The Heir, The Spare and the “Baby Brain” -The Prince Harry and Meghan show rumbles on…

[airgelaal]

Harry: I want a family, not an institution
But with titles it’s probably easier to monetize a family

 

[Rainbow]

I would be guilty of engaging in conversation like that with someone I thought was my family. Especially thinking we might bond with things like motherhood. It's obvious Kate and Meghan didn't see eye to eye on being sister in laws.

Except there wasn‘t motherhood to bond over yet at the time. In general things like childbearing, family planning and everything to do with it including mental Health should be off limits unless you‘re sure it‘s not intrusive to the other person.

 

[taf2002]

I have never heard of baby brain used as an insult. It's like "senior moment" - I use that phrase often on myself. I can see myself saying that to someone who is making fun of themselves for doing something dumb. If they took offense I would think to myself "get over yourself." If Kate thought that was offensive then she was looking to be offended. Even if she had never heard it before you immediately know what it means in that context. I don't think that teasing needing to come from an intimate.

But when Archie was born he could have been Earl of Dumbarton, which is one of Harry's "lesser" titles -- this is common in aristocracy, for the oldest son and heir to use one of his father's secondary titles. They said at the time they didn't want that.

Can anyone who has read Spare say if Harry addresses the title thing after Archie's birth? The message at the time was very much that it was by Harry and Meghan's choice that Archie was "Master Archie" with no title. But by the time the Oprah interview happened the message was that Archie was being denied a title and, by extension, other privileges (like security).

Any complaints I heard were that Archie was being denied Prince & the security that come with that title. They didn't want Dumbarton because they figured that kids would make fun of him.

 

[MsZem]

Circumstances under which it is appropriate to comment about having a baby brain: 1. You are the one with the baby brain 2. You know the person with the baby brain well enough to know they'd find it funny, or at least friendly 3. You are referring to the actual brain of an actual baby.

None of these things seem to have applied to Meghan and Kate's situation. And if the roles were reversed, I'm guessing many a chapter in Spare would have been devoted to it.

 

[once_upon]

I tend to agree and can see both sides.

I think Meghan wanted to be liked by Kate. I think she probably believed the hoopla around the "Fab Four" and the press pushing the great friendship of the four. I think she might have thought they had bonded.

Kate had spent years learning to protect herself, not discussing anything with anyone. Hormones are wild with pregnancies. Even worse if you've had difficult pregnancies.

Add in a stress on everyone - wedding.

I know most people want an evil sister and the perfect sister. These brothers are carrying out a drama on the world stage. It was just fine as long as Kate, William and Harry were the Royal Trio.

But eventually the third wheel was going to want love, a family. I doubt anyone was going to be accepted by William, Kate and most of all.the British people. There were major missteps everywhere.

Maybe I'm old, but I remember how everyone loved to hate Sarah..

I have sympathy for all four of them. I dont know any of them, I don't know motives for any of them. I wish that everyone could just see an effed up family and not place blame or make Meghan the evil interloper. But that appears to be just too much

Just call me "Karen" because i choose to look at both sides. But I suggest you might want to look up what it is to be called a Karen.

 

[MacMadame]

But when Archie was born he could have been Earl of Dumbarton, which is one of Harry's "lesser" titles -- this is common in aristocracy, for the oldest son and heir to use one of his father's secondary titles.

Every time I see that title, I think of the Dumbarton Bridge that I used to take every day to go to work and it makes me laugh.

They didn't want Dumbarton because they figured that kids would make fun of him.

The kids would almost definitely make fun of him if he lived here.

 

[MsZem]

I tend to agree and can see both sides.

I think Meghan wanted to be liked by Kate. I think she probably believed the hoopla around the "Fab Four" and the press pushing the great friendship of the four. I think she might have thought they had bonded.

Kate had spent years learning to protect herself, not discussing anything with anyone. Hormones are wild with pregnancies. Even worse if you've had difficult pregnancies.

Add in a stress on everyone - wedding.

This makes a lot of sense to me as well. People, and family relationships, are complicated even under normal circumstances - which life in the BRF is certainly not.

 

[Rainbow]

I have never heard of baby brain used as an insult. It's like "senior moment" - I use that phrase often on myself. I can see myself saying that to someone who is making fun of themselves for doing something dumb. If they took offense I would think to myself "get over yourself." If Kate thought that was offensive then she was looking to be offended. Even if she had never heard it before you immediately know what it means in that context. I don't think that teasing needing to come from an intimate.



Any complaints I heard were that Archie was being denied Prince & the security that come with that title. They didn't want Dumbarton because they figured that kids would make fun of him.

Archie was not being denied Prince. Security does not come with that title. Those complaints were inaccurate.

 

[starrynight]

The situation with the 1917 letters patent was always that once the children were the grandchildren of the monarch, the parents were entitled to use the titles of Prince and Princess.

And now that Charles is king, Meghan and Harry elected to use the titles and now Archie and Lilibet are Prince and Princess of Sussex.

Simple as that.

 

[airgelaal]

The situation with the 1917 letters patent was always that once the children were the grandchildren of the monarch, the parents were entitled to use the titles of Prince and Princess.

And now that Charles is king, Meghan and Harry elected to use the titles and now Archie and Lilibet are Prince and Princess of Sussex.

Simple as that.

At the same time, telling on every corner what a bad monarchy is, how badly they lived in the royal family and how they want to protect children from all this. They could refuse, as Edward and Sophia did. But titles are more important than principles.
I call it hypocrisy.

 

[clairecloutier]

Harry seems to have very ambivalent feelings about the monarchy, in the sense that he doesn't want to be part of it as it currently exists, yet also doesn’t want to totally walk away from it either.

Personally, I think it would be best and most logically consistent if he and Meghan now renounced all their family’s royal titles and claims. BUT, it makes sense from an emotional viewpoint, given the fact that Harry grew up in the monarchy, that he’s still working through what involvement he wants with it.

Also, I would imagine that in regard to his kids, there’s another factor playing in, which is that they were born into royalty, and should they really be denied that? There’s that sentiment these days that “all girls are princesses,” and if you actually deny your kid the right to be a real princess, how do you explain that, and will she resent you for it in the future?

There are definitely arguments both ways, but I feel like I can see some of the dilemmas/issues on his end. I’m not sure I would reach the same conclusion, however.

 

[screech]

There's also the potential that while Harry has his issues with the monarchy, his kids may grow up and want to be part of it, and keeping the titles may assist with that. We know Harry is close with his cousins - their kids may be close as well, leading to a separate link to the Family.

 

[marbri]

Their kids could choose that when they are older I believe, just like Edward and Anne's kids could have chosen to take those titles when they were adults.

But if the rumours of the last few years are true, that Charles might write new Patent letters and slim down the monarchy, then it might be they wanted to lay claim to those now before the coronation. I vaguely recall their being some stories long ago about Andrew and his daughters being livid that Charles might do this and they would no longer have the title princess. Sort of like what the Danish monarch did last year when she stripped her grandchildren of their titles.

A lot more international drama with the BRF so there would be a lot more coverage and opinions if Charles does what the Danish Queen did. Same reasons but the accusations won't be the same.

 

[starrynight]

If Harry and Meghan are going to run a family business off being Royal in the USA without actually having anything to do with the royals, those titles are essential.

Otherwise why would anyone care about the family without the titles? There are lots of hot celebrity families (movie stars, singers) that are more interesting- but the titles are what sets the Sussexes apart.

There’s lots of Hollywood nepo babies in the making, but are any of them Prince and Princess?? No they are not.

 

[Husky]

Meghan in particular made such a big deal about Archie not being given a title (making it out to be a decision that was made specifically about him, which it wasn't, according to existing law any child of Harry's would not be prince/princess until Charles became king), and made an explicit link between his lack of title and them not having security provided for them (when the two things have nothing to do with each other). This was one of their biggest grievances in the Oprah interview.

Is this the reason why you can't find the complete interview on the interview? I read that it was not done on Meghan's or Harry's request but Oprah/CBS had a problem with it and removed it from their website shortly afterwards.

Does anybody know more why the interview disappeared from the internet?

 

[Mugs]

If Harry and Meghan are going to run a family business off being Royal in the USA without actually having anything to do with the royals, those titles are essential.

Otherwise why would anyone care about the family without the titles? There are lots of hot celebrity families (movie stars, singers) that are more interesting- but the titles are what sets the Sussexes apart.

There’s lots of Hollywood nepo babies in the making, but are any of them Prince and Princess?? No they are not.

I agree with everything you said, and at the same time I think it is utterly pathetic to use your children and ridiculous titles to stay relevant and make money. Plus, in the US, who is going to refer to the children as Prince or Princess? Meghan and people magazine - that's it. We are an informal society; we don't use titles. The children are not royalty in this country. The titles really only apply when the children are in the UK. I think those titles will make the children permanent paparazzi bait and will be a heavy burden for them to carry into the future.

 

[starrynight]

Is this the reason why you can't find the complete interview on the interview? I read that it was not done on Meghan's or Harry's request but Oprah/CBS had a problem with it and removed it from their website shortly afterwards.

Does anybody know more why the interview disappeared from the internet?

I think the fuss in the Oprah interview was that Meghan and Harry wanted special provision made to make Archie and Lilibet Prince and Princess straight away, rather than have them wait until Charles was King.

It all seems like a storm in a teacup now that both children are Prince and Princess at the ages of 3 and 1 - still young enough to not even know the difference.

 

[mattiecat13]

Meg also insinuated during the Oprah interview Archie didn’t receive the title due to racism. But it was reported by Omid Scobie after Archie’s birth that Meg/Harry had “forgone a courtesy title” in order to give to give him as normal of a life as possible. I guess cashing in on the children’s titles became more important than the desire they have a “normal life.”

 

[canbelto]

Circumstances under which it is appropriate to comment about having a baby brain: 1. You are the one with the baby brain 2. You know the person with the baby brain well enough to know they'd find it funny, or at least friendly 3. You are referring to the actual brain of an actual baby.

None of these things seem to have applied to Meghan and Kate's situation. And if the roles were reversed, I'm guessing many a chapter in Spare would have been devoted to it.

Also think the situation was made worse by Will and Harry's thorny relationship, Harry's tendency to idolize his wife, and Will's tendency to be bossypants with his brother.

 

[Winnipeg]

It all seems rather petty IMHO, especially given the many serious events taking place in the world.

 

[becca]

Harry seems to have very ambivalent feelings about the monarchy, in the sense that he doesn't want to be part of it as it currently exists, yet also doesn’t want to totally walk away from it either.

Personally, I think it would be best and most logically consistent if he and Meghan now renounced all their family’s royal titles and claims. BUT, it makes sense from an emotional viewpoint, given the fact that Harry grew up in the monarchy, that he’s still working through what involvement he wants with it.

Also, I would imagine that in regard to his kids, there’s another factor playing in, which is that they were born into royalty, and should they really be denied that? There’s that sentiment these days that “all girls are princesses,” and if you actually deny your kid the right to be a real princess, how do you explain that, and will she resent you for it in the future?

There are definitely arguments both ways, but I feel like I can see some of the dilemmas/issues on his end. I’m not sure I would reach the same conclusion, however.

It’s funny but Anne and Edward are working royals and very much in the fold and choose not to go that route with their kids.

Sophie said that it was because they wanted their kids to understand from the get go that they were not likely going to be working royals and were going to have to work hard and have jobs.

I read Princess Anne wanted her kids to have the same understanding.

After all these titles will not come with public role like for their cousins

 

[Lynn226]

Zara Tindall Says She's 'Lucky' Her Parents Chose Not to Give Her a Royal Title

Prince William's cousin said she's glad she wasn't given a royal title

people.com

Zara considers herself lucky not to have royal title. She's done well for herself as an equestrian and her husband has a podcast. I recognize she still comes from a privileged background.

 

[Colleen]

The royal family are kind of the OG nepo babies, aren't they?

I finished reading 'The Spare' (okay, I skimmed lots of it). My takeaway is that Harry has little emotional resilience, wants things his own way and thinks he and his wife do no wrong - it's everyone else who somehow wrong them or block their good intentions.

The media tidbits pre sale were a lot more interesting than the book itself. Hopefully it was cathartic for Harry to write it and air his grievances. I wish he could see what a privileged life he leads - if he was just Joe average, he wouldn't be living in a big house in California, he'd be slogging it out at a boring job worrying about how to buy groceries like most of the population. Granted, he would't have to worry about anyone taking his photograph or being interested in his day to day life. I guess when you grow up with such privilege you just take it for granted. He seemed to think grocery shopping was such an adventure - after a lifetime of it, I don't think he'd feel the same way!

 

[canbelto]

It's not a surprise title's are important to Harry. They were exceedingly important to Diana

 

[Badams]

I don't see an issue with allowing the children to decide for themselves one day. Or with Harry wanting to hang on to his titles. That's the only life he's ever known. I can't help but feel bad for all sides in this issue. This is uncharted waters for everyone. Nevermind everyone who wants to pretend they are somehow in the know when it comes to the royal family. It's kinda of sad that something personal has become so public. I understand the reasoning in making it public. And I understand the reasoning in keeping it private. Neither side is wrong and both are right. I hope Harry and family are welcomed at the coronation. And I hope changes are made in the "institution". But I really hope this family can heal, and be a family again. Regardless of titles.

 

[taf2002]

I find it despicable that Harry's children aren't invited to the coronation but Camilla's grandchildren are. Archie & Lili are Charles' actual grandchildren & Camilla's family aren't related in any way to anyone in the family. Whatever issue Charles has with Harry should not affect his relation with his grandchildren.

 

[MsZem]

I find it despicable that Harry's children aren't invited to the coronation but Camilla's grandchildren are. Archie & Lili are Charles' actual grandchildren & Camilla's family aren't related in any way to anyone in the family. Whatever issue Charles has with Harry should not affect his relation with his grandchildren.

Even more shockingly, Eliza Lopes was in William and Kate's wedding party! How dare they invite such an unrelated person to take part, right?

Camilla's grandchildren are related to her - the Queen Consort. They are also teens/preteens, not toddlers who might have a hard time sitting through a coronation.

 

[airgelaal]

I find it despicable that Harry's children aren't invited to the coronation but Camilla's grandchildren are. Archie & Lili are Charles' actual grandchildren & Camilla's family aren't related in any way to anyone in the family. Whatever issue Charles has with Harry should not affect his relation with his grandchildren.

Legal wife is not part of the family?

 

[taf2002]

Even more shockingly, Eliza Lopes was in William and Kate's wedding party! How dare they invite such an unrelated person to take part, right?

Camilla's grandchildren are related to her - the Queen Consort. They are also teens/preteens, not toddlers who might have a hard time sitting through a coronation.

You mean like Louis? All of William's kids attended important occasions when they were younger. I really don't think age has anything to do with this. And bride's attendants are completely different. It's normal that those can be unrelated people.

 

[airgelaal]

You mean like Louis? All of William's kids attended important occasions when they were younger. I really don't think age has anything to do with this. And bride's attendants are completely different. It's normal that those can be unrelated people.

I don't remember Louis at the Queen's funeral