Ross Miner Out Of Olympic Team (OFFICIAL)

[NAOTMAA]

I think they should go for broke use Zhou in free.

Rafael certainly wouldn't like that and as Nathan's coach he probably has more power then Vincent's. Adam having the same coach as Nathan will pay off for him here

 

[Allskate]

To be honest, right now as the situation turned out, he would probably feel better if he skated only "good" and placed 4th or 5th. This must suck so bad.

I highly doubt this. He's NEVER competed a program like this. How many times has he even done a program like this in practice? For the rest of his life he'll be able to look back on this moment with pride.

As a Max Aaron fan I have to say now that I'm happy that he bombed at this nationals and was never in the running (I can't believe I ever would think this about any favorite ) because it totally spared me, and him, the heartache that would most certainly have come.

What?! You're happy that Max bombed? Do you honestly think that he's happy that he bombed? He wasn't going to win even if he had one of his best skates, and I'm sure he knew that he had almost no chance of making the Olympic team given how he's done the past couple of years. But, I'm sure he still wanted to skate well. Given the option of skating poorly and not making the team versus the option of skating well and not making the team because of past performances, I think almost any skater would choose the latter.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Zhou has Zakrajsek on his coaching team.

 

[ballettmaus]

Does anybody really believe that Ross is thinking that his performance last night was pointless because he didn't make the Olympic team?

I think that depends on his mindset going into the competition, what he expected after his silver medal and how much of a disappointment it was to him to not be named.

I enjoy Brown's Skating but I think that naming him 1st alternate over Miner might be what stings the most. That, more than the selection of the team, screams "we have no confidence in you" to me and that would nag at my confidence more than anything else.


That said, does the US have clear parameters for making the team? Not just the vague "body of work" thing but something like "you should have earned so and so many points twice during the season" or "you should have finished in such and such place in the two seasons before"?
Just asking because I think that this would make it a lot more transparent to the casual fan. I understand that they don't want to make the decision based on one performance but clear parameters would make it a lot easier to understand and explain to the broad audience and it might cause less controversy. (Of course, the media probably prefers the controversy )

 

[skatingguy]

For those asking what's the point of nationals....it still sets assignments and funding for next season.

Also determines the National Champions.

 

[skatingguy]

That's very relevant.

And now, a message from Charlie White. Replace "Twitter" with "FSU" and "tweet" with "post reply". I'm with Charlie.

Wow, Charlie White blocked me on twitter. I don't think I've ever tweeted anything at him. What did he say?

 

[Skittl1321]

Wow, Charlie White blocked me on twitter. I don't think I've ever tweeted anything at him. What did he say?

He said this:
Can we all make a concerted effort to minimize horrible skating twitter? I know hot takes are fun, but they can also be dumb and annoying. Think critically before hitting the tweet button.

In reply to this:
Sorry but i think Charlie is just lobbying for his friend here. Ashley has never been known for SS. She benefits from corridor PCS judging. Charlie also says he agrees with sending Bradie to the Olympics. If Ashley were really the female Patrick Chan maybe he'd be outraged.

 

[Bellanca]

(Of course, the media probably prefers the controversy )

Oh, of course, and USFS played right into their hands.

 

[casken]

Wow, Charlie White blocked me on twitter. I don't think I've ever tweeted anything at him. What did he say?

"Blocked by Charlie White on Twitter" needs to be a rep level or something.

 

[jlai]

For those who are mad because they think Nationals should be an Olympic trial...why not speak up back when the critieria were out at the beginning of season?
Or is it that one doesn't think it will be applied (which makes it even worse?)

 

[NAOTMAA]

For those who are mad because they think Nationals should be an Olympic trial...why not speak up back when the critieria were out at the beginning of season?
Or is it that one doesn't think it will be applied (which makes it even worse?)

people did speak out. Many people were not happy about it

and either way everybody thought the rule would be applied very strictly, only in very special cases, and not simply applied to anybody they liked who bombed.

 

[caseyedwards]

For those who are mad because they think Nationals should be an Olympic trial...why not speak up back when the critieria were out at the beginning of season?
Or is it that one doesn't think it will be applied (which makes it even worse?)

It’s was one of those things that because US men and ladies has equal levels of talent and no one really needs protection (except Chen) no one would be bumped unfairly and unacceptably!

 

[nickp]

What a tough year for the US figure skating selection committee!

 

[jlai]

people did speak out. Many people were not happy about it

and either way everybody thought the rule would be applied very strictly, only in very special cases, and not just applied to anybody they liked who bombed.

There were many in the us men's thread for many months now who thought exactly this would happen. That the team is down to the five (Rippon Jason Zhou Max Nathan) with international medals the last two years because of bow. I followed the us men thread closely and i didn't remember 20 pages of outrage.
The outrage now it seems that it actually happened?

I don't have a strong feeling about who should go but that if the outrage is about the criteria then it is six months too late

 

[NAOTMAA]

There were many in the men's thread for many months now who thought exactly this would happen. That the team is down to the five with international medals the last two years. I followed the us men thread closely and i didn't remember 20 pages of outrage.

People believed there were 5 men in contention, yes, but they never believed the USFSA would bend over backwards to get the team they had in mind before nationals started. We still believed the men had to compete and skate clean

 

[jlai]

People believed there were 5 men in contention but they never believed the USFSA would bend over backwards to get the team they had in mind before nationals started

You know this how? You read all our minds?

Anyway you can't change the game rule mid game. That is like saying you hate cop and want 6.0 mid season

 

[pinky166]

Getting left off the Olympic team is not surprising and I’m okay with, being denied 1st alternate status AND a spot at Worlds I’m mad about and think is unfair. It’s basically showing Ross was never in consideration to begin with.

From the sounds of it, the conversation was about Ross vs. Vincent, in which case I’m glad Vincent made it. Ross vs. Adam is less clear cut and I would have been okay either way. I hope Ross accepts 4CCs and does well there to end his career with a bang. Given the watered down field, if he repeats what he did at Nationals he could win!

 

[Lilia A]

I wish people stopped comparing skating and gymnastics. They're two, completely different, sports. The reason they don't go with the top 5/6/7 (it keeps changing) anymore is because they need 3 high scores on each apparatus. If you place, say, 2nd because your bar or floor gets a huge score but have another very weak exercise, then someone else needs to cover that weak spot. That someone else may be an apparatus specialist who doesn't place high enough in the all around. We're not in 1964 anymore, where everyone got similar scores in the optionals if they performed well.
Skating, otoh, is pretty much an individual sport. Yes, I know we have a team event now. But, truth be told, if you care that much about the team event just have your top lady/man/pair/dance team compete both SP/SD and FS/FD. Of course, we don't want the individual contenders to be tired. And hence, the argument that this is mostly an individual sport. The fact that both federations and skater put the potential individual medal over a team medal (potentially a better medal if the contenders compete both programs) says it all.

Congrats to the Olympians. Bummed for Ross. Like I said before, I completely understand the reason behind this even though it sucks. Second alternate though? It's obvious that USFSA had a plan to name any three of Chen, Zhou, Rippon, and Brown. They might as well do pre-nominations in December and announce a skate-off at nationals next time. That way, those who don't even have a remote chance can just focus on getting a high placement for funding purposes and international assignments.

 

[Bellanca]

I wish people stopped comparing skating and gymnastics. They're two, completely different, sports.

Thank you!

 

[Bellanca]

What a tough year for the US figure skating selection committee!

Yeah, sure...

 

[Seerek]

Zhou has Zakrajsek on his coaching team.

Speaking of which, this is the first Olympics where Tammy Gambill has Team USA representatives?

 

[ChelleC]

Given the watered down field, if he repeats what he did at Nationals he could win!

What watered down field? The current entry list shows both Boyang Jin and Shoma Uno will be at 4CC. There's no way Ross Miner would beat them.

 

[caseyedwards]

I wish people stopped comparing skating and gymnastics. They're two, completely different, sports. The reason they don't go with the top 5/6/7 (it keeps changing) anymore is because they need 3 high scores on each apparatus. If you place, say, 2nd because your bar or floor gets a huge score but have another very weak exercise, then someone else needs to cover that weak spot. That someone else may be an apparatus specialist who doesn't place high enough in the all around. We're not in 1964 anymore, where everyone got similar scores in the optionals if they performed well.
Skating, otoh, is pretty much an individual sport. Yes, I know we have a team event now. But, truth be told, if you care that much about the team event just have your top lady/man/pair/dance team compete both SP/SD and FS/FD. Of course, we don't want the individual contenders to be tired. And hence, the argument that this is mostly an individual sport. The fact that both federations and skater put the potential individual medal over a team medal (potentially a better medal if the contenders compete both programs) says it all.

Congrats to the Olympians. Bummed for Ross. Like I said before, I completely understand the reason behind this even though it sucks. Second alternate though? It's obvious that USFSA had a plan to name any three of Chen, Zhou, Rippon, and Brown. They might as well do pre-nominations in December and announce a skate-off at nationals next time. That way, those who don't even have a remote chance can just focus on getting a high placement for funding purposes and international assignments.

No one is comparing the sports just a selection process for representing the country! It’s comparing bureaucracy really!

 

[barbarafan]

He said this:
Can we all make a concerted effort to minimize horrible skating twitter? I know hot takes are fun, but they can also be dumb and annoying. Think critically before hitting the tweet button.

In reply to this:
Sorry but i think Charlie is just lobbying for his friend here. Ashley has never been known for SS. She benefits from corridor PCS judging. Charlie also says he agrees with sending Bradie to the Olympics. If Ashley were really the female Patrick Chan maybe he'd be outraged.

So who is Charlie White's friend he is talking about? I am sure he has a lot of friends (judging from his commentary)

 

[Lilia A]

No one is comparing the sports just a selection process for representing the country! It’s comparing bureaucracy really!

That's what I meant. I figured the fact that I included selection criteria for both sports in the sentences that followed the opening statements would be enough for most people to understand what I was saying...

 

[Skittl1321]

So who is Charlie White's friend he is talking about? I am sure he has a lot of friends (judging from his commentary)

This was about Ashley.

 

[bardtoob]

I highly doubt this. He's NEVER competed a program like this. How many times has he even done a program like this in practice? For the rest of his life he'll be able to look back on this moment with pride.

What a neutered load of BS.

 

[DreamSkates]

Because the criteria are fuzzy and subjective like everything in skating. If the criteria were as clear as a clock race, no one would be having this discussion.

The criteria merely list the competitions which will be considered and groups those competitions into tiers. The criteria do not specify a mathematical formula.

This decision will be heavily influenced by nebulous factors. I'm not saying that's a bad thing necessarily, just that it makes the decision complicated and much less straightforward than a clear formula.

In the Olympic team conference with Chen, Rippon and Zhou, the USFSA official mentioned they were looking at the scores earned and which were most competitive with the world - and he said, who had the possibility of winning a medal (inclduing the team medal) so, total scores were also part of the body of work. The official said that Ross just did not have the scores internationally that the men had who were chosen for the team.

 

[DreamSkates]

For those who are mad because they think Nationals should be an Olympic trial...why not speak up back when the critieria were out at the beginning of season?
Or is it that one doesn't think it will be applied (which makes it even worse?)

My opinion is that more than just Nationals should determine who goes to the Olympics. It's not just another event. It's the BIG event that trumps all other competitions. So yes, look at what skaters have accomplished internationally over the past year or 2 and don't base the decision of team members on one competition even if it is Nationals.

 

[Willin]

Personally I think they should've mentioned the average score thing when they announced the BOW criteria. Personally, I think they probably look at three things:
1. Body of Work (Competition results as announced)
2. Average scores from international judges
3. Consistency/trend of performances (Getting better, getting worse, or staying stagnant good or bad)

I think they should clearly outline this or announce it with the team. If they simply stated this beforehand or emphasized it so that news outlets showed the average scores of the three that made the team and Ross, I think people who didn't follow figure skating would understand the decision more. Or if they emphasized that Nationals were not an Olympic trials but rather another of a series of competitions the committee was considering, and that they were considering placement along with final score. Or if they said they were weighing final score or average international score more heavily than final placement. Or something like that.

I received a text from a friend of mine asking if this is how USFS is trying to create and draw more interest re the sport, by going mob w/ the men's event and making the decision in a smoke-filled back room before the comp has even taken place. I explained to him the criteria - and he laughed... Casual fans, alike, who have been told (in detail) the holy grail criteria used for deciding Olympic teams in the sport are having negative reactions. Déjà vu all over again. Good luck w/ that, USFS.

Controversies like this help figure skating. When else are skaters names trending, sparking internet debates several days long, instigating flame wars and trolls, and being discussed at length in multiple Washington Post/NYT/Fox News articles?
As they say, no publicity is bad publicity. I bet people who wouldn't otherwise be interested are now tuning into the Men's FS replay to see what happened. I'm sure others are using YouTube to check.

The only other way to get skating trending is with interesting and fun programs. Jimmy Ma was probably the most talked about guy in the mainstream - even getting a trending BuzzFeed article - and he wasn't remotely in the Olympic team discussion. H/D's hip hop short dance was also noted in more than just skating discussion. All because he skated to Turn Down for What. Jason, of course, went viral for his fun Riverdance program (and, to a lesser extent, his Hamilton program). Of course Adam's SP was well-loved in some LGBT forums that saw it. My sister said she'd watch more skating if fewer skaters used classical music. A facebook friend linked me to the Shib Sib's hip hop SD and asked me why she didn't watch Ice Dance. The nerd community loves Medvedeva for her anime-themed exhibition programs.
But, will that change anything? No. Skaters are skating to please judges and maybe themselves, not get themselves or the sport more popular. The fan demographic that cheer for them in the arenas certainly doesn't help. Last night I heard two older fans complain about Nathan's FS music for being "too modern." And although I like it, it in no way sounds exceptionally modern (well, except Rite of Spring, which ironically is the oldest piece of it).

Let's discuss Max for a moment. It appears that Max did not really have a snowball's chance in hell of making the team either if the rumor going around about Adam and Jason is correct. I've heard from a couple of saying Dick Button would have been named to the team before Max would have - unless he won Nats which makes the whole comp a bunch of insert one swirly brown emoticon here, please.

Ooohhh do tell...

What I will never understand is why USFSA would want to send Rippon or Brown over Zhou.

I cannot see the Russian fed, the Canadian fed, or the Japanese fed making that choice. They would all pounce on Zhou and want him to have every opportunity to get experience. But the federation didn't even pounce on Nathan till he got a GPF medal. Any other country Nathan would be 3 time National champ.

The big argument is that they need Zhou to get spots for Junior worlds, although with the strong performance of the US Junior men this season I don't think it was as much of a priority. The bigger argument would be his tendency to fall and have a lot of URs/downgrades on jumps and the poor international results this year compared to Rippon and Brown.

Rafael certainly wouldn't like that and as Nathan's coach he probably has more power then Vincent's. Adam having the same coach as Nathan will pay off for him here

Well, some like to think Tom Z has some magical ability to manipulate USFS selection committees. While I don't think that's true, I do think he has a lot more power than Rafael. Rafael runs his operation out of Southern California and didn't grow up in the USFS system. He's also criticized some of USFS's policies regarding training athletes in the past. On the other hand, Tom Z is a major figure at USFS HQ's closest skating club and training center (The World Arena). You would certainly expect that to allow him to get very well acquainted with and endear himself to the top USFS execs much better than most other coaches, which may give him a slight advantage as opposed to coaches working further afield.