The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

[Wyliefan]

I really wanted to love it, because I love them and I love Gershwin and I love Charlie and Tanith. But I'm afraid right now it's feeling like less than the sum of all those good things. I hope they can rework it and make something better out of it. As others have said, it's not the music's fault. It's good music. The program just needs to live up to it.

 

[firstflight]

Like I’ve posted, if T/T are going with that much spoken word in their program, I’d love to see G/Par include snippets of a United Airlines safety video in their FD.
“By now you’ve stowed your carry on luggage..” “Remember, your nearest exit could be behind you..”
It would certainly make the program more memorable, if for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Rukia]

I think it is the music's fault in this case, or rather the music's editing. Part of the problem with something like Rhapsody in Blue it cutting it down to something that's still cohesive, but in this case I think they kind of miss on any real type of highlights and maybe don't quite nail down the different moods. It'd be easier to chop down something like Copland's Clarinet Concerto (cpom seriously call me I have ideas).

But y'all had me thinking this was going to be much worse than it actually was. I think they'll do fine, they just look like they weren't quite ready for competition honestly.

 

[Karen-W]

I think it is the music's fault in this case, or rather the music's editing. Part of the problem with something like Rhapsody in Blue it cutting it down to something that's still cohesive, but in this case I think they kind of miss on any real type of highlights and maybe don't quite nail down the different moods. It'd be easier to chop down something like Copland's Clarinet Concerto (cpom seriously call me I have ideas).

But y'all had me thinking this was going to be much worse than it actually was. I think they'll do fine, they just look like they weren't quite ready for competition honestly.

Oh, I don't agree with regard to GrePar's music edit. It still hits most of the major highlights and really builds in the last minute of the program - but GrePar do absolutely nothing with the natural crescendo they have in the music edit.

 

[barbarafan]

I wouldn't put it on IAM, I remember Patrice Lauzon being super vocal against the suggestion to remove patterns in the past. My bet is that it's an attempt to make the RD feel more fresh and interesting and less limiting (it fails of course).

From previous yrs. it looks like Patrice likes to get the look, feel,smoothness,speed and emotions out there on the first outings of a RD and then drill down on the yes, no's .

 

[litenkyckling]

From previous yrs. it looks like Patrice likes to get the look, feel,smoothness,speed and emotions out there on the first outings of a RD and then drill down on the yes, no's .

Which is a great strategy for teams that are almost guaranteed a season behind nationals - not so much for the rest

 

[Rukia]

Oh, I don't agree with regard to GrePar's music edit. It still hits most of the major highlights and really builds in the last minute of the program - but GrePar do absolutely nothing with the natural crescendo they have in the music edit.

It didn't hit my favorite parts and that's what matters!!! I also kind of blame choreography because I think they are trying to be too lyrical in places where they shouldn't. But then I just wonder how much of this is just "we started late so we are still working on this I guess"

 

[TanithandBenFan]

G/P did comment in their Anything GOE interview that the choreo is very much a work in progress.

 

[cocotaffy]

It's been a while since I laugh out loud watching a program so thank you to the Taschler's for this. I mean if there was a Eurovision for figure skating they'd be the stars.
Also well done to the Danadians, very crisp and so well packaged this early in the season. Their presentation and intensity show they want the podium.
Not sold on the other programs, Green and Parson are a bit of a disappointment after last year. Also I can't exactly put my finger on it but something about their presentation and poise still look quite juniorish. She is still young of course but I feel the risk of a possible Stepanova/Bukin syndrome who just looked juniorish for so long.

 

[sk9tingfan]

It's been a while since I laugh out loud watching a program so thank you to the Taschler's for this. I mean if there was a Eurovision for figure skating they'd be the stars.
Also well done to the Danadians, very crisp and so well packaged this early in the season. Their presentation and intensity show they want the podium.
Not sold on the other programs, Green and Parson are a bit of a disappointment after last year. Also I can't exactly put my finger on it but something about their presentation and poise still look quite juniorish. She is still young of course but I feel the risk of a possible Stepanova/Bukin syndrome who just looked juniorish for so long.

Cross-referenced from the Finlandia Dance thread:

Last year, they started competing in early August as opposed to this year,2 months later. This year they changed coaches and choreographers, training and living environments, so perhaps their decision was to limit technically and artistically what they are capable of.

While they may not be skating to the fullest of their abilities, I'll not fault them for changing their coaches. It had to be very upsetting to have Diana & Gleb show up, especially because they had made such significant strides last season. Also, like Carreira and Ponomarenko who elected to leave Shpilband, this is most probably a four-year transition strategy.

 

[hlp728]

In their interview with Anything GOEs, Green/Parsons, it sounded like Green/Parsons had less say on the choreography with their programs this season. I get they wanted to do something different than last year’s FD, but what about Rhapsody in Blue made them say this what we should pick this
music. Other than the spin, nothing standouts out choreography wise. You can modernize a classic like An American in Paris and have interesting choreography and costumes. A good example is the 2015 Broadway production of An American is Paris. Green/Parsons could even go more of Disney’s Fantasia 2000 plot for Rhapsody in Blue which has a great figure skating scene. Heck they could add a monologue à la the movie Manhattan to the beginning of the FD. Their RD is also uninspiring more so the music than choreography. They could have done something music wise like a merengue to Olga Tañón’s “Es Mentiroso” and a bachata to Xtreme’s “Te Extraño.”

The Midas school seriously needs to add some creative choreographers to their team.

The junior FDs this week were great from the Red Violin, Mumford and Sons/Baaba Maal, Spartan cheerleaders FD, etc.

 

[sap5]

Green/Parsons said their choreography is a work in progress, so maybe much will change as the season goes on.

 

[thvu]

In their interview with Anything GOEs, Green/Parsons, it sounded like Green/Parsons had less say on the choreography with their programs this season. I get they wanted to do something different than last year’s FD, but what about Rhapsody in Blue made them say this what we should pick this music. Other than the spin, nothing standouts out choreography wise. You can modernize a classic like An American in Paris and have interesting choreography and costumes. A good example is the 2015 Broadway production of An American is Paris. Green/Parsons could even go more of Disney’s Fantasia 2000 plot for Rhapsody in Blue which has a great figure skating scene. Heck they could add a monologue à la the movie Manhattan to the beginning of the FD. Their RD is also uninspiring more so the music than choreography. They could have done something music wise like a merengue to Olga Tañón’s “Es Mentiroso” and a bachata to Xtreme’s “Te Extraño.”

The Midas school seriously needs to add some creative choreographers to their team.

I totally agree. My biggest criticism about WIDA was how poorly they packaged their teams. I admittedly was glad to see Green & Parsons go, but their programs this season are a MAJOR step down in terms of choreography and creativity. Their elements just seem completely like after thoughts. They're skating like they're a brand new team, not a team on Year 4 of their partnership. The elements are cautious. They've cut way back on transitions. And wow, that Choreo Steps just completely lacked anything dynamic. Most of us could come up with something on par or better than that. I was shocked by the poor design and construction of their Rhapsody FD.

One of my biggest gripes about certain coaching teams is the inability to construct elements that deserve high GOE. Look at the stationary lift in the FD. What is her position and why is it so inelegant? Why is the element designed to where it is almost impossible to translate any power/momentum into rotational speed? Their elements overall are lacking speed on the exits. Everything feels so stop & start. Their low scores make total and complete sense. None of their elements deserved higher than +3, and even that's scoring generously.

Were Green and/or Parsons injured over the summer? It felt like watching a team still in Juniors.

 

[her grace]

Well, Green/Parsons have thoroughly squandered their advantage from last season. So let's see what they do from here. I do think that Green's posture and carriage have improved significantly since last season. But there's so much to do on speed, edge quality, making the elements look natural and not so careful, and making the rather boring choreography sing. Either they need better choreography or they need to sell this more.

Hawayek/Baker look ready to go for the season. Solid U.S. #2 and doesn't look like any American team should be able to challenge them. Pate/Bye certainly don't have the technical chops to do so and they're looking the best prepared of any other American team.

Interested to see if F-B/S can pass Gilles/Poirier?

And the Taschlers--it's time to remove the voiceovers. The judges hate it. You can care for the planet with pretty music alone, please.

 

[Bouffantrex]

I realize this will be characterized as an overreaction, but Green/Parsons should promptly cut their losses and dump this Gershwin FD. Reworking choreography won't help when there's not much there to begin with. Go back to last year's FD, slightly adjust the choreography, new costumes, and continue to focus on building the speed and basics.

 

[Colonel Green]

I realize this will be characterized as an overreaction, but Green/Parsons should promptly cut their losses and dump this Gershwin FD. Reworking choreography won't help when there's not much there to begin with.

I don't agree here. Programs regularly change, often quite significantly, over the course of a season. I don't see any reason why they can't build more into this program, though I admit it is a bit underwhelming for them to find themselves in this position given the rise they seemed poised for at the end of last season and that things ended for them after 4CC.

 

[Andrea82]

And the Taschlers--it's time to remove the voiceovers. The judges hate it. You can care for the planet with pretty music alone, please.

They can keep the first 15 seconds of voice-overs at the beginning to set the theme and that's it. They should stop the voice-overs before the "I am the ocean" as an entry of a lift.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

They can keep the first 15 seconds of voice-overs at the beginning to set the theme and that's it. They should stop the voice-overs before the "I am the ocean" as an entry of a lift.

Weirdly, I kind of like the last section of voiceovers, where they talk about Ice and its properties. Maybe keep the brief intro plus that. After all, all these skaters spend their lives surrounded by ice!

 

[Ena Grins]

I don't dislike all of MIDA's programs this season - I actually really like Wolfkostin/Chen's FD and think it could be great by Nationals. But I have to agree that none of their other programs really have me excited or invested yet (neither do any of the ones from Shpilband's teams of the Wheaton teams, FWIW). I liked the idea of Green/Parsons doing Rhapsody in Blue, so I was disappointed that I couldn't get into it.

I've honestly been wondering if MIDA took on too many higher-profile senior teams too quickly. They're still new and probably are still figuring a lot of things out about running their own school, even with Charlie, Tanith, and Greg's experience indepedently.

EDIT: Because I find it really humorous/dumb how fans will pronounce something a total success or failure after one exact competition (sometimes half a competition), I'll add that G/P said in their Anything GOEs interview that these programs are really new to them. Choreography as well as G/P's comfort with the program will change. Back in 2015, the Shibutani's had a really not great season debut at Ondrej Nepela Trophy with...Fix You. Suffice to say their season wasn't over after one performance.

 

[Icetalavista]

Thank you, Ena Grins, for the voice of encouragement re GrePar. I have to wonder if the Whites & Zuerlein, along w/ G/P, chose a conventional FD so they could focus on skating technique rather than expression as they make this coaching change. I hope it's part of a long-term strategy. I seem to remember that G/P had input into the Martha Graham FD? Or if someone else did most of the choreo, maybe use that person for future FDs. What other choreographers might work for them, if the current team does end up giving them consistently conventional choreo? Shae-Lynne? Christopher Dean? I'm curious.

 

[Bouffantrex]

I would love to be wrong about Green/Parsons. But I cannot deny my disappointment with this program, it is such a comedown after being immediately captivated with last year's Ezio Bosso FD.

 

[Andrea82]

Judges draw "by number" for 2023 ISU Championships took place last week.

Ice Dance judges (I insert the name when that ISU member doesn't have any other option)

Worlds

Australia
Czech Republic
Estonia (Larissa Shuljatjeva)
Finland
France
Great Britain
Hungary
Israel (Albert Zaydman)
Italy
Lithuania (Laimute Krauziene)
Poland
Switzerland
Ukraine

Europeans

Azerbaijan (Yuri Kliushnikov)
Czech Republic
Spain
Estonia (Larissa Shuljatjeva)
France
Great Britain
Germany
Hungary
Italy
Lithuania (Laimute Krauziene)
Netherlands (Jeroen Prins)
Poland
Switzerland

4 Continents

Australia
Canada
China
Estonia (Larissa Shuljatjeva)
Great Britain
Japan
Lithuania (Laimute Krauziene)
New Zealand (Sandra Williamson-Leadley)
Poland
USA
(new rule raised to 10 the judges named for 4CCs. Two will serve in only one segment)

Alternates: Italy, Netherlands, Germany, Austria

*4 Continents ISU Members have a priority here. Looks like Kazakhstan and South Korea didn't enter the draw)

Junior Worlds

Austria (Stefan Grampelhuber)
Czech Republic
France
Great Britain
Georgia (Yulia Levshunova)
Hungary
Israel (Albert Zaydman)
Italy
South Korea
Switzerland
Slovakia
Turkey (Tanay Ozkan Silaoglu)
USA

https://isu.org/figure-skating/rules/fsk-communications/29695-isu-communication-2515/file

 

[BlueRidge]

Weirdly, I kind of like the last section of voiceovers, where they talk about Ice and its properties. Maybe keep the brief intro plus that. After all, all these skaters spend their lives surrounded by ice!

They need to drop the newsreel part at the beginning. That's what sets the stage for the whole thing not to be taken seriously. We all know all that. Let's try a little nuance. Ice voice is okay but less of it. This thing can work, unless you really hate that climate change is serious.

G&P could certainly have started out stronger but I think their programs have strengths and they will build on them. They need to dump the traditional costumes for Gershwin and try something more creative.

I love both programs for FB&S, they were so sharp. And give me my man-eating mermaid!!

Thanks to @Wyliefan for posting the I love lucy clip. I love that, but I didn't get much of it from H&B. I don't know what the music is for the their FD but I find it dull and the vocal part cringeworthy. I thought that FD was never going to end.

ETA: lovely skating from L&B over in France, but that dance needs more character.

 

[skatfan]

I don't dislike all of MIDA's programs this season - I actually really like Wolfkostin/Chen's FD and think it could be great by Nationals. But I have to agree that none of their other programs really have me excited or invested yet (neither do any of the ones from Shpilband's teams of the Wheaton teams, FWIW). I liked the idea of Green/Parsons doing Rhapsody in Blue, so I was disappointed that I couldn't get into it.

I've honestly been wondering if MIDA took on too many higher-profile senior teams too quickly. They're still new and probably are still figuring a lot of things out about running their own school, even with Charlie, Tanith, and Greg's experience indepedently.

EDIT: Because I find it really humorous/dumb how fans will pronounce something a total success or failure after one exact competition (sometimes half a competition), I'll add that G/P said in their Anything GOEs interview that these programs are really new to them. Choreography as well as G/P's comfort with the program will change. Back in 2015, the Shibutani's had a really not great season debut at Ondrej Nepela Trophy with...Fix You. Suffice to say their season wasn't over after one performance.

I’m not at all surprised at where Green/Parsons are - they left their coaches in June, probably didn’t get really down to business until July with a new and less experienced coaching team. Was the change because of the Russians coming to their old coaches? Because they had from 4CCs on to work on this season and that time seems to have been squandered.

These transitions take time and they’ve had 3 months together in which to develop a strategy, select music and choreograph new programs.

 

[barbarafan]

I don't agree here. Programs regularly change, often quite significantly, over the course of a season. I don't see any reason why they can't build more into this program, though I admit it is a bit underwhelming for them to find themselves in this position given the rise they seemed poised for at the end of last season and that things ended for them after 4CC.

I agree with you. I find with IAM (I watch their programs often as most of my fav.skaters are from there)that they start the season with elements well worked with speed, power and emotion & then you see later on more Y's and in between movements & added on parts to the elements which always looked to me that they always were meant to be there but until the program is perfected to death they would not fit in seamlessly. Just my opinion.

 

[yurokis40]

All of Mida’s programs this year are dreadful sorry but that school does not have the expertise and know how, like Gadbois for instance who is their Sam Chouinard and Ginette Cournoyer.

 

[Spikefan]

I have a horrible memory about such things, how were the first year programs out of Gadbois? Not sure it’s fair to compare current Gadbois to new Mida’s.

 

[chantilly]

The one that comes to mind is Picasso, which was excellent and put Hurtado and Diaz on notice to the judges.

 

[VGThuy]

The one that comes to mind is Picasso, which was excellent and put Hurtado and Diaz on notice to the judges.

Was that Gadbois’ first year? To be fair, they already hit a jackpot with Romain Haguenauer.

 

[Andora]

Was that Gadbois’ first year? To be fair, they already hit a jackpot with Romain Haguenauer.

Not their first year, no. According to Wiki & the Web archive, Hurtado & Diaz moved to train with Marie France & Patrice late 2011. I'm not sure who D&L coached in those early days, other than Spain's very own "what if" team, and the Danadians. I wouldn't be surprised if early Gadbois suffered from lack of technical aptitude in their skaters, vs. creativity and choreography. Marie France & Patrice weren't too boring until the very end of their career. (I still don't know how they made Somewhere In Time feel fresh...?)

Romain joined Gadbois in summer 2014. There's no question his skills & creative vision were on par with the impressive teams he brought from France.

I don't think it's a terrible thing if MIDA's first years are the opposite case, where they develop excellent technical teams while taking a couple seasons to hit their fresh/creative stride. Seems a better bet long-term. Pretty sure the popularity of IAM is due to wane any cycle now.