Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

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Nadya said:
Apropos that, I am very curious how and why the news about what other, legal, compounds were found in her test became public. Isn't this supposed to be, you know, private sealed data? There is all kinds of stuff a pee test would show and I don't understand why they would disclose the parts of it that aren't at odds with WADA rules. What if it came back with an STD? An antiretroviral for some condition? Are we disclosing EVERYTHING about her test now?
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Evidence in a court proceeding, including a CAS proceeding is not generally confidential.
 
overedge said:
She's a young person in a training program that is very rigorous and very competitive, and run by a micro-managing coach. It's also a program that has a reputation for taking skaters in, maxing them out very quickly, and then dumping them when they are "too old", "too heavy", "too injured" etc., and there is always a supply of younger skaters coming in to take their place.

In a culture like that I have absolutely no problem believing that Valieva might have been given medication without her knowledge. I would be very surprised if she questioned what she was told to eat or what medications to take, or asked too many questions about what was in them.
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I see your point, but teenagers are rebellious and have to deal with many psychological issues. It would be a very high risk for a micromanaging adult to trust her, very high risk that she wouldn't always take her medicine or hold it down. Doping is also much more regimented than that. The levels and timing are very important. I think Johnny and Tara talked about how they knew everything that went in their body from the time they were 11 or 13 years old.
 
MacMadame said:
I'd be extremely surprised if she doesn't want to skate. She's 15, she knows there's a timer on her career and she's the Gold medal favorite. I'm sure she's dreamed about winning an OGM for years and not skating is not going to get one by withdrawing.
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I’m sure she’d rather skate too. I just don’t think it’s as simple as saying it would be “easy” for her to opt out.
 
Trillian said:
There are a bunch of distinct groups of Tatar people in Russia and a huge variety of religious practices among them. Not all Tatar people are Muslim, not all Muslim people are particularly conservative or observant. I have no idea if Valieva or Zagitova have publicly talked about their religious backgrounds, but I wouldn’t infer much of anything from Tatar heritage alone.
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That's mostly what you call "a cultural Muslim". Observant Muslim families generally wouldn't have daughters in figure skating.
 
KaoriFan said:
I see your point, but teenagers are rebellious and have to deal with many psychological issues. It would be a very high risk for a micromanaging adult to trust her, very high risk that she wouldn't always take her medicine or hold it down. Doping is also much more regimented than that. The levels and timing are very important. I think Johnny and Tara talked about how they knew everything that went in their body from the time they were 11 or 13 years old.
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If Valieva were a rebellious teenager, Eteri wouldn't be coaching her. She wants students that do what she says, and who won't question what she does. If she micromanages enough to tell a skater's parents whether they can live in the same city as their daughter, she's certainly capable of doping a skater without their knowledge.
 
Nadya said:
That's mostly what you call "a cultural Muslim". Observant Muslim families generally wouldn't have daughters in figure skating.
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Ummmm, do you and the others making sweeping generalizations about Muslim people realize that there are 1.9 billion Muslims in the world…and they’re, like, not a monolith? well, obviously you don’t. These comments are ill-informed and just bizarre…
 
Bournekraatzfan said:
Ummmm, do you and the others making sweeping generalizations about Muslim people realize that there are 1.9 billion Muslims in the world…and they’re, like, not a monolith? well, obviously you don’t. These comments are ill-informed and just bizarre…
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Yeah, well, this whole conversation started because another poster asserted that Valieva's longer skirts are due to her being more modest because she is a Tatar Muslim... soooo, if we want to chastise other posters about swooping generalizations, maybe start with the OP? Or just don't respond at all?
 
Karen-W said:
Yeah, well, this whole conversation started because another poster asserted that Valieva's longer skirts are due to her being more modest because she is a Tatar Muslim... soooo, if we want to chastise other posters about swooping generalizations, maybe start with the OP? Or just hit the "report" button and let the admins handle it?
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:rolleyes:
yes, and some of the comments that drew on the original problematic comment are problematic for the same reason, so I’m responding to them simultaneously. Also, if you post in a public forum, people other than the admin will respond to the content and nature of your posts…
 
Bournekraatzfan said:
:rolleyes:
yes, and some of the comments that drew on the original problematic comment are problematic for the same reason, so I’m responding to them simultaneously. Also, if you post in a public forum, people other than the admin will respond to the content and nature of your posts…
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Then perhaps you should have employed the multi-quote feature to respond to all of the "problematic" posts instead of attacking just one poster.

FWIW, I'm going to operate under the assumption that my response to the OP was one of the posts you found "problematic" and make it clear, since I'm not sure logic is your strong suit... My response was designed to point out that 1) Valieva doesn't always have longer skirts, and 2) not all Tatar Muslims adhere to the same standard as evidenced by her fellow Team Eteri student and 2018 Olympic champion, so, clearly, the assumption drawn in the original post was based on faulty logic. Just in case that wasn't clear.
 
Trillian said:
There are a bunch of distinct groups of Tatar people in Russia and a huge variety of religious practices among them. Not all Tatar people are Muslim, not all Muslim people are particularly conservative or observant. I have no idea if Valieva or Zagitova have publicly talked about their religious backgrounds, but I wouldn’t infer much of anything from Tatar heritage alone.
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Alina returned to Izhevsk shortly after winning gold in 2018 to a parade welcoming her back. She spoke a sentence or two in Tatar saying how proud she was to be a Muslim representing her hometown. AFAIK, that's the only time she's ever acknowledged it. I'll try to find the video on YouTube.
 
Anyway https://sports.yahoo.com/kamila-val...tions-about-grandfather-excuse-111948368.html

Quote:
When asked about the possibility that one of the permitted substances had been contaminated with TMZ, Tygart said that the amount of TMZ found in Valieva’s system — 2.1 nanograms per millileter — was roughly 200 times as much as was found in the sample of another athlete who previously proved contamination.

Tygart said, and expert witnesses summoned by Valieva’s team conceded, that the 2.1 nanograms were “actually very consistent with the tail end of an excretion,” if a full dose of TMZ had been taken days earlier.
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overedge said:
If Valieva didn't even know that she had been doped, she might not be able to answer a lot of questions about it. I fully agree that she should be responsible for what goes into her body, but I can also envision that she could be given something like, let's say, a smoothie, and be told that it has carrots, grapes, celery, whatever.....and additional ingredients that she wasn't told about.
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Can you? In a camp where food and even water intake is restricted? I can't imagine any of the skaters are given any smoothies or food or anything else at the rink. The skaters are quoted in the press as swilling their mouths with water rather than drinking it.

It's far more likely that she's been given "vitamins" and simply taken whatever has been offered because she's put her trust in her team. Shit she's probably grateful to be given a glass of water to take the pills unless Tutberidze frowns on that and expects them to dry swallow the pills. Or maybe they get vitamin injections in case those pills contain excess calories they don't want the skaters to consume.
 
As I've seen people posting on Twitter, after this skate today I'm pretty sure it's clear that ALLOWING Kamila to compete has caused her more 'irreparable harm' than disqualifying her would have.

I also really hope that her not making the podium doesn't lead to ISU, IOC, WADA, etc, brushing this all under the rug. But at the same time, I also hope that she herself (and her grandfather :grandpa:) is not vilified for the situation, which hopefully leads to some serious ramifications for her entire team.

(and I hope that she doesn't go to Worlds, and Liza gets to go and kick some serious ass).
 
screech said:
As I've seen people posting on Twitter, after this skate today I'm pretty sure it's clear that ALLOWING Kamila to compete has caused her more 'irreparable harm' than disqualifying her would have.

I also really hope that her not making the podium doesn't lead to ISU, IOC, WADA, etc, brushing this all under the rug. But at the same time, I also hope that she herself (and her grandfather :grandpa:) is not vilified for the situation, which hopefully leads to some serious ramifications for her entire team.

(and I hope that she doesn't go to Worlds, and Liza gets to go and kick some serious ass).
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We may have just witnessed the end of her competitive career. It was always probable that she'd be finished after this season, but now it seems like it's almost certain.
 
screech said:
As I've seen people posting on Twitter, after this skate today I'm pretty sure it's clear that ALLOWING Kamila to compete has caused her more 'irreparable harm' than disqualifying her would have.

I also really hope that her not making the podium doesn't lead to ISU, IOC, WADA, etc, brushing this all under the rug. But at the same time, I also hope that she herself (and her grandfather :grandpa:) is not vilified for the situation, which hopefully leads to some serious ramifications for her entire team.

(and I hope that she doesn't go to Worlds, and Liza gets to go and kick some serious ass).
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My thought exactly. It was not any better to let her skate under that pressure at such a young age. So sad story, for her, for the image of the sport, and for Olympism.
 
Anything that’s liquid eliminate faster than pills. They are good books about doping out there if you are ever interested in that subject.
 
screech said:
As I've seen people posting on Twitter, after this skate today I'm pretty sure it's clear that ALLOWING Kamila to compete has caused her more 'irreparable harm' than disqualifying her would have.

I also really hope that her not making the podium doesn't lead to ISU, IOC, WADA, etc, brushing this all under the rug. But at the same time, I also hope that she herself (and her grandfather :grandpa:) is not vilified for the situation, which hopefully leads to some serious ramifications for her entire team.

(and I hope that she doesn't go to Worlds, and Liza gets to go and kick some serious ass).
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Completely agree. Forgive me if this article has already been shared but now that the competition is over I hope to see the conversation steered back to the bigger picture re: Eteri’s abuse. The Russians executed a nice bit of gaslighting with the grandfather story- so much of the commentary/news articles over the last couple days has been poking fun at that.

slate.com

The Culture of Child Abuse That’s Poisoning Figure Skating

This is the sport’s Karolyi moment.
slate.com slate.com

The whole situation just makes me want to cry. :(. What a sh-tshow today was despite some beautiful performances.
 
Bournekraatzfan said:
Ummmm, do you and the others making sweeping generalizations about Muslim people realize that there are 1.9 billion Muslims in the world…and they’re, like, not a monolith? well, obviously you don’t. These comments are ill-informed and just bizarre…
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These comments are perfectly well informed and entirely accurate.
 
overedge said:
If Valieva didn't even know that she had been doped, she might not be able to answer a lot of questions about it. I fully agree that she should be responsible for what goes into her body, but I can also envision that she could be given something like, let's say, a smoothie, and be told that it has carrots, grapes, celery, whatever.....and additional ingredients that she wasn't told about.

And given the cult-like culture in Camp Eteri, I don't think that she's going to start publicly condemning her coach and her team at a press conference. I imagine that the world where she felt pretty secure is now disintegrating right before her eyes, and she might feel that she doesn't know who or what she can trust or believe.
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She may have been told she has to keep her mouth shut as accidents can happen.
 
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