Surrogacy

[Susan1]

Hi. Since you guys are "strangers" - remember the cousin's daughter who had the baby a year and a half ago? And how I mentioned how "unconventional" they are...............

Cousin's daughter (CS) has signed up to be a surrogate IN CALIFORNIA. She lives in Ohio. I was being told all this in between being called back to have various tortures done to me at the retina specialist every 10 minutes, so I'm waaaaaaaay beyond confused and WTF.

She has to fly out there for tests and exams - missing time from a job she just started a year ago and leaving her kid here with the grandmother. She will have the baby here, if it takes the first time, and the new parents will come here to get "it" and take it back to California. So, again, I say WTF????? There are surrogacy programs in Ohio. Why CA? She doesn't know anybody there. She gets reimbursed for everything and gets paid a couple hundred dollars at each stage. She filled out a 17 page application and had to send all her medical/pregnancy records and pictures (no chance for anything nefarious there, huh?) to them. After the insemination, she has to stay OUT THERE "with her legs up" for however long.

They are in the middle of completely redoing their unfinished basement so that she and PT can live down there (of which cousin cannot even go up and down the steps). CS's grandmother (my aunt) is livid. The older lady next door who has been like a grandmother to her for 24 some years is livid. My cousin says "whatever she wants to do is fine" (an ongoing theme for 24 some years). All the stuff my cousin is going to have to go through and help with, and it's not even her grandchild.

OMG. What if something goes wrong with the pregnancy or the baby or they decide they don't want it. How many Lifetime movies about surrogacy gone wrong have there been? The rules are you have to have had one kid and kept it yourself. Why, so you don't want to keep this one? Couldn't the people in CA have found someone out there? Letting some stranger three hours away have a baby for you? This is SO weird. Comments? (Besides "what a wonderful thing to do for someone". Yeah, if they lived in Ohio or you knew someone who could not carry a child. Etc.) Cousin said it's going to cost these people ~$70K (California, ya know)! Sheesh.

p.s. I'm finally starting to be able to see again (6 hours). They dilated both eyes this time. All good for 6 more months.

 

[PDilemma]

This is a situation where "her body, her choice" applies no matter what you or anyone else thinks.

I would assume that this is an implantation of an embryo, not an insemination as normally in a surrogacy situation, the embryo is wholly the parents' child and your niece's egg will not be used. So it doesn't matter if the parents "want" the baby or not, it is not your niece's baby. She is an incubator, so to speak.

 

[Japanfan]

Surrogacy is an issue fraught with issues, including the exploitation of poor woman desperate for money (no so applicable in the case Susan1 presents, I think) and the fact that surrogates may not want to give up the child once it is born.

This is a situation where "her body, her choice" applies no matter what you or anyone else thinks.

I agree with you that this is what it comes down to, but 'choice' can be questionable when surrogates are extremely poor, vulnerable women who live in developing countries and have no opportunities to better their circumstances. That's why exploitation becomes an issue.

She is an incubator, so to speak.

Yes, and women have fought long and hard to gain rights to control their reproduction that allowed them to be more than mere incubators/baby makers.

So, surrogacy is a complicated issue. It is illegal in some countries (i.e. the UK) and regulated in Canada, where only 'altruistic' surrogacy is permitted (limits on financial gains).

http://www.fertilitylawcanada.com/surrogacy-law-in-canada.html

Contrary to popular belief, surrogacy is legal in Canada. The Assisted Human Reproduction Act prohibits the provision or acceptance of consideration to a woman for acting as a surrogate; it is illegal to pay a surrogate mother for her services. However, it is legal to reimburse a surrogate mother for her reasonable expenses incurred as a result of the surrogacy.

 

[PDilemma]

S

I agree with you that this is what it comes down to, but 'choice' can be questionable when surrogates are extremely poor, vulnerable women who live in developing countries and have no opportunities to better their circumstances. That's why exploitation becomes an issue.

But that is not the situation here. So, once again, as with this young woman's own pregnancy, Susan1 needs to just let it go.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I think this falls under "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

I cannot imagine what could be going through her mind............It is such ridiculous timing. BTW) Hope she comes to her senses. She is risking so much.

FYI - my sister was a surrogate years and years ago. She had one step-child and one son, and didn't want more kids, but wanted to have another baby. Her son was about 7 at the time. It is a wonderful thing she did for two strangers. She kept in touch with the family for a number of years, and they sent her pictures on his birthday (I don't think she ever visited or anything). She has no regrets and is happy to have done it.

BTW - congrats on seeing again.

Is your cousin always this nuts?

 

[meggonzo]

I think this falls under "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

She has no regrets and is happy to have done it.

 

[meggonzo]

OMG. What if something goes wrong with the pregnancy or the baby or they decide they don't want it. How many Lifetime movies about surrogacy gone wrong have there been? The rules are you have to have had one kid and kept it yourself. Why, so you don't want to keep this one? Couldn't the people in CA have found someone out there? Letting some stranger three hours away have a baby for you? This is SO weird. Comments? (Besides "what a wonderful thing to do for someone". Yeah, if they lived in Ohio or you knew someone who could not carry a child. Etc.) Cousin said it's going to cost these people ~$70K (California, ya know)! Sheesh.

I assume if the parents are paying $70K to do this, there's a good chance they've thought long and hard about it, maybe they have reasons for wanting a surrogate out of state, and they are probably not going to decide at the end that they don't want the baby.

 

[Prancer]

Cousin said it's going to cost these people ~$70K (California, ya know)! Sheesh.

Maybe that's why--because the people in California are paying more than anyone would in Ohio?

 

[genevieve]

I wonder if physical distance is a desirable thing for couples choosing a surrogate - far less risk of running into the surrogate at the mall once the child is born.

Not the same thing, but I had two friends who gave babies up through open adoption, which was set up while the women were pregnant. Both sets of adoptive parents were from states far away from where we were. That could have been just a case of a small pool of prospective parents looking to adopt in that manner, but IIRC there was some consideration about trying to prevent problems should the birth mothers feel regret about giving up their babies after the birth.

 

[Prancer]

Not the same thing, but I had two friends who gave babies up through open adoption, which was set up while the women were pregnant. Both sets of adoptive parents were from states far away from where we were. That could have been just a case of a small pool of prospective parents looking to adopt in that manner, but IIRC there was some consideration about trying to prevent problems should the birth mothers feel regret about giving up their babies after the birth.

Yes, one of my nieces had a baby when she was a freshman in high school and gave him up for adoption. A couple in California adopted her son. It was an open adoption, so my niece got updates and pictures and could visit once a year all along, but I am sure that it was easier on everyone to have some distance there.

As it turned out, my nephew moved to California several years ago and lives fairly close to the adoptive family now, and there is a relationship there--not exactly a friendship or familial relationship, but everyone kind of keeps up with everyone else and there are occasional visits. When my niece visits her brother, she always gets to see her son and even take him out for the day. I don't think that would have been possible under other circumstances, but the distance gave them all room to grow into that kind of comfort level.

 

[Deleted member 1204]

Surrogacy is not something I would choose personally, but having dealt with quite a few surrogacy situations at work, I think it is really nice when someone helps another couple like that.

 

[hanca]

So, surrogacy is a complicated issue. It is illegal in some countries (i.e. the UK) and regulated in Canada, where only 'altruistic' surrogacy is permitted (limits on financial gains).

I don't think surrogacy is illegal in the UK.
ETA I just checked. It is not illegal in the UK, but you are not allowed to get paid. You can get reimbursed for any expenses, including missed wages, travelling costs, even maternity clothes, but not any payment for doing this.

 

[Susan1]

I think this falls under "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

I cannot imagine what could be going through her mind............It is such ridiculous timing. BTW) Hope she comes to her senses. She is risking so much.

FYI - my sister was a surrogate years and years ago. She had one step-child and one son, and didn't want more kids, but wanted to have another baby. Her son was about 7 at the time. It is a wonderful thing she did for two strangers. She kept in touch with the family for a number of years, and they sent her pictures on his birthday (I don't think she ever visited or anything). She has no regrets and is happy to have done it.

BTW - congrats on seeing again.

Is your cousin always this nuts?

Is this the only time we've ever agreed on anything? ha ha

Answer to your last question - YES!

Other responders - why in the world would you be an incubator for someone you have never met 3/4 of the way across the country. I mean, carrying the baby for a family member or even somebody you've only known for a year at your job or whatever would be a nice thing to do, but there still could be so many complications for yourself or the baby. And having to fly out there for tests and interviews and implantation (like she has no other responsibilities).

(p.s. - flight was delayed last week - or something!!!! - and her luggage went to LA on another plane, she didn't; they still can't find luggage in LA. This part of the story was rather long and we got interrupted by me having to go back to be looked at.)

If something happens to the prospective parents would this agency find another couple out there to pay $70K or would my 57 year old disabled cousin be raising yet another child, this time who is not even related, while her daughter works and paints the basement. My cousin says they are not going to have any contact with the prospective parents EVER. Pop out the baby, leave the hospital, parents pick up baby, fly a newborn back to CA. Everybody lives happily ever after. Holy Moley.

Anyway, I am just discussing and asking opinions of you all, whoever, like you are watching and commenting on a reality show message board or something. You do not need to comment on my involvement or feelings. Thanks. She wouldn't have even told me about this to say get over it or it's none of my business or whatever. I'm not gossiping or discussing it with other family members. She spent a lot of time on how upset "Nana" next door was and how she would not even speak to CS for a week.

And.................the not seeing was from the dilated pupils. I only had that one retina "attack" last spring, no problems since. Six month check ups (as long as I still have insurance!). Knocking on lots of wood here.

 

[AxelAnnie]

There must be something we don't know that would make the whole thing make sense. Because it sure doesn't at this point.

 

[oleada]

I would imagine there is some sort of contract that would cover many of the situations you are wondering about.

 

[Winnipeg]

Maybe she just wants to get out of doing the remodel work

 

[genevieve]

Yes, one of my nieces had a baby when she was a freshman in high school and gave him up for adoption. .......

As it turned out, my nephew moved to California several years ago and lives fairly close to the adoptive family now, and there is a relationship there--not exactly a friendship or familial relationship, but everyone kind of keeps up with everyone else and there are occasional visits. When my niece visits her brother, she always gets to see her son and even take him out for the day. I don't think that would have been possible under other circumstances, but the distance gave them all room to grow into that kind of comfort level.

Yeah, one of my friends was sent photos and updates from the adoptive mom while her son was growing up. My friend had agreed to never initiate contact with him, but to be open should he want to meet her. He did contact her when he was 20 and it was a more challenging experience than she'd anticipated, although she is (not close) friends with the whole family, including her son, now.

Anyway, I am just discussing and asking opinions of you all, whoever, like you are watching and commenting on a reality show message board or something. You do not need to comment on my involvement or feelings.

It's kind of hard not to when your feelings about it are so very evident in your posts. If you ask for opinions, you're gonna get 'em based on what you've posted.

 

[meggonzo]

like she has no other responsibilities

or would my 57 year old disabled cousin be raising yet another child, this time who is not even related, while her daughter works and paints the basement.

She spent a lot of time on how upset "Nana" next door was and how she would not even speak to CS for a week.

What is it exactly that everyone is so upset about? It's not like surrogacy is some new-fangled idea. From some of your comments here, it seems that people are upset that your cousin is helping raise the first child and will have to watch him while the daughter is in California. If it's such a problem, then your cousin should stop complaining about it to everyone else and talk to her daughter. And if she's not actually complaining about it and it's everyone else that's saying she's being burdened, then maybe you should mind your own business?

 

[moojja]

I would imagine there is some sort of contract that would cover many of the situations you are wondering about.

Less than you would think. Even in the U.S., surrogacy can be a wild wild west, and if there's any disagreement between carrier and parent(s), it gets ugly fast.

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl..._raises_questions_about_surrogacy.single.html

 

[Susan1]

It's kind of hard not to when your feelings about it are so very evident in your posts. If you ask for opinions, you're gonna get 'em based on what you've posted.

Yes, opinions about the situation, not about my feelings. It's so weird that people feel free to tell ME to mind my own business or get over it or whatever. If you do not have an opinion or anecdote about the situation please feel free to mind your own business and comment on something that does affect you personally, like Big Brother or a famous person's death.

 

[Susan1]

Maybe she just wants to get out of doing the remodel work

Ye..........no! ha ha It's her money and going to be her basement home. And, no, I don't think she decided to be a surrogate to pay for the remodel. ha ha

 

[Susan1]

What is it exactly that everyone is so upset about? It's not like surrogacy is some new-fangled idea. From some of your comments here, it seems that people are upset that your cousin is helping raise the first child and will have to watch him while the daughter is in California. If it's such a problem, then your cousin should stop complaining about it to everyone else and talk to her daughter. And if she's not actually complaining about it and it's everyone else that's saying she's being burdened, then maybe you should mind your own business?

BTW, my cousin was not complaining. She was telling me the news of her family. The same as she told her mother and "Nana". She would never complain about anything CS does. CS has always been allowed to do anything she wants. The rest of us CARE about what it's doing to my cousin.

And, please tell me what my cousin and I are allowed to talk about while sitting in a waiting room - for next time. If she sends me an email with any details, am I allowed to reply? Should I tell my aunt you said to mind her own business about her daughter and granddaughter too?

And, again, it's not the surrogacy thing. It's the CA thing. She sent all of her medical and financial information to a strange company that she knows nothing about. Yes, I'm sure she investigated it on the internet, where everything is always true and aboveboard. I bet they even have real live pictures of all the babies they have produced.

She will be inconveniencing her mother, and baby really, and taking time off from a job (she has to go out there at the "right time of the month" and thinks it's going to take the first time) she's only had for a year, possibly affecting her own health (who knows what having other people's, uh, deposit in her body will do), for strangers or baby stealers or God only knows who. She'll get paid to squirt out a kid and never know what happened to it.

I would think losing her luggage might have been a sign from God to not do this. And if she is hellbent on helping an unfortunate couple know the joys of raising a baby, even though she doesn't find much time for her own (remember the deadbeat dad? he still is), find a reputable company in Cincinnati and go in the building, meet the people who work there, and do her thing.

It's mind boggling to me. As are most things they do, actually.

 

[meggonzo]

BTW, my cousin was not complaining. She was telling me the news of her family. The same as she told her mother and "Nana". She would never complain about anything CS does. CS has always been allowed to do anything she wants. The rest of us CARE about what it's doing to my cousin.

And, please tell me what my cousin and I are allowed to talk about while sitting in a waiting room - for next time. If she sends me an email with any details, am I allowed to reply? Should I tell my aunt you said to mind her own business about her daughter and granddaughter too?

And, again, it's not the surrogacy thing. It's the CA thing. She sent all of her medical and financial information to a strange company that she knows nothing about. Yes, I'm sure she investigated it on the internet, where everything is always true and aboveboard. I bet they even have real live pictures of all the babies they have produced.

She will be inconveniencing her mother, and baby really, and taking time off from a job (she has to go out there at the "right time of the month" and thinks it's going to take the first time) she's only had for a year, possibly affecting her own health (who knows what having other people's, uh, deposit in her body will do), for strangers or baby stealers or God only knows who. She'll get paid to squirt out a kid and never know what happened to it.

I would think losing her luggage might have been a sign from God to not do this. And if she is hellbent on helping an unfortunate couple know the joys of raising a baby, even though she doesn't find much time for her own (remember the deadbeat dad? he still is), find a reputable company in Cincinnati and go in the building, meet the people who work there, and do her thing.

It's mind boggling to me. As are most things they do, actually.

If your cousin is not complaining, why does it bother you so much? Your family can talk about whatever you want when you're together, but it seems like you are taking on issues that are not yours.

 

[AxelAnnie]

If your cousin is not complaining, why does it bother you so much? Your family can talk about whatever you want when you're together, but it seems like you are taking on issues that are not yours.

I suspect it bother's Susan1 because she cares about her family, and all of this is totally nuts. She is asking for a reality check. I totally get it. And the entire situation with her family IMO is nuts. At the very least she is trying to look after the welfare of those she cares about.

 

[Prancer]

She is asking for a reality check.

From whom? Us?

At the very least she is trying to look after the welfare of those she cares about.

By doing what?

 

[Susan1]

I suspect it bother's Susan1 because she cares about her family, and all of this is totally nuts. She is asking for a reality check. I totally get it. And the entire situation with her family IMO is nuts. At the very least she is trying to look after the welfare of those she cares about.

I can't "look after" anyone! Nobody is asking for any advice, or would take it. I'm the kind of person who would do a pros and cons and analyze risks and ask people. They are not. They just fly blindly into things and if it doesn't work out, no big deal. They're always like "so what if I'm half an hour late for an appointment" (while I stand at the door waiting for someone 10 minutes ahead of their expected time of arrival).

I just wanted someone(s) who is totally removed from this train wreck to "listen" to me vent. And discuss. My aunt would do a good 2 hours on the phone and it wouldn't make any difference. And we still wouldn't say everything I can think of later and write down. Like - when they do this, don't they implant a bunch of eggs. Or is that when they do in vetro? What if her skinny little body has to carry around 5 babies and the couple only wants one? Don't they give her drugs to further the pregnancy?

I didn't get to ask Lynn (oops) any of this stuff even if I could have thought about it at the time. I signed in, went to the bathroom, we sat down and she started out by saying CS was going out to LA to be a surrogate and her luggage went but she didn't. And I said "what about surrogacy?" and Lynn says "yeah" and that they spent an hour at the airport waiting for the luggage and went to Meijer for awhile and went back to the airport......and the airline ($700 ticket) offered her a future travel voucher to make up for her lost luggage or the flight or something. (It's not like they cancelled the flight, since the luggage went on the plane. Huh?) and on and on ..........I tried to get the surrogacy story part in between going back and forth. I didn't know WHAT kind of questions to ask.

<<At the retina dr., you get called back to have your eyesight checked, then back to the waiting room, then get called back to be questioned and dilated (and I'm thinking surrogacy????? the whole time, what eye symptoms?), then back to the waiting room (they have a bunch of chairs back there so you don't have to go back to the waiting room every fifteen minutes, but they were full and I wanted to get more of the story anyway), then they call you back to have the pupils "xrayed", then BACK to the waiting room, then back in to see the doctor and be poked and prodded and asked questions not about your cousin's daughter's surrogacy plans. Then we couldn't talk while blind and nauseous me had to direct Lynn, who could get lost in a cul-de-sac, out of downtown Dayton.>>

Anyway, I'm sure CS has to take some kind of psych test. If they are legit, true answers might disqualify her. I don't mean "mentally ill". I mean psychologically fit and the reasons for flying clear across the country to do this.

More thinking - Why would they want pictures of her as a child? She's not contributing any DNA. What if they take her eggs while they are in there?

Haven't they ever seen any Lifetime movies.

Rambling....................

 

[hanca]

By doing what?

By asking us, obviously!
It's a pity that she makes the effort to ask questions, but doesn't really want to hear the answer. Or hears it and doesn't want to think about it.

 

[Gazpacho]

Like - when they do this, don't they implant a bunch of eggs. Or is that when they do in vetro? What if her skinny little body has to carry around 5 babies and the couple only wants one? Don't they give her drugs to further the pregnancy?
...
More thinking - Why would they want pictures of her as a child? She's not contributing any DNA. What if they take her eggs while they are in there?

Haven't they ever seen any Lifetime movies.

The fact that you would ask these questions suggests - no, proves - that you should stop watching so many Lifetime movies and start educating yourself on how IVF and surrogacy are practiced these days.

For someone who claims to analyze pros and cons and risks of situations, you sure haven't done that here.

 

[Japanfan]

Susan1, IMO you need to take a few deep breaths, step back, and detach.

And I have no idea whether a surrogate is required to pass a psych test in the US - I rather doubt it.

Glad you're getting your vision back.

 

[Gazpacho]

And I have no idea whether a surrogate is required to pass a psych test in the US - I rather doubt it.

I don't think it's a law, but almost all fertility clinics require one. Of course these evaluations vary in thoroughness, opinions of the psychologist are subjective, and people can fool the tester.