to defend myself. I tried over and over again. My fil mother once told me she believed me, but she was going to have to.stand by him. We lived next door to him for about 18 months. Although we were buying the house, when we moved the house was "his" any equity we has in the house was gone. Nothing I could do was going to be "good enough" for his son.

I tried for years because of our children, to know his grandchildren. Eventually I stayed away for my own mental health. I gave up trying to tell people what was going on. I was not believed. How DH and I made it through those years, I'll never know. I truly don't
And i didnt have 75% of the world telling me i was a gold digger. It's impossible for me to not believe part of their story, because i dont believe everything the Royals say can be true.

I was not believed UNTIL one day someone else in the family experienced it. That person learned from me, they only told me and one outsider. I'm the only own they confided in because they saw what happened to me. When my FIL died, they did not attend a memorial service for several other reasons, but they were not believed about that either.

So yeah projection. But everyone else here, has their own projection of a happy trio/royality.

Every person knows a truth. It may or may not be what happened/happens according to all.

I'm just tired of people defending and blaming. I too find it difficult to read what posters I generally agree with.....

I'm going to do what I should have done eons ago, ignore this thread.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,540
I think people really idolize the royal family, and need an easy scapegoat. Meghan checks all the boxes of a villain. Outsider? Check. Divorced? Check. An actress? Check. American? Check. But most of all, POC? Check.

I feel like in the circles that idolize royalty (like Piers Morgan), it's still a huge scandal to not be white.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,540
I think you know this is all kinds of an untrue projection.

The BRF have plenty of problems. What bothers me deeply is that the attitude of so many posters I tend to agree with in other spheres seems to be "who cares if what any of H&M say is utterly fabricated and malicious, attacking the BRF / anyone who doesn't love them is a perfectly worthy cause so let's use it as material anyway".
Harry has long ago taken his freedom. His continued lies since are beyond unnecessary.

Unlike you, I believe that the actual truth matters deeply. And that people are not entitled to their own truth.


And that in this case, one side has been doing an awful lot of explaining aka lying, the other hasn't been saying much at all. The aforementioned letter would never have been published if Harry hadn't sued a paper who had the cheek to point out his propensity for lies...

Yet it's all the fault of the POC (Meghan) right?
 

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
Messages
36,454
The truth matters. But each side has their own truth.

Yes it is projection. From years of marriage. I tried to tell everyone about my father in law. I tried to be in the same house as he was. I broke out in hives, i would throw up, i would cry. I tried to defend myself. I tried over and over again. My fil mother once told me she believed me, but she was going to have to.stand by him. We lived next door to him for about 18 months. Although we were buying the house, when we moved the house was "his" any equity we has in the house was gone. Nothing I could do was going to be "good enough" for his son.

I tried for years because of our children, to know his grandchildren. Eventually I stayed away for my own mental health. I gave up trying to tell people what was going on. I was not believed. How DH and I made it through those years, I'll never know. I truly don't
And i didnt have 75% of the world telling me i was a gold digger. It's impossible for me to not believe part of their story, because i dont believe everything the Royals say can be true.

I was not believed UNTIL one day someone else in the family experienced it. That person learned from me, they only told me and one outsider. I'm the only own they confided in because they saw what happened to me. When my FIL died, they did not attend a memorial service for several other reasons, but they were not believed about that either.

So yeah projection. But everyone else here, has their own projection of a happy trio/royality.

Every person knows a truth. It may or may not be what happened/happens according to all.

I'm just tired of people defending and blaming. I too find it difficult to read what posters I generally agree with.....

I'm going to do what I should have done eons ago, ignore this thread.
Well, yeah, @millyskate is right about you projecting your own life experiences and feelings onto the situation since all we've gotten from the BRF publicly is QEII's "recollections may vary" statement, William's heated "we are very much NOT a racist family" comment, and Sophie's joking "Oprah who?" remark in the immediate aftermath of the Oprah interview and no response since then. The people who have been doing the talking are the Sussexes. So, what exactly do you disbelieve about what the BRF has said in response to every accusation the Sussexes have thrown at them? And why are you convinced that there is any truth to what the Sussexes have said when even the most cursory examination pokes holes in their narrative?
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,540
Well, yeah, @millyskate is right about you projecting your own life experiences and feelings onto the situation since all we've gotten from the BRF publicly is QEII's "recollections may vary" statement, William's heated "we are very much NOT a racist family" comment, and Sophie's joking "Oprah who?" remark in the immediate aftermath of the Oprah interview and no response since then. The people who have been doing the talking are the Sussexes. So, what exactly do you disbelieve about what the BRF has said in response to every accusation the Sussexes have thrown at them? And why are you convinced that there is any truth to what the Sussexes have said when even the most cursory examination pokes holes in their narrative?

In general, I feel as if claims of racism are usually true. Maybe not intentional, but claims of being on the receiving end of a lot of implicit biases are usually true. William's "We are very much not a racist family" rang very false to me, considering POC were not even allowed to work for the royal family until the 1960's.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
Messages
21,829
It's impossible for [some of] you to imagine that a PRINCE would want to have his own life. It has to be the AMERICAN woman who thought she wanted to be a PRINCESS, like every girl has dreamed of since the happily ever after stories have been read to you. And of course, the AMERCIAN witch has lured the CHARMING PRINCE away with her evil spell.

I'd believe that Harry wanted to live like a normal person and Meghan was only interested in Harry the person, if it wasn't for the fact that Harry continues to use his titles, Meghan uses the title she gained upon marriage, and they have insisted that their children be titled too.
 

once_upon

Better off than 2020
Messages
30,260
Sigh
The BRF, and I can only go by the generations brought up by QEII, have a real problem with the wives of the males.

Charles was sent away when the romance with Camilla began. Wisely or not, she married and started her own family. I'm making the projection here (AGAIN bad me), that she didn't thunk she would be accepted as a suitable mate and moved on.

Charles didn't give any Indication he was ready to settle down and produce heirs. Diana was chosen and produced heirs. But Diana wasnt willing to be manipulated and wasn't willing to be part of a farce. And yes both were to.blame.

Andrew, I assume, was pressured to settle down and marry. Sarah just didn't fit the Lady picture, she was too wild, all sorts of objections and gold digger slurs were slung. And who could forget that she manipulated her royal status and use her royal status to make a living after divorce

Oh gawd - Camilla arrived back on the scene. A divorced woman who destroyed the Diana marriage. She certainly wasn't appropriate for Charles again. Couldn't attend functions (at least publicly), enter through private doors.

Catherine was not at first thought to be appropriate for William. I remember those early years and criticism. The gossip rags have now forgotten her "wild days" There certainly was years of preparation and vetting.

Meghan was not thought to be appropriate from almost day 1. Certainly not by William, who will be the monarch. He was the most vocal about it, but I believe many in the BRF didn't approve.

If you've read all of my posts, I've questioned the stories on both sides. I dont think it's every been a POC issue for me. I didn't realize she was a POC, I envy her skin color, I thought (think) she is beautiful. You all don't agree, I just look at patterns. The BRF have patterns of.maligning wives of the Princes.

What I have always objected to and still do is the constant denigrating of Meghan - her supposed manipulation of Harry, the "she thought she would be a Princess and not willing to work",or lazy, benefiting off the RF. All of those.things were said about any of the women who married into the BRF. With the exception of Prince Edward and Sophie, I assume he is too far down the succession chart to worry about her suitability.

Meghan just happens to be the current wicked.

If I live.long enough to see Prince George's marriage choices given to him, I suspect a similar pattern will emerge. Now that females are part of the succession ladder, Princess Charlotte will encounter similar issues.

The BRF interferes with marriages of its succession lines
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
Messages
37,729
I don't remember that either of them has ever claimed to want to live like a normal person or out of the spotlight. There's a huge gap between working member of the British Royal Family and the average person.
 

canbelto

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,540
I remember it used to be considered a big deal that Carole Middleton was once a flight attendant.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information