Royalty Thread #8.....A Pregnant Pause

[AxelAnnie]

I have been holding on to my opinion that the hate and vitriol is not racial. No longer. I suspect now that much of it is racial, and then there is her divorce...and the different country.....and her feuding family....

Additionally, she brings much of this muck down on her head herself. Royals are supposed to be.......well.....Royal. If she thought she could be other than that, she was simply wrong. I worry for Harry. He is such an open and fun guy, he doesn't deserve the headaches.

Meghan styles herself a movie star.....(that is what she is familiar with)...but this isn't that.

The monarchy (any monarchy) in this day and age is about tradition, spectacle and admiration. The Queen is wildly popular. She is also VERY content in her roles as both Queen and Matriarch. Meghan walks a fine line between acceptance and failure every time she tries to leave her mark on the Family Business.

Boy, I would be minding my p(s) and q(s)

Mind your Ps and Qs is an English language expression meaning "mind your manners", "mind your language", "be on your best behaviour", "watch what you're doing" or similar.

for a while before I tried to make changes to something that has hundreds of years of history.

 

[Jimena]

I don't understand why people say that Meghan has been trying to change the monarchy. But then again, I haven't really been a royal watcher, ever. So what do I know.

I like both Meghan and Harry. They seem very real to me.

 

[attyfan]

I don't think Meghan and Harry are consciously trying to change the monarchy; I doubt that either of them think they could do so even if they wanted to -- simply because Harry and Meghan are not future monarchs. As such, I also believe that they badly underestimated the amount of press attention that they would get. I think their best bet is to look at what happened to Camilla .... the kind of press she got seems to have improved with time ... and the same can happen with Harry and Meghan.

 

[Parsley Sage]

Are those the doctors who delivered the Queen's children? If not, she hasn't required any pregnancy care from them, so there's no way of knowing how good they are in that regard. If they have, they're quite old, so there's a good Chance there are younger doctors who are better or at least, who are better at delivering babies.

But what I think is more important than anything is who Meghan is comfortable with. Not everyone is comfortable with every doctor but everyone should have the doctor they trust the most around, especially for something as stressful as giving birth.

They are the Doctors that delivered Kate's children. The Royal Gynecologists. They are not that old and are currently practicing.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...horpe-beeston-meet-doctors-will-deliver-kate/

 

[Sylvia]

Emperor's abdication stirs female succession debate in Japan: https://japantoday.com/category/national/japan-abdication-stirs-female-succession-debate

Emperor Akihito's historic abdication later this month has reignited concerns over the future of what is believed to be one of the world's oldest royal families, given its hereditary, male-only succession rules.
As it stands, the fate of the Japanese imperial family rests on 12-year-old Hisahito, the son of Crown Prince Naruhito's younger brother and the last eligible male heir.
Japan's centuries-old succession would be broken if Hisahito does not have a male child as the Imperial Household Law, in place since 1947, does not allow women to ascend the Chrysanthemum Throne.
That means Naruhito's only child, 17-year-old Princess Aiko, is not in line to inherit the throne.
While public attitudes seem to be shifting to change the succession laws to allow women to rule, the chance of concrete reform looks remote.

Here's everything you need to know about Crown Prince Naruhito, who will become Emperor of Japan after the country's first abdication in 200 years: https://www.thisisinsider.com/japan...l-become-the-countrys-next-emperor-on-may-1-1

 

[PDilemma]

I suspect some of the more dreadful stuff is racially motivated, but 90% is the same old same old, and 5% is probably fairly legitimate critic (Meghan has worn some ill fitting clothes for example and strictly speaking a critic of clothing, at least for someone who says very little and is in the public eye, is not personal.) But the building up just to tear down is really tiresome. I hope neither Meghan nor Harry are reading the press. As for photos when out in public, Harry is going to have to take a chill pill. There are many effective ways to deal with the press and getting snarky and covering lenses is not one of them.

There is a bit of racism in the surrogacy conspiracy (they had to get a white surrogate and she's the bio mother...). But I agree that not all of it is racially motivated. I'm not sure everyone in the UK is comfortable with her being American, frankly, no matter her ethnicity. And she has made some bad missteps--very expensive wardrobe, very few British designers, the baby shower trip to NYC--all of those have left the British people feeling that she is overspending and whether it is valid or not, most interpret the situation as it being their tax dollars. That is what a lot of the comments on British outlets tend to focus on. She would be wise to wear more ready to wear clothes from British designers and to begin repeating items as well. She also seems to ignore protocol which can be attributed to her being American and increases the discomfort. Charging ahead of Harry to greet dignitaries, pulling him away from people on more than one occasion, clothing that is deemed out of protocol, looking generally messy at times--none of those things are endearing her to the British people or press, either.

Harry has his own issues. Whining about the press all the time is not helping. And ranting about the evils of social media less than 24 hours after they grandly launched an Instagram account...well, he's not going to win Self Aware Royal of the Year.

 

[Vagabond]

And ranting about the evils of social media less than 24 hours after they grandly launched an Instagram account...well, he's not going to win Self Aware Royal of the Year.

Who is?

 

[ballettmaus]

They are the Doctors that delivered Kate's children. The Royal Gynecologists. They are not that old and are currently practicing.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...horpe-beeston-meet-doctors-will-deliver-kate/

So, they probably weren't chosen to be the Queen's doctors because of their expertise in childbirth.

 

[canbelto]

There is a bit of racism in the surrogacy conspiracy (they had to get a white surrogate and she's the bio mother...). But I agree that not all of it is racially motivated. I'm not sure everyone in the UK is comfortable with her being American, frankly, no matter her ethnicity.

I find the surrogacy thing very creepy, as is the gynecological examination of her pregnant body.

I noticed the comments about her went from general (and sometimes valid) criticisms to really creepy when she ... got pregnant. I think quite frankly much of the British public is not ready for a royal child of mixed race, and one who will be an American citizen. The harebrained attempts to "save the British monarchy" by kidnapping the baby/killing the baby/harming the baby as well as the hysterical conspiracy theories about her pregnancy seem to stem from the fact that with a baby coming any day, they're going to have a "royal" who is of mixed race and not British.

I spent some time on Youtube and besides the "Meghan is a man" conspiracy theory there's another one floating around that they "saw" a pillow under a dress. And the fixation on her non-swollen legs. As I said, the comments are beyond creepy.

There's the usual gossip stuff, but this stuff I think is very related to a discomfort ppl have about her having a royal heir, even if the heir is not directly in line for the throne.

 

[Japanfan]

NM, post was OT.

 

[Lorac]

So, they probably weren't chosen to be the Queen's doctors because of their expertise in childbirth.

They are actually Dr's who have their own private practices with private clients and have the Queen and other members of the Royal Family including William and Kate as patients. They are already established in their careers before the Queen appoints them to the roll and they don't stop working with other patients once assigned to the roll of royal gynaecologist. They have plenty of expertise in delivering babies. True they haven't given birth themselves but we can't assume the female Dr that Meghan has supposedly (we only have the media's speculation in regards to that) hired has given birth either.

 

[Lorac]

Who is?

Prince Harry warns social media is 'more addictive than alcohol and drugs'

It wasn't really a rant - but it was a little weird in its timing coming 24 hours after he and Meghan launched their Instagram account.

 

[Vagabond]

Prince Harry warns social media is 'more addictive than alcohol and drugs'

It wasn't really a rant - but it was a little weird in its timing coming 24 hours after he and Meghan launched their Instagram account.

I wasn't asking about Harry. I was asking who was going to win Self-Aware Royal of the Year.

 

[mag]

I think the key thing with the Queen’s doctors is that they would have been vetted for security and trustworthiness. You are not going to see one write a tell all book. That said, I firmly believe that Meghan should chose a doctor she is comfortable with. She is the one having the baby.

 

[aftershocks]

I have read some online discussions that are saying that they baby will look "African" and thus the royal family won't accept the baby ... But as I said, royal gossipmongers.

I know you are simply reporting what you've read, so I'm not addressing you in particular. Humankind originates out of Africa. African blood runs through the veins of many humans. Just as European blood runs through the veins of many brown-skinned and olive-skinned people. Imagine that! Wowza! The concept of 'different races' is a manmade social construct. In any case, the British royal family is quite aware of their varied historic origins: Queen Sofia Charlotte (married to King George III of Great Britain) had African blood in different lines on her maternal side via the Portuguese royal family's intermixing with Moors. In fact, a great deal of the population of Europe, particularly southern Europe intermixed with Africans/ Moors historically, and in fact it's not that uncommon today and over recent centuries either. The famous de Medici family of France intermixed with Africans. Again, it was not unusual or frowned upon historically. It's well-known that Alexander Pushkin, the literary lion of Russia had African blood.
https://aaregistry.org/story/englands-first-black-queen-sophie-charlotte-born/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-royal/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c42a43fe8846

Princess Angela of Liechtenstein's son, Prince Alfons, is quite handsome. He has an olive-toned complexion and curly hair, with facial features similar to those of his father, Prince Max. His mother was born in Panama, and raised in New York City. His parents met in 1997 in New York. They married in 2000, and he was born in 2001.
Prince Alfons with his parents:
https://howafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/PrinceAlfons-768x662.jpg

If we think about biology and genetics, it's likely that the Sussex baby will have a fair to olive-toned complexion, wavy to curly hair, and eye color anywhere from brown, to green, to blue, to hazel.

Meghan has naturally curly hair which she prefers to wear straight. She's gorgeous anyway you look at it. And so, I'm sure the baby will be as well. Prince Harry was rather cute as a little boy. And I liked his looks better without the beard, albeit the beard makes him look more mature. One of the reasons Meghan is pretty fair-skinned is likely due to the fact that her mother, Doria, surely has light-skinned genes as part of her DNA, most likely originating on both sides of Doria's family.

Interestingly, I suspect Meghan possibly had slight tweaking of her nose done when she began pursuing an acting career. If she did, it was probably very subtle. I say that because it seems to me her nose was a bit broader in her face as a teenager, than it is today. If she had work done, it was probably a slight bit of nostril pinching mostly. But the tip of her nose which is so cute, she gets from her father. Both her parents have rounded broad noses though:
https://cdn.directexpose.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/16-James-Breeden-The-Sun.jpg
https://www.washingtonpost.com/pbox...4&op=resize&opt=1&filter=antialias&t=20170517
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180504151636-meghan-markle-year-book-photo-super-169.jpg
https://img1.nickiswift.com/img/gallery/the-shady-side-of-meghan-markle/intro-1515609116.jpg
https://static.timesofisrael.com/jewishndev/uploads/2017/05/PROD-Meghan-Markle-640x400.jpg
https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/fashion/daily/2018/07/18/18-meghan-markle.w700.h700.jpg

It's not unusual in Hollywood to have some type of cosmetic surgery. Benjamin Bratt famously had his broad nose tweaked to look thinner, and doing so seemingly helped land him more roles. It doesn't matter what a person's ethnic background is though, when it comes to contemplating tweaking one's looks. I'm so glad, for example, that Michelle Kwan never listened to whoever told her to get a nose job when she was a young skater. Her nose is one of her best, iconic features.

So what's meant by "African-looking" anyway? Iman is African and her facial features are somewhat sharp and striking, and her skin is a beautiful deep dark brown:
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/i..._publish_494/f32608beffae52dee91d63c6e76648d4
Here's their 17-year-old daughter, Lexi:
https://media.wmagazine.com/photos/...575_688580008014127_1325013473993687040_n.jpg Does she look 'African'?

 

[aftershocks]

And then look at this story, in case you missed it: Fraternal female twins whose parents are British and British-Jamaican. They are twins mind you, and they both have the shape of their father's nose (albeit one has a slightly broader nose than the other), while their skin and hair color are strikingly different:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-twins-black-white-biggs/

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Family/video/meet-black-white-twins-millie-marcia-53676314

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS4DGri-NBo Millie & Marcia with their parents – race is a
social construct

https://womenintheworld.com/2018/03...ographic-confronts-its-own-history-of-racism/

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/c...s-and-the-falsehood-of-our-post-racial-future

https://thegrio.com/2018/03/12/twin...ey-think-one-is-white-and-the-other-is-black/

If anything, this is an example that we are all human, period. But no, the back-and-forth and confusion and bust-ups about 'race' is unlikely to end in our lifetimes.

 

[Vagabond]

Queen Sofia Charlotte (married to King George III of Great Britain) had African blood in different lines on her maternal side via the Portuguese royal family's intermixing with Moors.

As a historian, I feel compelled to respond to this statement.

We all have African "lood," or rather genes, but in the case of Charlotte of Mecklenberg-Strelitz her most recent apparent genetic connection with Africa was with a North African woman who probably had some combination of Berber, Arab, Iberian, and/or Germanic ancestry. To say that she had "African blood" is to distort history in order to suit some particular agenda.

Madragana

Madragana Ben Aloandro, later Maior or Mór Afonso (born c. 1230, Faro, Algarve, Portugal), was a woman from the Algarve known as a mistress to king Afonso III of Portugal, in the 13th century, when he ended the Reconquista in Portugal by taking Faro in 1249. Faro was at that time the last part of the Kingdom of the Algarve still in Muslim hands, and there her father was the Qadi.

There is some controversy regarding her ethnicity. Duarte Nunes de Leão, a Portuguese royal chronicler of the 16th century, said that Madragana was a Moor. That was denied in the 18th century by António Caetano de Sousa in which he is followed by many modern authors. She was probably Mozarab. Nonetheless, this supposed Moorish connection gave rise to a claim that the royal family of England had African ancestry via the 15-generation descent of Queen Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, wife of George III of the United Kingdom, from Madragana, giving the Queen what the proponent described as the appearance of a 'mulatto'. However, it is far from clear that Madragana's family was of African descent origin, nor is it likely that were she African, Madragana's negligible contribution to Charlotte's genetic makeup would have caused the Queen alone, among all of Madgarana's descendants at this distant time to display distinctive African features.

Moor

Moor, in English usage, a Moroccan or, formerly, a member of the Muslim population of what is now Spain and Portugal. Of mixed Arab, Spanish, and Amazigh (Berber) origins, the Moors created the Arab Andalusian civilization and subsequently settled as refugees in North Africa between the 11th and 17th centuries.

Mozarabs

is a modern historical term that refers to the Iberian Christians who lived under Moorish rule in Al-Andalus. Although their descendants remained unconverted to Islam, they were mostly fluent in Arabic and adopted elements of Arabic culture. The local Romance vernaculars, heavily permeated by Arabic, spoken by Christians and Muslim alike has also come to be known as Mozarabic language. Mozarabs were mostly Roman Catholics of the Visigothic or Mozarabic Rite.

Most of the Mozarabs were descendants of Hispanic Christians and were primarily speakers of Mozarabic (late Latin of Iberia) under Islamic rule. They also included those members of the former Visigothic ruling elite who did not convert to Islam or emigrate northwards after the Muslim conquest.

A few were Arab and Berber Christians coupled with Muslim converts to Christianity who, as Arabic speakers, naturally were at home among the original Mozarabs.

 

[aftershocks]

Yeah, yeah @Vagabond. You see there's this agenda afloat to try and deny the 'African' in all of us. So it becomes very important in some quarters to debunk and dismiss the findings about Queen Sofia Charlotte's background. The royal family members who matter ain't the least bit worried about their ancient heritage, and all of the convoluted hoohaw being spout surrounding Queen Sofia Charlotte's heritage. I doubt they have any worries in this regard whatsoever. It would probably blow your mind to kingdom come to discover quite a lot of truths about human history. But continue basking in your know-it-all unself-awareness as a well-versed 'historian'.

I suppose this is beyond pointing out but Kate didn't swell much in any of her pregnancies either?

Kate's legs plumped up a bit, and she obviously was bigger overall. I think Kate looked healthier during her pregnancies than she does now with her current 'stick-thin' appearance.

Meghan also swelled up a slight bit in her face. And she's roly poly around her mid-section, hip and thigh area. Her legs have always been very thin, but she appears to have gained more weight in her legs too, which is great. It doesn't look bad on her at all.

And if they can't shut it down a bit, it will follow their poor child forever.

The Sussex baby will have two of the most remarkable and loving parents in the world, in addition to being born into an ancient, royal, and well-protected family. The public will not see that much of this baby in public. We've seen very little of Prince Louis, and we will surely see even less of the Sussex offspring. They will be raised in the idyliic country setting of Windsor Home Park. What a lucky child! The freakin' crap on the Internet can remain there, and those perpetrating it are only doing harm to their own lives and psyches, and they will answer for it when they meet their maker.

... My college roommate has seven children. Two sets of twins, three singletons, and also miscarried one at 12 weeks. They were all born after she was 33 and the last when she was 43. No fertility treatments... My father-in-law was born shortly after his mother turned 46 in a time when there were no fertility treatments...

Indeed. I have a cousin who had four children before the age of 45 (starting in her twenties). By age 45, she and her husband figured they didn't have to practice birth control so strictly. Oops, she got pregnant again at 45. She was always very fertile in any case. Well, they had a fifth child who was very healthy like his siblings. The only problem is, as the youngest, a bit younger than his older siblings, he grew up rather spoiled. But he's also sweet, and kind.

I don't think Meghan and Harry are consciously trying to change the monarchy; I doubt that either of them think they could do so even if they wanted to -- simply because Harry and Meghan are not future monarchs. As such, I also believe that they badly underestimated the amount of press attention that they would get. I think their best bet is to look at what happened to Camilla .... the kind of press she got seems to have improved with time ... and the same can happen with Harry and Meghan.

I agree. But I doubt they are overly worried about the clamor in the press and online. There are probably more people who wish them well and who pray for them, than there are the utter crazies who clearly have serious emotional problems.

I was asking who was going to win Self-Aware Royal of the Year.

A lot of people are not that self-aware. But I think at least some of the royals, including Meghan and Harry, and especially the Queen have the jump on a portion of the world's populace, when it comes to self-awareness.

Applying common sense instead of relying upon a superficial, simplistic reading, should make it obvious that Prince Harry understands the benefits as well as the dangers of social media. He's talking specifically about the dangers, which does not mean he needs to forego utilizing social media for the purpose of communicating with people in a positive, beneficial manner.

 

[aftershocks]

... I've been wondering for a while if Meghan may ultimately regret marrying into the royal family. Her life is probably a lot more stressful now and less fun than when she was an actress on a TV show. Even if she enjoys attention, she can't possibly enjoy being the center of mean, crazy online conspiracies, not to mention all the negative press from the tabloids.

Meghan has stated that she reads none of it. Harry doesn't either. They have so much more interesting and engaging things to do with their time. During the recent Queen's Commonwealth Trust panel discussion on International Women's Day, Meghan reiterated that she does not read anything on social media, nor does she read most publications. She said that she reads The Economist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GDsdm0uyQg

I have wondered too how Meghan feels about what's been happening online and in the media (some of which she's been told about, but hasn't read). However, my impression of Meghan is that she's very savvy, kind, determined, smart, admittedly ambitious, and fearless. She's also clearly deeply in love with her husband. That's what draws me in: the romance of this unique love story. And the fact that both Meghan and Harry are caring and committed young people who simply want to enjoy their lives to the fullest, while giving back to others in every way that they possibly can. I find that exemplary.

From all that I've read and seen of Meghan, heard her say, and read that she's written, she is likely fully embracing her new life. She was used to living a busy, exciting and luxurious lifestyle before she met Harry. They met because they have friends in common. I believe that they both contemplated very deeply about what marriage would mean for them, and how they would navigate the challenges. Checkout their engagement interview again. Their comments were prescient, confident, and endlessly revealing. Entering this ancient family has not seemed to faze Meghan in the sense of it being at all overwhelming. Prince Charles is said to be teaching Meghan about royal family history, and about the valuable art and artifacts of the Royal Collection, because Meghan is eager to learn. The Sussexes will be choosing some of the art from the Royal Collection to adorn their new home. That's a perk extended to most members of the Queen's family.

I've said this here before, and I was criticized for it, but my take is that Harry is over the moon to have found a woman with whom he not only shares common interests, but who was born in southern California and lived a normal life. He's probably overjoyed to share everything about his life with Meghan. And her appreciation for all aspects of his heritage likely gives him a larger appreciation for all that he was born into. Meghan is highly educated, self-motivated, very accomplished, a successful entrepreneur and a glamorous actress with a penchant for giving back to those less fortunate. She's a woman beyond Harry's wildest dreams. She's his friend, his wife, and his lover. Does it get any better than that?

I think Meghan is in this for life. I think they both enjoy having their cake and eating it too. Of course, there have been a lot of ups-and-downs and jealousies within and without their sphere. But there's also generous goodwill and admiration that they have been receiving from around the world. Witness the wonderful #GlobalSussexBabyShower donations, and the record-setting Instagram followers.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/cecili...sussex-already-breaking-records/#1304658c3ad9

I hope neither Meghan nor Harry are reading the press.

They have said they don't read any of it, and I believe them. They are told some things, and they are surely aware of the growing necessity to take extra precautions in preserving and protecting their privacy. But I don't think the frenzy that is building will keep them from continuing to be grounded in all that they do. This strength I believe comes from Meghan's strong, nurturing upbringing. She has a strong sense of self, and she's a very giving person. She's also a no-nonsense, self-assured Leo. It seems to me that she and Harry were made for each other. And they won't allow outside clamor and noise to impact their private lives.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I think the key thing with the Queen’s doctors is that they would have been vetted for security and trustworthiness. You are not going to see one write a tell all book. That said, I firmly believe that Meghan should chose a doctor she is comfortable with. She is the one having the baby.

Well, yes and no. She should have whom she wants of a pool of already vetted Doctors. Her privacy is of utmost importance, and she doesn't need to be tweeted about. So I would think doctor's have already been selected.

About Doula's. I did some research. Doula's have no medical training, and are not allowed to "change outcomes" (i.e. turn a baby, deliver a baby, etc.). A Doula is a coach for the mother to help her with anxiety, suggest more comfortable positions. It is quite common to have a midwife (who had medical training) shepherd you through pregnancy and birth. (This is more a National Health standard of care).

 

[MsZem]

The Sussex baby will have two of the most remarkable and loving parents in the world, in addition to being born into a

They're people, not deities. There are many other loving parents in the world.

 

[Skittl1321]

I'm not sure what makes either Harry or Meghan remarkable, lest the most remarkable...

But I would assume they will be loving parents, and the baby well cared for. I also think we won't see much of it. In terms of the monarchy, it holds a pretty irrelevant position. Probably when it is little we will see more than, say, Lady Louise, or Princess Eugenie/Beatrice; but unless it does something to catch attention, it will slip form notice as the Cambridge kiddos take the spotlight. How many people really know the Queen's cousins?

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Yes indeed, hopefully this over interest in the Sussexes and their royal lives and their offspring will soon subside, or at least decrease. I think maybe within a few years, the royal reporters might begin to f'ing lay off all things Sussexes. The Queen (God Bless her) will not be around forever. When she passes, the attention will necessarily focus on her funeral and on the coronation of King Charles III. Then as the Cambridge children grow up, they will become more the focus hopefully, but sadly unfortunately for them. However, I think feisty and charming Princess Charlotte will give the press what for and keep them in their place, much like her Great Aunt Princess Anne. Uh, but when you say "it," don't you mean 'he or she,' or 'the Sussex baby.' It!

To say that she had "African blood" is to distort history in order to suit some particular agenda.

Just because you are an historian, doesn't make your views any more valuable or more valid than my own. It depends upon what you've been taught, what books you've read, how you were raised, what you choose to believe or disbelieve. Lots of history taught to us is full of myths and versions suited to perpetuate those myths.

The truth is that the continent of Africa is and has always been full of all kinds of people, who have varied skin colors and physical characteristics from olive-toned to light brown to velvet black skin, broad to sharp noses, straight to curly hair. It's just that very pale skin only developed when a group of Africans migrated to the cold European climate, and the melanin had to largely leave their skin in order for them to survive in that climate (they needed vitamin D from the sun). In the southern climate, ancient people needed melanin to protect them from the sun's harsher rays. DNA evidence has proven that skin color differences are miniscule in relation to human biology. But we should have already known that since there are usually a variety of skin tones in most families, including so-called white families. It's just that differences in skin tone among pale-skinned people is not as noticeable as in darker-skinned people. Plus, there are only four human blood types, which have nothing whatsoever to do with skin color, or even with the family you were born into. If you need a blood transfusion, it can only come from someone who shares your blood type, and that doesn't have to be a family member. It can be a complete stranger who shares your blood type.

And I will remind you that Northern African people are still part of the African continent. So this tendency to separate them as not being as closely associated with the people south of the Sahara is laughable. The Sahara Desert did not even exist in ancient times. But continue believing whatever you can deal with.

Sorry to have to break it to you, but the Moors were in fact, dark-skinned people. And they ruled half of Europe for centuries. All people have varying skin colors based on different undertones. Variant skin colors and physical features were influenced by geographic and environmental factors. Believe me, melanin is a good thing. So the efforts to try and distance ancient people of color and high accomplishment from having anything to do with Africa, and especially southern Africa is so obvious and laughable. BTW, humans were called all manner of different names based on the different regions they hailed from or migrated to, not necessarily based on their skin color. Even Africa itself went by different names at different times in human history. Imagine that!

And even your views about the popular opinions surrounding the brooch that Princess Michael wore to the Christmas lunch at BP in 2017, are sadly mistaken/ misbegotten:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...orld-got-racist-royal-jewelry-wrong-1.5630137

They're people, not deities. There are many other loving parents in the world.

But yeah, so big deal. Just because the Sussexes will make great and loving parents, and I acknowledge that, doesn't disparage every other loving and nurturing parent in the world. Ask yourself why you think it does?

 

[MsZem]

Just because the Sussexes will make great and loving parents, and I acknowledge that, doesn't disparage every other loving and nurturing parent in the world. Ask yourself why you think it does?

Ask yourself why you feel compelled to describe two people whom you've never met as "two of the most remarkable and loving parents in the world", as if they're in competition with other parents.

I'm sure they'll try their best as parents. This is not remarkable.

 

[aftershocks]

Ask yourself why you feel compelled to describe two people whom you've never met as "two of the most remarkable and loving parents in the world", as if they're in competition with other parents.

I'm sure they'll try their best as parents. This is not remarkable.

@Zemgirl, that's entirely your take, and your interpretation of what I said. You ask yourself first, why not!

I've never met Harry or Meghan and I probably never will. It matters not. No big deal. Although it would surely be cool to see them up close and personal. They strike me as fairly down-to-earth and genuine. Harry certainly is not puffed up about his royal status. They are both human with human failings. I certainly do not see them as deities, just because I admire their positive characteristics. Mostly, I admire their ability to put a good foot forward in their approach to living in this world. At the same time, they are imperfect humans and I think they know that too. They appear to be eager, expectant parents who are overjoyed about this pregnancy. It's well known how much Prince Harry enjoys being around children, and how eager he has been to have children of his own. That's surely part of why some royal observers are excited for the Sussexes. Again, to praise what I see in the Sussexes as future parents is not a comment on anyone else, neither a disparagement. Why should it be?

Circumstances have made Meghan and Harry famous, but they aren't resting on their wealth and status. They are eager to make the most of their blessings and to use their status to advocate for others. As well, they clearly wish to enjoy the blessings they have been given, and in Meghan's case, worked very hard to achieve. I see nothing wrong with that. They are young and still learning about life. I think they are both fairly open-minded, but also products of their upbringings in good and not-so-good ways. The key is in being open to learning, and to applying what they've learned, as well as to giving back, and making a difference. In these aspects of how the Sussexes present themselves, I find them pretty remarkable, but no one else is required to obviously. And again, my feelings and opinons about the Sussexes in particular are not a comment on or a condemnation of anyone else.

Just because I talk about Meghan and Harry in an admiring way, doesn't negate the good works and contributions of other remarkable people in the world, including other European royals whom I don't know as much about.

 

[mag]

@aftershocks There have been many people in the public eye that were thought to be loving and remarkable (Bill Cosby anyone?) who turned out, upon closer inspection, not to be. I am not equating either Harry or Meghan with Bill Cosby, I am just saying that what we see in the press may or may not have any basis in reality.

I hope Harry and Meghan are happy. I hope they are loving parents. The reality is, we will likely never know for sure.

 

[AxelAnnie]

@aftershocks There have been many people in the public eye that were thought to be loving and remarkable (Bill Cosby anyone?) who turned out, upon closer inspection, not to be. I am not equating either Harry or Meghan with Bill Cosby, I am just saying that what we see in the press may or may not have any basis in reality.

I hope Harry and Meghan are happy. I hope they are loving parents. The reality is, we will likely never know for sure.

UM........there is to my knowledge no indication that Bill Cosby was anything less than a loving parent to his children.

 

[MsZem]

Prince Hisahito of Japan started junior high school a few days ago. After the abdication at the end of the month, he will be 2nd in line to the throne.

It's a very short line.

 

[aftershocks]

@aftershocks There have been many people in the public eye that were thought to be loving and remarkable (Bill Cosby anyone?) who turned out, upon closer inspection, not to be. I am not equating either Harry or Meghan with Bill Cosby, I am just saying that what we see in the press may or may not have any basis in reality.

I hope Harry and Meghan are happy. I hope they are loving parents. The reality is, we will likely never know for sure.

Well, their baby hasn't even been born yet. But yeah, ahem, I think the Sussexes and indeed the Cambridges are in the public eye to such an extent that we can fairly judge how much both couples really care about raising, happy, normal, self-sufficient, and productive offspring. I'm not sure why you find it necessary to even bring up 'Bill Cosby' in this thread, and then claim you ain't equating him with either Harry or Meghan. Speaking of 'lacking self-awareness'! Please try not to read things into my posts that only exist in your own head. At the same time, your views can be different from mine. We are all unique in our backgrounds, experiences, and perceptions.

In regard to Mr. Cosby (since you brought him up), I always thought he was funny sometimes, and a bit preposterous and an annoying, ego-driven mug at other times. I thought he loved his family, and he probably does love his family. But nope, I didn't know much about his private dealings, except all the rumors of him cheating on his wife. I knew nothing about how good a father he was or was not. I know he pretentiously gave all of his children names that began with the letter 'E for excellent,' and he always boasted that they'd have to make their own way in life, and not depend on his money. He was a big deal with his I Spy partner-in-crime, Robert Culp, back in the good old, bad old days of espionage television series dramedies. I had no reason to dislike Mr. Cosby, nor did I think he was the best comedian, or the best actor, or the best human being. I liked watching him on television, and I kinda enjoyed a movie he made back-in-the-day with Sidney Poitier, but I never put either of these accomplished men on a pedestal.

Seriously, Mr. Cosby is not even in the ballpark of anyone that would first come to my mind as being an excellent parent, simply because of his 1980s family comedy television series, which broke new ground (mainly for television series, and for showing the masses how normal some upwardly mobile middle-class black families are). I think O.J. Simpson and Bill Cosby were both aggrandized by the white power structure. That they turned out to disappoint the white power structure is what it is. Their mistakes are their own, and have nothing to do with who other black people are, and certainly nothing to do with who other parents are.

My appreciation for the Duke and Duchess of Sussex is based on my own personal view of them from what I have read and learned about them. I'm not comparing the Sussexes with any other parents or soon-to-be parents. I try not to make judgements off the top of my head. I try to do my homework. I do not think either Harry or Meghan are perfect people. They are obviously in a position to do the best they can to be good parents. Each of them were lucky to have the nurturing care of loving parents, despite both of them also experiencing parental divorce and the angst children feel that goes along with such familial conflicts. So neither of them had perfect lives growing up, despite the educational privileges and other advantages they were lucky to have. They both survived and thrived, and learned from what they have been confronted with in their own lives.

I think it's obvious that the Sussexes are eager to become parents, and that they will do their utmost to raise their offspring to the best of their abilities. And yes, from the little I know, and from the way Harry and Meghan genuinely carry themselves, I'm expecting that they will be remarkable as parents (even if I was a bit overly effusive out of excitement for them). I think they are good people who want to do good things in the world. However, they likely aren't assuming they will be remarkable parents. They are probably experiencing all the up-and-down emotions that expectant parents go through. I'm sure becoming a parent and learning how to be a parent is a huge challenge. Surely no one knows what it's really like, until you experience it and go through the process of making mistakes, trying to learn, sticking with it earnestly when the going is rough, and being thankful for the rewards and the wonders of the good times. I'm sure there are all kinds of emotions parents go through. The best parents always put the well-being of their children first.

Ha, ha, and once again, it might be helpful if people would not purposely read into or misread my posts. But what else is new(s). Yes, I said: "The Sussex baby will have two of the most remarkable and loving parents in the world..." What do you think that means?! The key word is 'two,' which means two parents among many others who are also remarkable. But yeah, it's so important to misread my posts.

 

[aftershocks]

The Duke of Sussex partners with Oprah Winfrey on a mental health documentary series
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwEiIvzhD0J/

Nigerian writer, Chimamanda Ngozi, on The Duchess of Sussex & the Sussex romance
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv8d17YFp6G/