Skate Canada 2017 Ladies Podium Poll

[haribobo]

This could really go any which way...ETA forgive the lack of specificity in the title. Its very early...

 

[Sylvia]

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[haribobo]

Oh awesome, thank you!!!

 

[coppertop1]

A very deep field. I say G: Kaetlyn Osmond S: Karen Chen B: Ashley Wagner or Anna Pogorilaya

 

[aftershocks]

I'd love to see it as Osmond, Chen and Wagner. But it's more likely Osmond, Honda and either of Sotskova or Pogorilaya. Hopefully, Courtney Hicks will compete well and make some noise in the standings. All disciplines are usually deep at every event these days.

 

[Areski]

The only certainty is Sotskova on the podium here.

My dream podium would be: Pogorilaya, Lecavelier & Osmond but I know it's not going to happen. I am very nervous for Anna.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Gosh, this podium could end up any which way. Pogo had a couple of rough practice outings. Took a hard fall and quite possibly hit her head. But she must be ok because she did her FD practice after I think.

 

[aftershocks]

Whoa, Maria Sotskova was way overmarked in the sp. She gets the elements out like a robot, but she's not at all interesting to watch. How could the judges have her components mark so much higher than Karen's and Ashley's? Even Courtney Hicks had more artistry to her skating than Sotskova. And the judges totally ignored Sotskova's underrotation on the 2-axel. That 66+ score is ridiculous. Had it been Mirai, the judges would have been all over the UR like white on rice. Sotskova was over-scored on tech and PCS. It's going to be a long season with judges kowtowing to Russians apparently, as usual. The politics involved is just so obvious.

In this poll, I voted for Sotskova, not because I like her skating, but because I see how over-rated she's been with the judges, and how much RusFed has been pushing her. If you are going to receive gift scores, you really need to not make such visible mistakes. Judges should be ashamed of themselves. Much like Rika Hongo, Sotskova is so boring and a bit labored even, although Sotskova has better skating skills than Hongo. I also felt that Kailani Crane was hosed for a gorgeous skate. Crane's score should have been at least 3 points or so higher. Laurine Lecavalier was lovely to watch as well, but her rep is not that high as yet, so she's kept within a second tier frame as well. It was a fairly decent score for Laurine, but the judges were definitely not being generous with the marks, except for the Russians and favored Osmond. As it turns out, the judges didn't need to keep so many skaters scores so low in order to reserve the goodies for the Russians and Osmond (especially not for Osmond who skated beautifully and seemingly with no pressure). Good for her!

Osmond skated spectacularly and she deserved her scores. Pogorilaya is so lovely when she skates well. It's clear how much Pogo has improved and how hard she's worked. But she seems to be so hard on herself and she rarely if ever seems to be having fun out there. The first two spots are clear. I would have had Sotskova losing more points for the 2-axel under-rotation and her dreadfully boring skating. Courtney should be around 65+ and Sotskova should be slightly behind Courtney IMO. There's no way that Ashley should be behind Rika Hongo.

Bad luck for Honda who is delightful to watch, but she missed on some crucial elements, and the judges absolutely hammered her. Ashley made all her rotations, but she was downgraded heavily for some minor mistakes on execution. And the judges likely are looking somewhat askance at Ashley having recycled an old sp. Karen could have scored much better and been in contention for the podium had she executed her jumps the way she can.

 

[RoseRed]

Whoa, Sotskova was way overmarked in the sp. She gets the elements out like a robot, but she's not at all interesting to watch. How could the judges have her components mark so much higher than Karen's and Ashley's? Even Hicks had more artistry to her skating than Sotskova. And the judges totally ignored Sotskova's underrotation on the 2-axel. That 66+ score is ridiculous. Had it been Mirai, the judges would have been all over the rotation like white on rice. Sotskova was over-scored on tech and PCS. It's going to be a long season with judges kowtowing to Russians apparently, as usual.

In this poll, I voted for Sotskova, not because I like her skating, but because I see how over-rated she's been with the judges, and how much RusFed has been pushing her. Much like Rika Hongo, Sotskova is so boring and a bit labored even, although Sotskova has better skating skills than Hongo. I also felt that Kailani Crane was hosed for a gorgeous skate. Crane's score should have been at least 3 points or so higher.

Bad luck for Honda who is delightful to watch, but she missed on some crucial elements, and the judges absolutely hammered her. Ashley made all her rotations, but she was downgraded heavily for some minor mistakes on execution. And the judges likely are looking somewhat askance at Ashley having recycled an old sp. Karen could have scored much better and been in contention for the podium had she executed her jumps the way she can.

She had two URs actually

 

[aftershocks]

She had two URs actually

Did the judges take off for the URs though? If they did, I mean they really are placing Sotskova in high esteem for her tech abilities. She clearly should not be so high on components though. She doesn't so much perform as she does grit her teeth with determination and desperation.

 

[Sylvia]

RoseRed was referring to Ashley who had < calls on her 3T & 3Lo; Sotskova had 1 < on her 2A: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpcan2017/gpcan2017_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

 

[aftershocks]

Eh, Ashley certainly didn't perform as well as she could, and she had trouble on her final spin too apparently. But still she's often judged harshly. Even with the problems, Ashley is a better overall skater than Hongo and should not be behind Hongo by percentage points. And it becomes a moot point since Ashley W and Mirai will always be over-scrutinized and nitpicked to the nth degree on URs even where it's close and they were actually around.

 

[RoseRed]

Eh, Ashley certainly didn't perform as well as she could, and she had trouble on her final spin too apparently. But still she's often judged harshly. Even with the problems, Ashley is a better overall skater than Hongo and should not be behind Hongo by percentage points. And it becomes a moot point since Ashley W and Mirai will always be over-scrutinized and nitpicked to the nth degree on URs even where it's close and they were actually around.

But this isn't Ashley being scrutinized unfairly. Even I could see the URs in slow motion. This was a super strict tech panel on rotation. Kaetlyn, Courtney and Karen were the only ones with no URs. Ashley had one more UR than Hongo, one fewer level 4 spin and finished 0.03 points behind. Ashley was more than 3 points higher in PCS, and she wasn't top of her game in performance/interpretation today. The scores were reasonable.

 

[mag]

Eh, Ashley certainly didn't perform as well as she could, and she had trouble on her final spin too apparently. But still she's often judged harshly. Even with the problems, Ashley is a better overall skater than Hongo and should not be behind Hongo by percentage points. And it becomes a moot point since Ashley W and Mirai will always be over-scrutinized and nitpicked to the nth degree on URs even where it's close and they were actually around.

You can say this as many times as you like. It still won’t make it true.

 

[aftershocks]

You can say this as many times as you like. It still won’t make it true.

Yes and so can you @mag, as you please to your heart's content. I'm completely realistic with where Ashley is at right now with her skating. She's certainly let herself down plenty of times. And so has Mirai, and so have plenty of skaters for that matter. Still, Ash is an overall better skater than Rika Hongo, and hopefully Ash will get herself together and show that in the fp.

Many of the judges are very imperfect too. In fact, some of them are part of the entire less than above board politics as usual system in figure skating.

As far as the URs here, I haven't looked at the slo-mo, so whatever. I do know that both Mirai and Ashley have been dinged for URs when they were clearly around. And that's what I'm referencing. What's the skin off your nose on this anyway? As far as I can tell, you aren't a Mirai or Ashley fan. But you sure seem to want to make sure that Ash's and Mirai's fans bow down to accept they have UR weaknesses and thus deserve to be harshly judged no matter what.

Eh @RoseRed, you are happy with the scores, so good for you. I think Kailani Crane should have scored a bit higher. I think Courtney deserved higher on choreo and interpretation, but since she skated earlier the judges held her down a bit. And that's not unusual to happen in figure skating. I think Sotskova is way overscored on PCS, and she was lucky to get only UR marks for that badly executed '2-axel.' If Sotskova wasn't well-liked or held in high esteem politically, she could have been downgraded. As well as Pogo skated, she could have received higher scores too. When Pogo is good, she's very very good, and when she splats, she's horrid.

Lovely Osmond looks to be safe and home free to win that Skate Canada gold, so why are you guys feeling such a need to go after my comments about the judging I wonder? I can be pleased for Osmond and still see issues with the overall judging. The way scores are trending in ladies discipline, I don't think Osmond's scores are out of line at all. But the judges definitely were holding down some scores for other competitors (as well as boosting Sotskova's), IMO.

I'm happy that Osmond went back to a tried and true sp in lieu of that problematic Summertime sp. It was the right decision for her. And going back to better programs seems to be a huge trend this season. It would be wonderful if Osmond could manage to win GPF and OGM over Medvedeva and the Russians, no? I also hope that Gabby can regroup, but she didn't look good on her first outing, as has been discussed in Canadian ladies thread.

 

[Fiero425]

OMG, what happened to Anna Pogorilaya!? She plummeted like a stone after LP performance! Just caught end and score where 3 deductions just decimated her taking the Russian from 2nd after the SP to 9th! Is the pressure of so many Russian women finally getting to her or is an injury involved? Congrats to Ashley Wagner coming all the way back to get on the podium taking Bronze! "Hometown" Kaetlyn Osmond won gold going away since Anna disintegrated!

- - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Skate_Canada_International#Ladies - -

 

[Sylvia]

Pogorilaya apparently has been dealing with a back injury and hasn't competed her Swan Lake FS until today.

FS protocols are here: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpcan2017/gpcan2017_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

 

[Fiero425]

Pogorilaya apparently has been dealing with a back injury and hasn't competed her Swan Lake FS until today.

FS protocols are here: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpcan2017/gpcan2017_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

It takes a man to perform "Swan Lake;" didn't you know?

- - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_o5Wv8-004 - - Alexei Urmanov - '95 Europeans

- - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lH9mg_ZneA&t=25s - - Rudy Galindo - '96 Nationals

 

[Sylvia]

Congrats to Kaetlyn Osmond who won the gold at Skate Canada International with her Black Swan/Swan Lake FS -- though not at her best today she dominated the field here (British Eurosport version): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAescFHhrW0

I was happy for Marin Honda who made her Senior Grand Prix debut in Regina -- she pulled up from 10th in SP to 5th overall by placing 3rd in the FS (she skated first today and I haven't come across a YT video yet).

ETA the poll results as of today - top 5:

Kaetlyn Osmond 47 votes (GOLD)
Maria Sotskova 28 votes (SILVER)
Anna Pogorilaya 22 votes (2nd after SP)
Marin Honda 19 votes (3rd in FS)
Ashley Wagner 13 votes (BRONZE)
...
Courtney Hicks 0 votes (oh-so-close to bronze)

 

[Seerek]

As the technical specialists, former national champs Fernand Fedronic (France) and Scott Davis (USA) were certainly quite strict on the rotations and the edge calls this weekend. Wonder if this will be the norm for the rest of the season.

 

[Fiero425]

As the technical specialists, former national champs Fernand Fedronic (France) and Scott Davis (USA) were certainly quite strict on the rotations and the edge calls this weekend. Wonder if this will be the norm for the rest of the season.

Urmanov was rather tough as a Tech. Specialist years ago when he retired! That's how it is; newbies who actually skated will always be harder on the competition when judging! Typical really!

 

[aftershocks]

Kaetlyn Osmond was clearly the class of the field at Skate Canada. The judges seemed to be reserving scores for top skaters somewhat in the sp. But my goodness, in the fp all the skaters did the damage to themselves -- so many URs, downgrades, lost points and splats. It almost seemed contagious. However, I was very surprised to see Kaetlyn fall twice and double a jump skating second to last. The path was wide open for Kaetlyn. Everyone had taken themselves out right and left in one or both programs. Only Sotskova, Wagner and I imagine Marin skated somewhat clean in the fp. But Marin had deep-sixed herself in the sp.

Too bad no one really fought to challenge Kaetlyn here (aside from the over-rated Sotskova and the sadly limited but feisty Hongo, who did not impress the judges at all). Ashley did her best, but after completing her fp she clearly did not anticipate making the podium. Aside from Sotskova and Kaetlyn, everyone who skated after Ashley failed to hold onto their position, forget about taking advantage of a podium opportunity. Pogorilaya, skating last, had an excellent opportunity to win, but she skated worst of all.

I think Kaetlyn should think about trying to make a statement that she's in it this season to challenge Medvedeva for Olympic gold, not to back her way into an Olympic silver medal. With the way this competition went, it seems to me that aside from Medvedeva, Worlds and Olympics silver and bronze medals are up for grabs via a process of attrition and default. I'd hate to see that. All ladies, not just the U.S. ladies, need to step it up big time. I feel sorry for Japanese ladies who seem to have a bit more depth right now with Mai, Wakaba, Sakamoto, Miyahara if she's healthy, and Marin if she gets herself together consistently. It seems to me that the way Alaine Chartrand is skating, Canada is the country which needs to extend their 3rd ladies spot to Japan, not the U.S., as some fans have dismissively suggested.

Rika Hongo is pretty and very athletic, but unfortunately her positions are ugly, her posture is terrible and she seems to lumber over the ice. She's had some fairly decent performances in the past, but this was not one of them. The judges were having none of allowing Hongo to reach the podium. Can't Hongo get some help from a ballet teacher?

It was depressing watching the looks on many of these ladies faces in the kiss 'n cry. Even Sotskova who skated decently (aside from those annoying and endless arms overhead), had an anxious and desperate look in the kiss 'n cry. But she always has that uptight look in trying to battle the Russian ladies assembly line for a top spot. Didn't Courtney and Karen realize how many points they'd left on the ice?! Why resort to praying and looking hopeful in the kiss 'n cry? Unless you know that you really skated well and deserve good scores, no prayers will be answered favorably.