Russian figure skating news & updates in 2022

[pointbleu]

I thought my colleague’s experience was just a one-off, but if you look at YouTube, people from other countries describe their experience of living in France, it is quite a frequent thing that is mentioned, so it is not just a one-off. It seems to be quite frequent.

You sure know more from one colleague and YouTube videos that from people living and working with French people. Right, Hanca.

 

[skatfan]

I thought my colleague’s experience was just a one-off, but if you look at YouTube, people from other countries describe their experience of living in France, it is quite a frequent thing that is mentioned, so it is not just a one-off. It seems to be quite frequent.

From what I have seen from YouTuber expats in France, the weight thing is pretty embedded in the culture. These are usually folks living in Paris and in international corporations.

 

[Dobre]

So Zhulin watched the dance event at Skate America then.

Because he wouldn't be politicking against Hawayek & Baker if he wasn't afraid they were now a problem.

 

[allezfred]

So Zhulin watched the dance event at Skate America then.

Because he wouldn't be politicking against Hawayek & Baker if he wasn't afraid they were now a problem.

I don’t think he is politicking. He is just being an arsehole.

In any case, it’s not like any of his teams will be competing internationally for a long time.

 

[millyskate]

No it is not at all. There are jerks in France like everywhere else who think they are entitled to criticize others' physical appearance but it's not considered acceptable at all and it's certainly not "part of the culture". Including in sports where coaches are now warned against scale obsession.

This - if my sample 20 years of living in France are anything to go by, it is not more of a thing in France than any other country…. In fact I really don’t remember it being a thing at all.

 

[hanca]

I see. I guess all those people posting it on YouTube must be mistaken. Or lying… Because it is only the Russians who comment on other people’s weight.

Isn’t it a bit like claiming that racism doesn’t exist, but basing it on my own experience of being a white female? (I am sure I wasn’t a white female, my experience would be VERY different!)

 

[TAHbKA]

Navka's show to get 14M.rubels to hold it in Luhansk.
Puke

 

[Miezekatze]

I see. I guess all those people posting it on YouTube must be mistaken. Or lying… Because it is only the Russians who comment on other people’s weight.

Isn’t it a bit like claiming that racism doesn’t exist, but basing it on my own experience of being a white female? (I am sure I wasn’t a white female, my experience would be VERY different!)

Nobody was saying that only Russians comment on other peoples weight (obviously the person who was an asshole to K. Hawayek at Skate American was not Russian). YOU were claiming that it's "normal" in many countries, for example France to comment on other peoples weight and practically everybody there finds that acceptable. Then people from France disagreed with you on that..

 

[On My Own]

I see. I guess all those people posting it on YouTube must be mistaken. Or lying… Because it is only the Russians who comment on other people’s weight.

Isn’t it a bit like claiming that racism doesn’t exist, but basing it on my own experience of being a white female? (I am sure I wasn’t a white female, my experience would be VERY different!)

I've never been to France, but I don't think it's only Russians who comment on other people's weights. As I said, I don't personally think all cultures are somehow equally valid.

That being said, I am trying to - and failing to - recall if I've ever seen/read a coach apart from a Russian in any sport I follow publicly commenting about weight, though. Unless Rafael Arutyunyan 100% counts as American when he made all those comments anyway.

 

[hanca]

Nobody was saying that only Russians comment on other peoples weight (obviously the person who was an asshole to K. Hawayek at Skate American was not Russian). YOU were claiming that it's "normal" in many countries, for example France to comment on other peoples weight and practically everybody there finds that acceptable. Then people from France disagreed with you on that..

I didn’t claim it is normal in MANY other countries, but it seems to be normal in some other countries, and no one here seems to be that bothered about it. And yes, I am aware that TWO people disagreed with me, but based what I saw on quite a few YouTube videos of people who moved to France or spent time in France studying there, I don’t think that Cholla and Millyskate’s experience is quite the same as experience from many other people.

 

[Wyliefan]

The incident with Kaitlin happened here in the United States, and this board has been in an uproar about it, so maybe rethink that "no one here seems to be that bothered about it" bit.

 

[hanca]

The incident with Kaitlin happened here in the United States, and this board has been in an uproar about it, so maybe rethink that "no one here seems to be that bothered about it" bit.

I meant no one seems to be bothered that this is quite common in France. It seems to be only criticised when a Russian coach makes such statement.

 

[On My Own]

The incident with Kaitlin happened here in the United States, and this board has been in an uproar about it, so maybe rethink that "no one here seems to be that bothered about it" bit.

Actually very curious how Zhulin even got wind of those, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

I meant no one seems to be bothered that this is quite common in France. It seems to be only criticised when a Russian coach makes such statement.

How? People were bothered by an American saying it, and they are bothered by a Russian coach saying it. I'm sure if a French person said so, the posters would criticize them, too... The reason people disagreed with you is because their perception of a country's culture is different than yours, and further because you tried to justify Zhulin's remarks as being normal simply because "it is the culture in many countries" [paraphrase].

 

[clairecloutier]

Bestemianova is now complaining about Valieva gaining too much weight. (see FSGossips if interested, I will not link.)

It just never ends with these Russian coaches.

And it also never ends with certain people here ....

 

[On My Own]

Well it's exactly like a high school bully. They don't have any intelligence, so they insult your appearance.

 

[rfisher]

Oddly, it's the Russian coaches who don't have any competitive skaters who like to talk to the press about slaters who don't skate for them. I wonder if the Russian press seeks them out or do they seek out the press. And, why anybody pays any attention to them at all? Yet, certain coaches are the ones quoted in the press, about things that have nothing to do with them.

 

[Yuri]

Actually very curious how Zhulin even got wind of those, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

Mostly likely Zhulin and others in Russia first became aware of the Hawayek situation from the media as part of a lengthier interview, such as this one with Ilya Averbukh where just a single question concerned her weight (but his answer was the one that made the headlines, because "no comment" doesn't seem to be part of the Russian vocabulary).

«Не хочешь кататься — иди ешь фастфуд на здоровье!» Авербух — о жалобе американской фигуристки

Российский хореограф Илья Авербух прокомментировал пост о фэтшейминге Кейтлин Хавайек.

www.sport-express.ru

Unlike certain Russian coaches' comments, most of the Russian media itself seems to be supportive of Hawayek and other skaters who have been targeted publicly for their size or weight, whether Russian or from other countries. Here's an example.

Американская фигуристка жалуется на эмоциональное насилие. Фанат намекнул на ее лишний вес

Надуманная проблема или болевая точка для всех спортсменов?

www.sport-express.ru

From my family's decades of involvement around major training centers in figure skating, particularly ice dancing and pairs, I am not at all surprised by the weight comments themselves made by the Russians because it's so ingrained in their culture. My only surprise is so many continue to voice these attitudes with reporters to the entire world instead of politely dodging such questions.

 

[Alilou]

I meant no one seems to be bothered that this is quite common in France. It seems to be only criticised when a Russian coach makes such statement.

Russian coaches (and former skaters - Bestemianova for one) frequently make statements about skaters' bodies. When was the last time a French coach made a statement about a skater's body? Which coach?

 

[TAHbKA]

Oddly, it's the Russian coaches who don't have any competitive skaters who like to talk to the press about slaters who don't skate for them. I wonder if the Russian press seeks them out or do they seek out the press. And, why anybody pays any attention to them at all? Yet, certain coaches are the ones quoted in the press, about things that have nothing to do with them.

Because 'Zhulin called an American skater fat' sells, the 'coach of the 5th place fakeGP team told.about their hard work' doesn't'.

 

[zebraswan]

Julianne Seguin says her Canadian coach made derogatory comments about her weight for years. I am quite certain this happens everywhere. We just hear about it the most from Russia because they are the only country where the journalists (such as they are) have everyone in the skating world on speed dial and feel the need to publish everyone's hot take on every issue du jour. And they know exactly which ones love to hear themselves talk and are willing to give the most provocative soundbites.

 

[Holy Headband]

I see. I guess all those people posting it on YouTube must be mistaken. Or lying… Because it is only the Russians who comment on other people’s weight.

Isn’t it a bit like claiming that racism doesn’t exist, but basing it on my own experience of being a white female? (I am sure I wasn’t a white female, my experience would be VERY different!)

Russians are not the only people who comment on weight more than Americans/Brits. I come from another Slavic country where it is pretty common. I also don’t like it and tell people to stop because culture is no excuse for being an asshole. (Racism against Roma people, for example, is also part of my country’s ‘culture’ in the sense of being normalised. That doesn’t make it okay and decent people realise that.)

My mother studied in France, two of her best friends are French, another of her friends is a French man married to a woman in our country, and my uncle has lived and worked in France for decades, has French citizenship and was married to a French woman. In my experience with French people, they don’t talk about weight nearly as much as Eastern Europeans, so this random deflection about French cultural norms seems like desperate whataboutery to me.

 

[hanca]

Russian coaches (and former skaters - Bestemianova for one) frequently make statements about skaters' bodies. When was the last time a French coach made a statement about a skater's body? Which coach?

To me, it seems less harmful if coaches make such comments, as opposed this being so ingrained in the culture than anyone makes such comments like in France. Parents have a choice, they can move their child to another coach or find another sport for their child but if anyone in day-to-day life can comment on someone’s weight, where can you move the child?

 

[Ka3sha]

Re Hawayek and weight comments in general:
We all know Zhulin and his usual talks, what is way more important here, Anastasia Skoptsova and Elizaveta Khudaberdieva shared Kaitlyn’s post and Skoptsova also gave comments to the press

Skoptsova has joined Sport24 team as a journalist and also made a documentary on the weight issue in sports just a few months ago, featuring Stanislava Konstantinova and Aleksandra Soldatova (former rhythmic gymnast) and is in general a big advocate for those who are struggling with mental health and eating disorders

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't think the question is whether coaches badger/pressure/shame/reject their own skaters because of their weights, whether judges and federation officials tell skaters to lose weight, or whether anyone related to skating, including parents, talk about it among themselves, whether directly or using euphemisms or gestures. In one of Brennan's books, Evy Scotvold said he used to look at the size of Tonya Harding's butt to determine what shape she was in, so he could assess his skater's chances. The behavior, while not universal, seems to be endemic.

The subject here is about the appropriateness Russian coaches and former skaters talking about other skaters' weights/prospects because of their weights publicly.

 

[On My Own]

To me, it seems less harmful if coaches make such comments, as opposed this being so ingrained in the culture than anyone makes such comments like in France. Parents have a choice, they can move their child to another coach or find another sport for their child but if anyone in day-to-day life can comment on someone’s weight, where can you move the child?

... But Russians comments about weight ARE part of their culture... How many times did I see Kaetlyn Osmond and Wakaba Higuchi being called "fat cows" during the 2014-18 quad...

 

[Barbara Manatee]

To me, it seems less harmful if coaches make such comments, as opposed this being so ingrained in the culture than anyone makes such comments like in France.

Good grief, is there no poor coaching behavior you won't find some way to excuse?

Comments about weight are harmful. Period. Full stop. When you rationalize that this one isn't so bad because that one is worse, you are enabling the abuse.

 

[hanca]

Good grief, is there no poor coaching behavior you won't find some way to excuse?

Comments about weight are harmful. Period. Full stop. When you rationalize that this one isn't so bad because that one is worse, you are enabling the abuse.

I am not finding any excuse for unprofessional behaviour, but I do find it more shocking that in western countries colleagues or even strangers make comments about someone’s weight and offer unwanted advice about what the person should be eating and how much calories is in whatever they are currently eating. With the coaches of the sports where weight does make a difference, I don’t find it as shocking because there is at least some reason why someone does it. Plus the parents do have a choice about having or not having their child in such sport. But if a stranger or a person you don’t know very well starts making such comments, where do you go from there?

Feel free to call me abuser but I will express my opinion without caring whether you like it or not. If I have a different opinion than you, you may have to deal with it.

 

[Trillian]

With the coaches of the sports where weight does make a difference, I don’t find it as shocking because there is at least some reason why someone does it.

Except that weight doesn’t “make a difference” in the way and/or to the extent that you and your abusive coach besties apparently think it does, and in many cases what you’re actually doing is promoting a thinner frame at the expense of better athletic performance. The “reason” they’re spewing this garbage is because they think their athletes need to be emaciated in order to be successful. If that’s a mindset you find easy to understand, that’s your deal, but that doesn’t mean they’re not harming their athletes by pushing dangerous lies.

 

[pointbleu]

I am not finding any excuse for unprofessional behaviour, but I do find it more shocking that in western countries colleagues or even strangers make comments about someone’s weight and offer unwanted advice about what the person should be eating and how much calories is in whatever they are currently eating. With the coaches of the sports where weight does make a difference, I don’t find it as shocking because there is at least some reason why someone does it. Plus the parents do have a choice about having or not having their child in such sport. But if a stranger or a person you don’t know very well starts making such comments, where do you go from there?

Feel free to call me abuser but I will express my opinion without caring whether you like it or not. If I have a different opinion than you, you may have to deal with it.

This is something to talk about weight behind someone’s back, in private, and going full out in the media about someone not related to you.
We’re humans, we are all full of judgements. That’s not the point. The point is : « do you have enough filter not to go publicly about that?”

Many coaches from all around the world do manage (badly) their students weight. True. How many go online to trash talk about other countries skaters?

You go girl…

 

[hanca]

Except that weight doesn’t “make a difference” in the way and/or to the extent that you and your abusive coach besties apparently think it does, and in many cases what you’re actually doing is promoting a thinner frame at the expense of better athletic performance. The “reason” they’re spewing this garbage is because they think their athletes need to be emaciated in order to be successful. If that’s a mindset you find easy to understand, that’s your deal, but that doesn’t mean they’re not harming their athletes by pushing dangerous lies.

Physics actually disagree with you. Why do you think the female skaters often lose their jumps in the puberty? Why do you think Trusova and Valieva’s jumps are so much worse than they were just eight months ago? The extra weight made a huge difference to them. You can pretend that it doesn’t matter, but many skaters even from outside Russia have been openly saying that the weight matters. For example, Johny Weir was quite open about his eating (or lack of eating) and how it was important for him to be as slim as possible. And he was not the only one. So you can kid yourself that weight doesn’t matter, but that’s not quite true, is it! Or are you so deluded that you really can’t see the obvious? The same way as height is an advantage in some sports, and a small statue for other sports, keeping the weight lower is an advantage in skating. The body rotate better. There are also the health considerations, the impact of the landing on the skaters knees and hips. If the impact during landing is four times the skaters weight, than every extra kilo makes a huge difference for their knees and hips.