The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[Debbie S]

I hadn't heard anything about reinstating the QR (please no) but the QR was only for singles, not pairs or dance.

 

[Karen-W]

I hadn't heard anything about reinstating the QR (please no) but the QR was only for singles, not pairs or dance.

Didn't the CD serve a similar purpose as the QR in singles, in the sense that only X number of couples advanced past the CD round to the OSP/OD?

 

[aka_gerbil]

I hadn't heard anything about reinstating the QR (please no) but the QR was only for singles, not pairs or dance.

There were qualifying/preliminary rounds for dance at worlds in 2011 and 2012.

Pairs had one in 2012.

 

[Debbie S]

There were qualifying/preliminary rounds for dance at worlds in 2011 and 2012.

Pairs had one in 2012.

Oh right, now I remember, but that was only for the lower-ranked teams in the WS. The QR I'm thinking of was when all singles skaters had to qualify. I know the ISU has tinkered with it over the years but I think the current version (all skaters/teams skate the SP/RD and the top X qualify to FS/FD) is probably the most fair for the skaters and easier for the LOC. And the officials.

 

[Ena Grins]

I'm not necessarily too bothered with losing the pattern (with the way they've valued GOE over levels, I'm honestly not sure how much difference it will make) but I would still like there to be a technical aspect to the RD that sets it apart from the FD. Otherwise it'll be even more based on reputation and politics than it already is. I like the idea above to require closed holds in at least one step sequence, or I wonder if they'll have strict time signature requirements...

 

[bcash]

What is the point of ice dance if teams aren’t having to learn set patterns? How do we compare teams completely like for like? The point of the pattern is to give teams a challenging series of steps that pushes them outside their comfort zone - without it we know clever coaching and choreo will be able to cover up weaknesses more easily.

But figure skating steps and turns are set. One can always compare technical proficiency of different teams/skaters by looking at how well they do these things.

Some set patterns are fun, some just silly and bear little relation, kinetically speaking, to the actual dance movements they were meant to transcribe. To maintain a balance between substantive skating and choreographic freedom is important for ID as a sports discipline, but that goal shouldn't and needn't depend on a very artificial pool of set steps.

 

[bcash]

My reaction exactly. Watching teams crisply and ably navigate the pattern is my favorite part of ice dance! Without it, all that is left are those boring flowy free programs.

Why do I think that the Gadbois school is probably behind this? They’ve never been big on teaching/perfecting those patterns, and I’m sure would rather not have to bother at all.

They may be yours but they also confuse and bore casual audiences. Not that a sport should base its competition rules entirely on the perception of casual spectators.

Many of the circular step sequences in the FD over the past two Olympic cycles are both more technically challenging, choreographically interesting and aesthetically enthralling than some of the silly set patterns forced on ill-defined themes.

 

[bcash]

and V/M's was much better.

You mean like Moir's cheeky finger pointings and stuff? I find H/D's full-bodied dance and power skating to be much more satisfying, and accomplished.

 

[sap5]

What is the point of ice dance if teams aren’t having to learn set patterns? How do we compare teams completely like for like? The point of the pattern is to give teams a challenging series of steps that pushes them outside their comfort zone - without it we know clever coaching and choreo will be able to cover up weaknesses more easily.

I feel like many fans really romanticize CDs and patterns— suggesting that judges actually used them to compare teams and rewarded skaters that actually did them better. IME, they were just as politically scored as free dances.

 

[Gris]

I feel like many fans really romanticize CDs and patterns— suggesting that judges actually used them to compare teams and rewarded skaters that actually did them better. IME, they were just as politically scored as free dances.

100% this.

That said, I'm not happy with this rumored change - another step of watering down technical requirements to make way for flashy choreographic elements. Also what's the point in having a FD and a shorter FD?

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Actually it was 3 repetitions of the pattern, but the couples were not all skating the same pattern.

No? When they are doing, let's say the Paso Double, they were not all doing the same steps?

 

[sap5]

I just hope that if the lack of pattern is confirmed, the ISU make it a requirement to have one of the step sequences in the RD in closed hold. Otherwise, I fear ice dance is going to continues its trend into hand-in-hand skating with few true ice dance holds in sight.

To me, the lack of set pattern will make the discipline even more subjective than it already is and that the lack of reward for good technical skating and edgework will continue.

While I like closed hold skating, I also would like to see more types of dance shown on ice— and there are lots of dances where closed holds aren’t appropriate. I want to see thoughtful choreography where dancers have really researched their ideas and the choreography. No more just gliding next to each other and calling it contemporary.

Are you suggesting is that all RDs should be ballroom based?

 

[sap5]

No? When they are doing, let's say the Paso Double, they were not all doing the same steps?

Not in the OSP. They would all skate in the Paso Doble theme, but had to create their own steps. That’s how the Golden Waltz was created, for example.

 

[morqet]

While I like closed hold skating, I also would like to see more types of dance shown on ice— and there are lots of dances where closed holds aren’t appropriate. I want to see thoughtful choreography where dancers have really researched their ideas and the choreography. No more just gliding next to each other and calling it contemporary.

Are you suggesting is that all RDs should be ballroom based?

I'd be OK with that - considering that ice dance emerged from ballroom dance, and that skating in closed hold and to a defined rhythm requires specific skills that aren't really being tested elsewhere. The FD provides plenty of opportunity to explore different types of dance. There are lots of different ballroom styles too - 26 patterns for international novice levels and above, so even grounding the RD in ballroom styles has potential for lots of variety.

 

[nuge]

Not in the OSP. They would all skate in the Paso Doble theme, but had to create their own steps. That’s how the Golden Waltz was created, for example.

I always liked Klimova/Ponomarenko's Charleston OSP!Very difficult.Betty Callaway pointed out the difficult parts.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

While I like closed hold skating, I also would like to see more types of dance shown on ice— and there are lots of dances where closed holds aren’t appropriate. I want to see thoughtful choreography where dancers have really researched their ideas and the choreography. No more just gliding next to each other and calling it contemporary.

Are you suggesting is that all RDs should be ballroom based?

Not necessarily that they should all be ballroom based, but that the RD especially should showcase the technical side of ice dance. If the ISU do away with the pattern, I'd like to see more emphasis on the edgework, skating skills and variety of holds in that portion of the competition, not just hand-in-hand or very open skating (which some teams already have quite a lot of in their FDs.)

I also agree with @morqet 's post above, the free dance is open for teams to explore any style or choreography they want; personally I don't want the RD to just turn into a mini FD.

 

[litenkyckling]

Not necessarily that they should all be ballroom based, but that the RD especially should showcase the technical side of ice dance. If the ISU do away with the pattern, I'd like to see more emphasis on the edgework, skating skills and variety of holds in that portion of the competition, not just hand-in-hand or very open skating (which some teams already have quite a lot of in their FDs.)

I also agree with @morqet 's post above, the free dance is open for teams to explore any style or choreography they want; personally I don't want the RD to just turn into a mini FD.

Exactly. If they insist on this move then the least they can do is alter the levels and goe requirements so that you get more points for having more technically challenging step sequences. I find close holds with variety are so much more pleasing to watch too.

I know not everyone likes the pattern element, but from a purely audience perspective I think they're really good for new fans as they are easy to compare and easy to identify.

 

[Peepsquick]

I'd be OK with that - considering that ice dance emerged from ballroom dance, and that skating in closed hold and to a defined rhythm requires specific skills that aren't really being tested elsewhere. The FD provides plenty of opportunity to explore different types of dance. There are lots of different ballroom styles too - 26 patterns for international novice levels and above, so even grounding the RD in ballroom styles has potential for lots of variety.

If we are honest ... ballroom dancing as a model doesn't work very well with the medium ice. When you look at ballroom dancing competitions, it's all stiff legs. How about allowing ice dancers to create their own "vocabulary" of steps on specific rhythms? Just an idea ... easily said than done (I know)!

 

[clairecloutier]

I just find a lot of the compulsories enjoyable to watch, period. The close holds and long swooping edges and classic look are just something we don't really see any more except in compulsories. So I will miss them if they're gone.

 

[taz'smum]

I just find a lot of the compulsories enjoyable to watch, period. The close holds and long swooping edges and classic look are just something we don't really see any more except in compulsories. So I will miss them if they're gone.

Me too, I used to love the really good teams on the compulsories.
I loved the fact that I could see the difference in their levels when they all skated the same steps.
The compulsories really showed what Ice dance is all about, steep and flowing edges, moving as one, and really interpreting the music.

 

[Belsornia]

Exactly. If they insist on this move then the least they can do is alter the levels and goe requirements so that you get more points for having more technically challenging step sequences. I find close holds with variety are so much more pleasing to watch too.

My number one wish for ice dance scoring is that they weight the GOE score in line with the level achieved on the element.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't understand why casual viewers should be dictating the technical requirements. For the most part, networks didn't televise school figures or compulsory dances, so the casual viewer wouldn't see them on network TV. They could always skip the RD's if they wanted to, just like now. Similar to CDs or OSPs. And casual viewers wouldn't have to watch those streams, either.

 

[sap5]

I don't understand why casual viewers should be dictating the technical requirements. For the most part, networks didn't televise school figures or compulsory dances, so the casual viewer wouldn't see them on network TV. They could always skip the RD's if they wanted to, just like now. Similar to CDs or OSPs. And casual viewers wouldn't have to watch those streams, either.

How do the ISU and skating feds make most of their money? Do they need money from audiences/ticket buyers/etc? Or is that just extra profit and money they get from governments/elsewhere enough? If they need fan money, are hardcore ice dance fans enough of a revenue stream?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Which casual viewers are filling in the coffers? The locals who are banging down the doors to fill arenas for competitions, not the exhibitions, no matter where the event is? The people who travel or attend full events are the ones with time and money to do it and are not the casual fans. The people who volunteer are generally not the casual fans.

Removing the pattern dances aren't suddenly going to get the US networks to start throwing money into the TV contracts, and if multiple Worlds and Olympic medals -- all Olympics since 2006 -- aren't getting to get US TV networks to promote dance, do you think this change will, one that casual fans will even recognize as a change? Russian fans watch everything, and I'm not sure Japan TV promotes Ice Dance, at least until Takahashi returned, and then the RD is one more chance to see Takahashi, regardless of what's in it.

 

[Andora]

That’s funny considering H/D’s Janet Jackson was pretty much a dupe of V/M’s Prince.

I liked both.

and V/M's was much better.

Logically I understand the comparison, but I don't see how the programs were that alike. They evoked such a different vibe with their song choices from each artist. As comparable as the teams are in terms of style, I'm not sure V&M would do H&D's Janet RD any more than H&D would pull of V&M's Prince RD.

I just want more good hip hop and R&B programs, really. Emphasis on good.

I feel like many fans really romanticize CDs and patterns— suggesting that judges actually used them to compare teams and rewarded skaters that actually did them better. IME, they were just as politically scored as free dances.

God, THANK YOU. I can appreciate the times I was able to see how D&L weren't quite up to their competitors level thanks to CDs, at least until retirements leveled the playing field a bit. But despite many a fluff piece explaining the pattern, or commentator pointing out key points, I don't remember them being some bastion of ice dance judging justice. Anymore than patterns are judged now.

I do remember some CD costumes (NOT waltz/polka related) were killer, though. And CDs gave us this one shining moment from Domnina & Shabalin at Vancouver.

I'm a big fan of moving away from JUST ballroom patterns, because they're limiting without payoff, and often boring AF. I'd love to see Ice Dance to at least continue paying lip service to modernizing away from that, while maintaining some truly comparable technical aspects. I liked the suggestion of creating new set patterns, for one.

And count me in as caring what the casual viewer thinks. I want more fans of this sport, not less.

 

[manhn]

I want to see Gilles and Poirier’s new pattern so if they have to eliminate the pattern portion do it after theirs is performed one season.

For me, I find the RD way too broad in what they allow teams to perform. I want them to restrict the type of music and dance they can perform, whatever the theme is for that year.

 

[Karen-W]

And Ichilov/Byelikov are no more...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcTGagoqi5_/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

She's looking for another partner.

 

[clairecloutier]

That is a bummer about Ichilov/Byelikov. They just missed the cut for the FD at Worlds and definitely stood out among the lower-ranked teams. Oh well. Hope Shira finds another partner. I like her as a dancer, she's charismatic.

 

[hlimfan27]

I want to see Gilles and Poirier’s new pattern so if they have to eliminate the pattern portion do it after theirs is performed one season.

For me, I find the RD way too broad in what they allow teams to perform. I want them to restrict the type of music and dance they can perform, whatever the theme is for that year.

Have we seen Piper and Paul perform the March? I was looking for a video of it but couldn’t find one:/ would love to see it

 

[hlimfan27]

That’s funny considering H/D’s Janet Jackson was pretty much a dupe of V/M’s Prince.

I liked both.

I wouldn’t say it was a dupe as much as HD (and their team) learned from what worked and didn’t work across the SDs from the 2016/2017. They went a similar direction as VM’s Prince with packaging fully dedicated to/inspired by one artist. Admittedly I was skeptical after their first couple outings with it, but you can tell they loved their material and by the end of the season were skating it confidentially and excellently.