Skate Canada 2022 Olympics selection criteria

[Colonel Green]

IMO it speaks to the points made earlier in this thread about how SC has not done enough development in Canadian pairs, that neither of the pairs selected for Jr Worlds has yet achieved the minimum TS to participate in that event.

Not really. McIntosh/Mimar were supposed to compete in the fall season but Brooke was injured. The other team are brand new.

 

[Judy]

Last year there were articles and people posting here about Skate Canada’s President. This year there is a new one. Give her a chance .. things never change overnight.

 

[danafan]

It's easy to be critical of Skate Canada, but seriously. Mcintosh and Mimar were injured this year and there was no JGP last season when they first teamed up. The other team is new and Skate Canada could have just nominated the other active team with the TES minimums, but they didn't. The fact that they registered teams for Bavarian open proactively for this situation is a good thing.

 

[clairecloutier]

I still think it says something about the state of CAN junior pairs when all of them are either so new that they don't have minimums or do have minimums but aren't considered worthy of Junior Worlds.

that said, things in U.S. junior pairs are hardly better, with the top finisher at U.S. juniors being both too young for JW and too new to have minimums, and only 2 teams available for JW that are somewhat technically sufficient for that level.

Hoping to see growth in both countries' junior pairs potential over the next quad.

 

[Colonel Green]

Pairs is struggling everywhere outside of Russia right now. Part of which is that ice dance has thoroughly eaten pairs’ lunch in most places.

There’s only a much that federations can do when they aren’t the ones paying for everything.

 

[Judy]

Pairs is struggling everywhere outside of Russia right now. Part of which is that ice dance has thoroughly eaten pairs’ lunch in most places.

There’s only a much that federations can do when they aren’t the ones paying for everything.

Canada also draws from a smaller population too.

I do agree that pairs are somewhat struggling overall.

 

[victorskid]

Ted Barton & Meagan Duhamel talked a bit on the Junior Pairs championships broadcast about an initiative from Skate Canada to try to get more club coaches to work with their skaters in trying pairs. Meagan mentioned the issue about having to move away from home at a fairly early age in order to go to one of the few places working with pairs. Skate Canada has developed some sort of a program and a lot of materials for coaches to try to get more pairs development happening at a "local" level.

I seem to recall reading that the ISU is doing something similar at the international level.

 

[mackiecat]

They do have a team not named to the world team who has minimums but the boy is coming back from a serious knee injury and Covid. I assume they are the substitutes- poor kids need some training time though. Brooke was also out with an injury but should have no problems getting the minimums.

 

[overedge]

Not really. McIntosh/Mimar were supposed to compete in the fall season but Brooke was injured. The other team are brand new.

That supports my point, in that there are (apparently) so few junior pairs at that level to choose from.

 

[Colonel Green]

That supports my point, in that there are (apparently) so few junior pairs at that level to choose from.

H/H won the silver, they warrant the chance to get the minimums.

We don’t exactly have a massive junior pairs field, to be sure, but that’s ultimately not something federations can control.

 

[mackiecat]

That supports my point, in that there are (apparently) so few junior pairs at that level to choose from.

There were 9 teams at challenge in Jr in Dec 2020 Plus two teams in Senior who are Jr age eligible. 11- Not a bad number. Unfortunately there were so many injuries this year. Plus remember Novice skaters couldn’t train in Ontario pretty much from Mar 2020 until July 21 ( and are again off the ice). Quebec skaters were similarly off the ice.

 

[screech]

Meagan mentioned the issue about having to move away from home at a fairly early age in order to go to one of the few places working with pairs.

Most clubs don't have a pairs program, so moving away is a must. However, Meagan didn't move for pairs - she didn't even start pairs until she was almost 20, and already training at Mariposa for years (and based on having spoken to her around the time she started pairs, it came about by her goofing off with her friend, Ryan Arnold, and she was flat out saying at the time that her focus was on singles and pairs was just for fun - she didn't even know if she was going to compete pairs). It's not a big thing, but it bugs me when people rewrite history like that.

It would be nice if a pairs coach would visit/do seminars at some of the major clubs that don't have a pairs program and do things like a lift class session to see if it will work for anyone. I did off-ice lift classes the couple of summers I trained at Mariposa, and was asked to come back after Canadians that year to try out for pairs. I never did, though, as my parents did not want me moving away from home. However, people won't know if they want to try pairs if they're never exposed to it.

I actually would have liked to try ice dance. I was one of the few at my club who enjoyed doing compulsory dance testing, and actually partnered a few male skaters on their tests. Even after I passed all my gold dances, I stayed on the ice during the dance sessions (where the music for the compulsory dances would be played for people to practice the patterns) though most at that level would leave the ice for a brief break. I would have liked to continue to my diamond dances, however there was no partner for high-level dances at our club, so there was definitely no opportunity to try out ice dance as a discipline either.

 

[victorskid]

@screech - Meagan didn't say she had to move away but that that is what is required for most skaters - they can't even try pairs skating at their home club. Ted said that that was the situation Skate Canada was hoping to correct in encouraging more singles coaches, with the help of materials, videos, etc., to help their students try out the discipline and start development locally.

Neither she nor I were trying to "rewrite history" - perhaps I didn't write out my recollections of the conversation clearly enough I'm sure the video is still available.

 

[DE93]

They are definitely starting to develop more pairs teams in the pre-novice level. At Challenge there were 13 pre-novice pairs (one of the larger pre-novice pairs events that I can recall - especially given that a lot of these kids wouldn't have been able to train during the beginning of the pandemic as they didn't qualify as elite/to train until much later) including several from provinces not traditionally known for being the pairs powerhouses of Ontario/Quebec (there was a team from Newfoundland, 2 from Nova Scotia, and 3 teams from Alberta). I was pleasantly surprised with all 3 teams from out east, a couple of which had excellent lift technique and fun performance skills for kids who had never competed pairs before this season. The top 2 pre-novice teams at Challenge could easily have competed Novice this season (pairs skills-wise) in my opinion.

On that note - Summer was a STARskater up until she teamed up with Marty, so I do think there has been more of an effort to develop teams over the past few seasons (it'll just take a while for them to move up the levels).

 

[Parsley Sage]

are there really only 6 entries in pairs at 4CC?

https://results.isu.org/events/fc2022_Pairs.htm

 

[screech]

@screech - Meagan didn't say she had to move away but that that is what is required for most skaters - they can't even try pairs skating at their home club. Ted said that that was the situation Skate Canada was hoping to correct in encouraging more singles coaches, with the help of materials, videos, etc., to help their students try out the discipline and start development locally.

Neither she nor I were trying to "rewrite history" - perhaps I didn't write out my recollections of the conversation clearly enough I'm sure the video is still available.

My apologies, to me it came across as her having to move away for pairs, but re-reading your initial comment, it doesn't flat out say that. My dislike of Meagan probably coloured my interpretation of her comment.

In any case, as I expounded on in my post, it's definitely an issue that most clubs aren't able to expose students to pairs/dance as a competitive discipline, and I really wish there would be more visiting seminars with coaches/experts in those fields to introduce skaters to trying them out. If I'd lived closer to Barrie when I was in my teens, and able to train at Mariposa, I likely would have been a pairs skater.

 

[Colonel Green]

are there really only 6 entries in pairs at 4CC?

https://results.isu.org/events/fc2022_Pairs.htm

Yes, due to withdrawals and China and Japan not sending anyone.

 

[victorskid]

My apologies, to me it came across as her having to move away for pairs, but re-reading your initial comment, it doesn't flat out say that. My dislike of Meagan probably coloured my interpretation of her comment.

In any case, as I expounded on in my post, it's definitely an issue that most clubs aren't able to expose students to pairs/dance as a competitive discipline, and I really wish there would be more visiting seminars with coaches/experts in those fields to introduce skaters to trying them out. If I'd lived closer to Barrie when I was in my teens, and able to train at Mariposa, I likely would have been a pairs skater.

Read the post above about what's happening at pre-novice

 

[overedge]

@screech - Meagan didn't say she had to move away but that that is what is required for most skaters - they can't even try pairs skating at their home club. Ted said that that was the situation Skate Canada was hoping to correct in encouraging more singles coaches, with the help of materials, videos, etc., to help their students try out the discipline and start development locally.

I wonder how SC can address the really big problem of ice time for pairs. It isn't really safe to train pairs on a freeskate or dance session, unless they're very low-level pairs who aren't doing over-the-head lifts or big throw jumps. Materials and videos are helpful, but there's also the practical reality of clubs finding ice time (and paying for it) for pairs training.

 

[Rafter]

Summer Homick has some IT factor and potential but not sure about her SBS jumps. How old is she? 14? I searched Marty Haubrich’s name to see if he used to skate singles and what jumps he had. I didn’t realize he used to be a hockey player and has also done ice dance.

The top team in Novice at Challenge seem quite strong and the girl who placed second - Annika Behnke - she looks to me to have huge potential.
See here at 1:50:30. She’s in a pink dress. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x861jaw

 

[overedge]

H/H won the silver, they warrant the chance to get the minimums.

We don’t exactly have a massive junior pairs field, to be sure, but that’s ultimately not something federations can control.

I didn't say that the pairs that were chosen aren't capable of getting the minimums.

And no, federations can't control how many qualified pairs there are, or what disciplines skaters choose to be in. But they can offer developmental programs and make opportunities available for the skaters who are interested.

 

[flowerpower]

Makes me think of Lawrence/Swiegers, who successfully trained pairs in rural Manitoba despite their coach having limited pairs experience. What type of seminars/supports/regional resources would need to be put in place to make this possible for more skaters, at an early developmental level?

 

[marbri]

I think there is a plan underway to introduce pairs and teach pairs skills in clubs across Canada. I think it's called "Skate Canada National Pair Initiative Mentorship Program". I can't find any official link to details or the coaches who will be mentoring other coaches in clubs across Canada BUT something is in the works. I think Meagan Duhamel described how something like this could work on one of her commenting sessions during Nationals (and no, she isn't one of the names I recall seeing as mentor coaches).

Someone else here must know more about this?

 

[overedge]

Makes me think of Lawrence/Swiegers, who successfully trained pairs in rural Manitoba despite their coach having limited pairs experience. What type of seminars/supports/regional resources would need to be put in place to make this possible for more skaters, at an early developmental level?

That was exactly the type of situation I was thinking of. I also recall hearing, although I don't know if this was true, that as soon as they showed potential, they were being pressured to move to a "real" pairs coach, although they seemed quite happy and were progressing well with the coach they had.

IMO part of what could happen is supporting pairs training wherever the pair happens to be, and developing coaching expertise as much as possible throughout the country, rather than trying to centralize it.

 

[overedge]

I think there is a plan underway to introduce pairs and teach pairs skills in clubs across Canada. I think it's called "Skate Canada National Pair Initiative Mentorship Program". I can't find any official link to details or the coaches who will be mentoring other coaches in clubs across Canada BUT something is in the works. I think Meagan Duhamel described how something like this could work on one of her commenting sessions during Nationals (and no, she isn't one of the names I recall seeing as mentor coaches).

Someone else here must know more about this?

There's a brief mention of it at the bottom of the left-hand side of this page, so it must exist...

Pairs Program | figureskating

www.connaughtsc.com

 

[allezfred]

If there was a deal with Skate Canada, that is all on Skate Canada: they're the only ones who can offer a deal, in violation of their own selection rules.

Wouldn't that be grounds for lawyering up?

 

[flowerpower]

That was exactly the type of situation I was thinking of. I also recall hearing, although I don't know if this was true, that as soon as they showed potential they were being pressured to move to a "real" pairs coach, although they seemed quite happy and were progressing well with the coach they had.

IMO part of what could happen is supporting pairs training wherever the pair happens to be, and developing coaching expertise as much as possible throughout the country, rather than trying to centralize it.

Right. I also recall hearing that L/S were encouraged to move, but decided not to. They obtained part-time guidance from Lyndon Johnston (a former Manitoban), including occasional visits to see him and online coaching IIRC. Perhaps a model that could be used more widely to support local coaches.

 

[made_in_canada]

Pairs is so hard in smaller centres. The club I grew up in had a fairly successful developmental pairs program. It just eats slim resources. Pairs needs it’s own ice pretty quickly for safety reasons. They’re involved in lots (seminars, competitions) because there’s not a lot of them and in a small club it takes coaches away from other responsibilities, which doesn’t work well when there’s only a couple of coaches to take care of everyone from Canskate to competitive kids. It was many years ago but pairs ended up happening to the detriment of singles skaters, and the club itself.

 

[overedge]

@screech and whoever else is interested, the SC National Pair Initiative is described in the 2020 SC Annual Report (page 22): https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/2020-Skate-Canada-Annual-Report-EN.pdf

 

[Cutting the Ice]

Does anybody know what happened to Fredette/St. Louie? They competed at JGP Kosic in September. Injured? Broken up? I thought they had real potential.