Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[Willin]

@Areski Polina Edmunds. @Wyliefan I forgot to say one of those three apparently said the team doctor told her to swish and spit. Maybe that was Evgenia? Since Eteri doesn't want them drinking stuff at competitions.

Link here: open.spotify.com/episode/22BSIkhrc9CBIg5yBDH9OC

 

[Sylvia]

Do you mean Polina Shelepen? Can you give me a link to this podcast or some cue how to access it?

For those who'd rather not support Spotify :

Polna Edmunds:

The Iron Butterfly: 2022 Olympics Doping Scandal

Giving you all the details on the 2022 Olympic doping scandal, where 15 year old Kamila Valieva, predicted to win the gold medal in women’s figure skating, failed a drug test for Trimetazidine.

bleav.com

 

[Trillian]

ITA! However, let’s remind ourselves that Valieva, as a Tatar Muslim with strict parents, might be a bit more sheltered than the usual teen in 2022. Her parents requested the longer costume for the In Memoriam SP, for ex.

Doesn't she wear a body suit in her Avatar exhibition program? Or at least a costume that doesn't have an extra-long skirt?

And, isn't Alina Zagitova also a Tatar Muslim? Her 2018 costumes definitely didn't have long skirts...

There are a bunch of distinct groups of Tatar people in Russia and a huge variety of religious practices among them. Not all Tatar people are Muslim, not all Muslim people are particularly conservative or observant. I have no idea if Valieva or Zagitova have publicly talked about their religious backgrounds, but I wouldn’t infer much of anything from Tatar heritage alone.

 

[DreamSkates]

She's 15 is the good reason. She's a child.

The whole purpose of having children be Protected People is to withhold their identities so they won't be to be grilled, or shamed, publicly.

The same WADA Code that will punish her for the violation (despite her age) is also supposed to protect her from public scrutiny. You can't demand that one part of the Code be upheld but disregard the other.

The other skaters deserve answers, but it doesn't have to be right now, it doesn't have to be in the form of an Olympic press conference, it doesn't have to come directly out of Valieva's mouth, and it doesn't have to be on camera.

A press conference right now would be nothing but a public pillorying of a kid.

As Ashley Wagner and other skaters have said :
1. You start drug testing at age 11 and up. You know what it is about. You are expected to take responsibility for what you put in your body be that healthy food or banned substances.
2. When you compete on the biggest athletic stage on the planet, the Olympics, you are competing with adults and must live up to that standa

She's 15 is the good reason. She's a child.

The whole purpose of having children be Protected People is to withhold their identities so they won't be to be grilled, or shamed, publicly.

The same WADA Code that will punish her for the violation (despite her age) is also supposed to protect her from public scrutiny. You can't demand that one part of the Code be upheld but disregard the other.

The other skaters deserve answers, but it doesn't have to be right now, it doesn't have to be in the form of an Olympic press conference, it doesn't have to come directly out of Valieva's mouth, and it doesn't have to be on camera.

A press conference right now would be nothing but a public pillorying of a kid.

As Ashley Wagner and other figure skaters who competed at elite levels have said (much discussed during Olympic Ice on NBC/Peacock):
1. Skaters begin testing for drugs at age 11-13. They know the drill. In the US there is a hotline to call if you catch a cold or have anything going on requiring medication, to ask if what you want/need to take is acceptable. Skaters learn quickly to be responsible in this area. They will be tested and held accountable.
2. Competing in the most monumental athletic event on the planet means you are also competing with adults. That takes your responsibility, and that of those around, up a few notches. Even a 15 year old is aware of same. The same rules apply to all.
3. A skater competing at the elite level has, after the years of competing and training, developed - or is expected to develop - a great responsibility for what he/she takes into the body whether that be a healthy substance or one that is for medication or one that is banned. It is no secret what is banned and it is a skater's responsibility to make sure no substances go in their mouths that are banned.
4. At the elite level, it is not a child's sport. There are rules that should apply equally to everyone. It is the same in school, in work and in sports. Compete at an elite level and by then you know the rules.
5. Parents and coaches also bear a great responsibility for the health and well-being of their skaters, although ultimately a skater can choose to do something harmful that parents and coaches are unaware of.

 

[DreamSkates]

Valieva stated that she was taking 2 accepted substance for the heart and the 3rd, the one in question, by accident.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2022/02/16/kamila-valieva-heart-medications/

 

[kates8]

AP sources: US skaters to get Olympic torches as medals wait:

AP sources: US skaters to get Olympic torches as medals wait

IOC president Thomas Bach has offered U.S. figure skaters Olympic torches as holdover gifts while they await a resolution of the Russian doping case preventing them from receiving their silver medals.

apnews.com

Maybe they should do what the US does every year and do a medal presentation with the fourth place skaters/teams and award a "pewter" so that if the medals are taken away from Russian Team and KV, then the fourth place teams at least got to stand in the olympic medal park and receive recognition and the current silver and bronze teams also get their current medals awarded in front of the world. These athletes from Japan, US, Canada etc. deserve to have their moment at these Olympics and not a medal mailed to them months/years later.

 

[Muffin]

As Ashley Wagner and other skaters have said :

This has nothing to do with whether or not to hold Valieva accountable for her doping. I hope she is held fully accountable, suspended and DQ'd - as well as her coaches and doctors and the Russian Olympic Committee.

This is being needlessly cruel to a kid by shaming, humiliating, and badgering her in front of billions of TV viewers for no purpose except vicious entertainment. Even if she weren't a kid (and I don't care how "savvy" she may or may not be, she's a kid), it's wrong. Adults who have found themselves under that type of world-wide press attention in the past have killed themselves, or spent the rest of their lives unable to recover.

Her life should not be ruined over this. She's the victim of a system much more powerful than her, and she's already suffered more than enough abuse.

 

[KaoriFan]

If anyone think Kamila will be stripped of any medal after Olympics, you haven't been watching figure skating long enough. Whether the IOC will ever issue medals or not, I don't know, but the ISU will never sanction her or Russia. Once the Olympics are over, they will hope the whole thing blow over. Always expect the most corrupt outcome with the ISU. The judges still scored her first yesterday, despite a fall when they could have punished her, they didn't file CAS appeal until last, one day after WADA and IOC, and I can just picture them playing 'devil's advocate' on behalf of Kamila over and over again during that six hour meeting.

 

[manhn]

Is there a reason why figure skating would be uniquely immune to stripping of medals? It happens to other sports--lots of times.

 

[rhapsody]

If anyone think Kamila will be stripped of any medal after Olympics, you haven't been watching figure skating long enough. Whether the IOC will ever issue medals or not, I don't know, but the ISU will never sanction her or Russia. Once the Olympics are over, they will hope the whole thing blow over. Always expect the most corrupt outcome with the ISU. The judges still scored her first yesterday, despite a fall when they could have punished her, they didn't file CAS appeal until last, one day after WADA and IOC, and I can just picture them playing 'devil's advocate' on behalf of Kamila over and over again during that six hour meeting.

On the one hand, these are exactly my thoughts because of Russia's history of brazen corruption.

But on the other hand you should probably recognize that the ISU is the governing body that awards medals at the Olympics, and the ISU made it clear that they would not be holding a podium ceremony if Kamila wins a medal. The ISU actually pushed to not have her compete alongside the IOC but CAS sided with RUSADA. From the outside, it looks like the ISU and IOC wanted to do the right thing but I'm nervous about them pushing for it once the media attention dies off after the Games end.

 

[soogar]

Listening to this "15 years old and just a child" makes me think of David Chappelle skit- just how old is 15 really. He makes good points about how people are ready to throw a 15 year old in jail if they commit a crime. This seems to mirror Sha'Carri's statement. I wonder if Valieva was 15 and black and found with weed in her system, whether anyone would talk about her being a "little girl."

https://youtu.be/75XKGVwGEt4

 

[Wyliefan]

That's an argument for treating black 15 year olds better, not for treating all 15 year olds like adults.

 

[Allskate]

In this case, I definitely think sympathy for Valieva's age and the extreme circumstances she is in should exempt her from all press conferences. Doping is a big deal, but press conferences are not. This is exactly where her being a "Protected Person" should come into play.

Yeah, but unfortunately that same concern is not being extended to youngsters like Alyssa Liu, who has been questioned about the doping. A bunch of skaters have had to answer questions about it on the eve of or in the middle of the most important competition of their lives. A competition they have dreamed about for most of their lives, with those dreams not including the nightmare scenario of doping by other competitors.

I'm not saying that Valieva should be harassed, but at some point I do think she needs to publicly respond to respectfully posed questions. If the rule is going to be that a 15 year-old can dope and not have to answer questions about it, then again I think such a skater should not be allowed to compete.

I'm frustrated because of the focus by CAS and others on the impact on Valieva and little concern for the impact of this on others, including other skaters.

 

[Muffin]

Is there a reason why figure skating would be uniquely immune to stripping of medals? It happens to other sports--lots of times.

Because figure skating is extraordinarily corrupt in a way most other sports aren't.

I don't have a lot of faith in the ISU or IOC, but I think this is a situation similar to the 2002 judging scandal in that the whole world has witnessed corruption far too appalling just to be swept under the rug in the usual fashion.

I feel like the anger and disgust about this situation is far greater than it was about the situation is 2002. Judging is subjective, and there were still people debating the merits of Berezhnaya-Sikharulidze vs Sale-Pelletier until recently.

But there's nothing subjective about this situation. There was a straightforward doping violation, the rules are clear, and the punishment is mandatory. I don't agree with CAS's decision to let her skate, but I did understand the rationale behind the decision.

 

[manhn]

I guess I don't see figure skating as being more corrupt than, say, gymnastics.

 

[Muffin]

Yeah, but unfortunately that same concern is not being extended to youngsters like Alyssa Liu, who has been questioned about the doping. A bunch of skaters have had to answer questions about it on the eve of or in the middle of the most important competition of their lives. A competition they have dreamed about for most of their lives, with those dreams not including the nightmare scenario of doping by other competitors.

I'm not saying that Valieva should be harassed, but at some point I do think she needs to publicly respond to respectfully posed questions. If the rule is going to be that a 15 year-old can dope and not have to answer questions about it, then again I think such a skater should not be allowed to compete.

Alyssa Liu being asked about it is not remotely the same. Alyssa is not being questioned like a criminal about her own wrongdoing, she's just being asked for her opinion. And the Liu family has been more than forthcoming with their opinions on social media, so clearly they feel comfortable sharing.

I absolutely think the minimum age for senior competition should be raised to 18. Not 17. Not 17 with so many exceptions that 17 turns into 15. Just 18.

 

[Muffin]

I guess I don't see figure skating as being more corrupt than, say, gymnastics.

Figure skating is more corrupt than "most sports", not all. Gymnastics is still keeping that race to the bottom alive.

 

[overedge]

Figure skating is more corrupt than "most sports", not all. Gymnastics is still keeping that race to the bottom alive.

By "corrupt" do you mean the amount of doping? The amount of abuse? The amount of ?

 

[iceskater10]

AP sources: US skaters to get Olympic torches as medals wait:

AP sources: US skaters to get Olympic torches as medals wait

IOC president Thomas Bach has offered U.S. figure skaters Olympic torches as holdover gifts while they await a resolution of the Russian doping case preventing them from receiving their silver medals.

apnews.com

I am sure they want to cart a torch home???A medal would fit better in the luggage.

 

[Trillian]

I'm not saying that Valieva should be harassed, but at some point I do think she needs to publicly respond to respectfully posed questions.

Why? A child who has been exploited by the so-called responsible adults in her life should have to publicly discuss the details of the exploitation? I can’t see any reason that’s a reasonable thing to ask.

If the rule is going to be that a 15 year-old can dope and not have to answer questions about it, then again I think such a skater should not be allowed to compete.

Correct. But that’s a structural problem that should be fixed, not an excuse to further traumatize a kid who never should have been in this situation in the first place.

I'm frustrated because of the focus by CAS and others on the impact on Valieva and little concern for the impact of this on others, including other skaters.

I agree. But I don’t think Valieva is to blame for that.

 

[Seerek]

Somewhat unrelated, but ROC currently leads w/most cross country ski medals thus far (9) - as expected, reactions are mixed

Bolshunov has never tested positive. But the shadow of Sochi still hangs over his Olympic win. – FasterSkier

fasterskier.com

Gullene OL trengte – inkludert det vi ikke ville ha

Aleksandr Bolsjunov tok et så fortjent gull som det nesten er mulig. Problemet er bare at han og de andre russiske utøverne aldri burde fått stått på startstreken i dette OL.

www.nrk.no

 

[Allskate]

Alyssa Liu being asked about it is not remotely the same. Alyssa is not being questioned like a criminal about her own wrongdoing, she's just being asked for her opinion. And the Liu family has been more than forthcoming with their opinions on social media, so clearly they feel comfortable sharing.

It is not exactly the same partly because Alyssa and those other skaters didn't take a banned substance and Valieva did. There are some who are expressing concern for the impact on Valieva if she has to answer questions about her actions, but most of those same people are not expressing concern about the impact of questioning on others. Their situations don't have to be exactly the same to be a concern.

Here, it seems that, if you took a banned subtance, you don't have to discuss it, but if you're clean and did everything right, you have to have your experience marred and your competition focus disrupted by answering questions about it.

Alyssa seemed much more reluctant to discuss it than her dad. And it's not just Alyssa. There are skaters who have said they didn't want to talk about it and wanted to focus on their own skating but have been asked about it. I have no doubt that a lot of skaters are walking on eggshells answering the questions because they are concerned about the consequences for them if they say what they really think. That stinks. They matter. The harm to them matters.

That doesn't mean only they matter, but I am really sick of some people focusing primarily or even exclusively on Valieva and her age. It becomes more frustrating because Valieva's team seems to be exploiting her age to allow her to compete. Again, I am not suggesting that she has to be harassed by a pack of journalists this week, but I would like to see more concern by some people for the impact of this on others.

 

[Xela M]

By "corrupt" do you mean the amount of doping? The amount of abuse? The amount of ?

Probably all of the above

 

[million$momma]

Doesn't she wear a body suit in her Avatar exhibition program? Or at least a costume that doesn't have an extra-long skirt?

And, isn't Alina Zagitova also a Tatar Muslim? Her 2018 costumes definitely didn't have long skirts...

Their might be a difference in skirt length due to hitting puberty. The Muslim girls that attend our school dress in a drastically different way after hitting puberty.

 

[becca]

Their might be a difference in skirt length due to hitting puberty. The Muslim girls that attend our school dress in a drastically different way after hitting puberty.

I don't know? I kind of feel that if Kamila was really from a very conservative Muslim family she would be dressing a LOT more modestly

 

[Sylvia]

Alyssa seemed much more reluctant to discuss it than her dad. And it's not just Alyssa. There are skaters who have said they didn't want to talk about it and wanted to focus on their own skating but have been asked about it. I have no doubt that a lot of skaters are walking on eggshells answering the questions because they are concerned about the consequences for them if they say what they really think. That stinks. They matter. The harm to them matters.

For those interested and who may have missed it, I copied out what Alysa's dad, Arthur Liu, said on the record (highly unusual for a parent to have done this, let alone before their skater had competed at the Olympics!) to a journalist here:
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...s-from-the-hearing.109428/page-3#post-6205260

 

[once_upon]

If a skater is too young to face reporters/media for because of potential harassment the send in her coach and training team in to take the hit.

I've gone from being very sympathic to Kalima to down right fury as more data is shared with us.

Teams are prevented from having their Olympic moment and women skaters are not being allowed to have a fair field because the powers that be are protecting someone who broke the rules (and it doesn't seem that Russia is denying it happened). Because she 58 days short of being 16?

Like in 58 days she will be suddenly OK with intense reporter questioning? Or be able to take responsibility for what she put in her body?

She is not 10 or 12 or even just barely 15. She is less than 2 months from being 16.

 

[Trillian]

That doesn't mean only they matter, but I am really sick of some people focusing primarily or even exclusively on Valieva and her age. It becomes more frustrating because Valieva's team seems to be exploiting her age to allow her to compete. Again, I am not suggesting that she has to be harassed by a pack of journalists this week, but I would like to see more concern by some people for the impact of this on others.

I agree. This is a terrible situation for everyone involved and none of them should have to discuss it publicly, especially the kids. I just don’t think punishing Valieva by forcing her to talk to the media is the answer.

One thing I keep thinking about is the way this is being framed as a brand new problem, when really it’s just a different head of the same monster. We already have a long history of young girls being damaged in so many ways during their figure skating careers, and it’s hard enough to get people to admit there are serious systemic problems, let alone try to do anything about it. I don’t think Valieva should be competing and I don’t think she’s the only skater who will be traumatized by this. But I do think we need to focus less on one specific girl and more on finally making this sport safer for all of them. Otherwise, regardless of how this all turns out, we won’t really be addressing the underlying problems.

 

[Trillian]

Teams are prevented from having their Olympic moment and women skaters are not being allowed to have a fair field because the powers that be are protecting someone who broke the rules (and it doesn't seem that Russia is denying it happened). Because she 58 days short of being 16?

No. Because the adults aren’t protecting her, they’re protecting themselves and whatever their role was in drugging her. The powers-that-be are not now, and never have been, truly concerned about the well being of children in this sport. If they were, none of this would be happening.

 

[becca]

If a skater is too young to face reporters/media for because of potential harassment the send in her coach and training team in to take the hit.

I've gone from being very sympathic to Kalima to down right fury as more data is shared with us.

Teams are prevented from having their Olympic moment and women skaters are not being allowed to have a fair field because the powers that be are protecting someone who broke the rules (and it doesn't seem that Russia is denying it happened). Because she 58 days short of being 16?

Like in 58 days she will be suddenly OK with intense reporter questioning? Or be able to take responsibility for what she put in her body?

She is not 10 or 12 or even just barely 15. She is less than 2 months from being 16.

I would be sympathetic to a 16 year old too. We need to figure out what happened.

She is not old enough for consent and let’s point out the adults her mother and her grandfather are supporting all of this