The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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Amantide said:
Oh, If go and dig on Golden Skate, I'm sure I can find all the discussions we made, back then, about her statements. You're not missing anything though, the usual Besti. :rofl:

I&Z (Elena and Ruslan). At the time they were S&B's direct rivals and Bestie was going hard after them. After Elena in particular, spreading rumors about a lot of things too. :slinkaway I bet she will do the same with S&K, if they finish above S&B here. lol
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Love your comments. Please keep them coming!
 
Amantide said:
Yup! S&K above S&B, thanks to levels and components.
Let the drama begin. :watch:
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Fedex some Bayer aspirin fast. But in all seriousness, how can they have been scoring them S/B so generously all season and then be so far behind now? Or is it with all this unnecessary hype S/B just made too many uncharacteristic mistakes. I'm not necessarily their biggest fan but they must feel a bit gutted, maybe Besti and le TAT might lay off the excessive press in future. Anyways, congrats to all the medalists, unto the next siting of P/C. :gallopin1
 
Bigbird said:
Fedex some Bayer aspirin fast. But in all seriousness, how can they have been scoring them S/B so generously all season and then be so far behind now? Or is it with all this unnecessary hype S/B just made too many uncharacteristic mistakes. I'm not necessarily their biggest fan but they must feel a bit gutted, maybe Besti and le TAT might lay off the excessive press in future. Anyways, congrats to all the medalists, unto the next siting of P/C. :gallopin1
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In all seriousness, I am very surprised too. I have to check both couples again. I was too busy between here and twitter (going crazy there lol) having fun. :lol: But I still prefer S&B programs tbh.

p.s. S&K, G&F, and S&B all higher base value than H&D.
 
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Bigbird said:
Remember they won it at SC over H/D :). I don't know if the judges really love their FD or if they really dislike H/D's which they've recently changed. The mysteries of mysteries within our lovely ice dance competition. Haha..
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IMO a bit of both.
H&D program is a total miss. I've been saying it since they've first showed it. It's not them, it's not working for them and it won't work in the long run. And the RD is the same.
Both program are a miss. What worked last season is that their FD was 100% them. We are here at best at 50%. And judges can't ignore that. They'll pay that later on.

S&K I just can't like Nikita, but he really is one of the best ice dancer out there. They have a fantastic RD, and a decent FD. I'd have them win the GPF to be fair.
 
Bigbird said:
Remember they won it at SC over H/D :). I don't know if the judges really love their FD or if they really dislike H/D's which they've recently changed. The mysteries of mysteries within our lovely ice dance competition. Haha..
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No the judges really love H/D. H/D got the lowest base value out of all teams in the free dance, but they got much higher PCS and GOE. If the judges wanted to ding them, they could have -- but they certainly didn't.
 
kittysk8ts said:
Press conference comments from Twitter

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1071619697576075264?s=21

Maddie addresses the lost levels.
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Hubbell/Donohue: Going into this event, Zach and I had a goal to put 100% into our performance and not be afraid of losing tech levels. That's what we did, and that's what happened. We lost levels but our performance improved.
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So it's literally a coaching approach that the levels don't matter any more? I guess we knew that, but it's something to hear it said out loud. I thought this was meant to be a sport.

There's nothing wrong with H/D's performance quality (they are known for it) -- why would they need to abandon tech to focus on it?
 
starrynight said:
So it's literally a coaching approach that the levels don't matter any more? I guess we knew that, but it's something to hear it said out loud. I thought this was meant to be a sport.
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I don't think what she said matches with how you're interpreting the statement.

I'm pretty sure she's saying that they wanted to finally lay out a performance they were happy with, and if the levels suffered and they didn't win, that would still be worth it. They wanted to nail the performance aspect first and then work on the levels after.
 
kittysk8ts said:
It’s interesting isn’t it. Maybe somewhat to do with the total revamp of the beginning as well.
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Well, H/Ds Rhythm Dance levels dropped too.

We were wondering if there was an issue in Gadbois with the coaching of the tango romantica levels ... but maybe they are just encouraging the skaters to go for performance instead. After all, the difference in base value for the levels is tiny and is easily covered with GOE.
 
starrynight said:
So it's literally a coaching approach that the levels don't matter any more? I guess we knew that, but it's something to hear it said out loud. I thought this was meant to be a sport.

There's nothing wrong with H/D's performance quality (they are known for it) -- why would they need to abandon tech to focus on it?
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I remember an interview with an older dancer I once loved - Staviski I think. Who basically said that none of the great teams of his day would have hit those key points.

But the sport really has to decide what to prioritize. Every way of making the judging more technical and objective costs the dancers emotion and creativity. So choose, ISU, what’s important.
 
starrynight said:
Well, H/Ds Rhythm Dance levels dropped too.

We were wondering if there was an issue in Gadbois with the coaching of the tango romantica levels ... but maybe they are just encouraging the skaters to go for performance instead. After all, the difference in base value for the levels is tiny and is easily covered with GOE.
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Ya, we need to get some new coach interviews.
 
kittysk8ts said:
It’s interesting isn’t it. Maybe somewhat to do with the total revamp of the beginning as well.
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At some point the rules will probably change again to make levels matter more and then later again that lessens their importance. Rinse and repeat over and over and over :scream:

That's the problem with COP, not just in dance, but in all disciplines. COP is over ten years old but they keep fiddling with the system and flipping their stance on things over and over (like quads in the men's) almost every season. How can you take the system, scores, or the judges seriously if they can't be consistent :confused: At some point things have to set in stone, right? :shuffle:
 
But isn't disregarding the levels an incredibly risky approach? Even with the new way scoring works? S/B seemed to suffer here from a tougher panel and judges that weren't so keen to boost them. Or perhaps just from meeting all their strongest competitors for the first time?

And with H/D as well: They've left the impression here that S/K are gaining ground on them. They are the reigning World silver medalists and SinKats were out injured/didn't even make it to Worlds. How is that good for them? They should have pulverized the competition here tbh.

And you could also argue that G/F made the podium on the strength of their levels. So it's not like they have become totally meaningless.
 
starrynight said:
After all, the difference in base value for the levels is tiny and is easily covered with GOE.
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This is true, and while I doubt the Gadbois coaches are disregarding levels, I imagine they are emphasizing the performance and presentation/polish aspects more than in the past. The emphasis in judging/scoring is shifting to the judges more than the tech panel, so the teams that will win (particularly with top teams achieving 3s and 4s on everything) are those that can maximize GOEs and PCS.
 
^agree. I think it's normal for skaters to set a tangible goal to accomplish at every competition, this time they decided to focus on the performance (which for example lacked a bit at skate Canada imo). They've been mentioning loss of levels in every interview so I'm sure they and their teams are aware that's what they have to work on. Given all the changes, maybe it makes sense to finalize the programs first and then focus on the levels.
 
starrynight said:
No the judges really love H/D. H/D got the lowest base value out of all teams in the free dance, but they got much higher PCS and GOE. If the judges wanted to ding them, they could have -- but they certainly didn't.
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I guess. I just find it all confusing. I find S/K's dance clean, pleasant and nearing the three minute mark I'm looking for some umph, I am not explaining myself as properly as I'd like to. Anyways..off to scratch my head and watch the pairs duke it out. Onwards and upwards!! :gallopin1
 
Between the RD and the levels and the new scoring, I'm not taking any of these results too seriously. It is only the GPF in a post Olympic season. A lot of things will probably shift by Worlds and into next year. Several of the experienced teams have retired or sitting out. Everything is in a state of flux which is a bit unusual for ice dance.
 
chameleonster said:
I think I might be feeling more up in arms about this if H/D had lost levels on the steps, but they didn't. It was the spin, I'll have to double check what the problem was. With a L4 their BV would have been the highest.
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Well, they had the lowest base value of all the teams in the FD (level 2 spin and level 3s on both step sequences). Their levels in the RD went backwards too (to a level 1 and level 2).

BUT with lower levels in the rhythm dance they actually got a seasons best. So that's the scoring system for you. Gadbois know how to hack the judging system - that's their speciality.

The problem with ice dance is that not hitting any of the key points in the pattern dance is not the same thing as electing to do a perfect triple over a shaky quad. You're just not doing the pattern dance properly and you're making mistakes. The scoring system does not work for dance.
 
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