Ross Miner Out Of Olympic Team (OFFICIAL)

[bardtoob]

Again, I understand the rationale behind this, but then what's the point for dark horses and underdogs to even try to make the team if hitting when it counts is useless? They might as well hold nationals at the end of the season when all is said and done. That way no one can ever say that giving their all at nationals led them to nowhere (or to 4CC).
Unpopular opinion, perhaps, but it's almost 5:30am and if I don't put it out here I'll never sleep. Have a good day/night everyone.

I love it!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Well, I suppose I understand their reasons for leaving Miner off the team, but I'll say it anyway: it sucks. TBH, neither Miner nor Rippon nor Zhou are legitimate contenders to win an individual medal, and when it comes to the Olympics medals are what count. 4th place = no medal, 8th place = no medal, 24th place = no medal. To the skater it matters, to USOC it doesn't because they can't add your top ten finish to the medal count.
Worlds, otoh, is a different story. I'd completely agree if we were talking about worlds.

Again, I understand the rationale behind this, but then what's the point for dark horses and underdogs to even try to make the team if hitting when it counts is useless? They might as well hold nationals at the end of the season when all is said and done. That way no one can ever say that giving their all at nationals led them to nowhere (or to 4CC).
Unpopular opinion, perhaps, but it's almost 5:30am and if I don't put it out here I'll never sleep. Have a good day/night everyone.

Agree on all points.

This is like the Japanese Federation leaving potentially the best ladies skater in the world, Wakaba Higuchi, off the Olympic Team, because of a poor showing at Nationals. She out-skated all of the Japanese ladies' on the Challenger Series, and made the Grand Prix Final, too.

The kicker is, she is being sent to worlds to help Japan earn three spots for 2019 in Saitama. Most likely, to hold the gate open for Honda and Kihara (when she is age - eligible).

 

[asdf334]

I agree on this ^^^
Nationals placements should still count for something and it does not mean that the skater cannot perform well at the next major event..

And it doesn't mean that they can either... disregarding how USFSA is using it, that is one of the reasons for needing to look at a skater's BOW. If somebody like Medvedeva bombs once, you don't just automatically pass them over for somebody that had a good day.

 

[bardtoob]

Build for the future by giving Vincent two international assignments, 4CC and Worlds, and let Ross and Adam have the Olympics ... If they want to use that excuse at all.

 

[caseyedwards]

And it doesn't mean that they can either... disregarding how USFSA is using it, that is one of the reasons for needing to look at a skater's BOW. If somebody like Medvedeva bombs once, you don't just automatically pass them over for somebody that had a good day.

Of course not Medvedeva! Rippon is not a Medvedeva! He’s a Quadless journeyman

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

By choosing skaters who haven't met their potential on the day, this kind of selection process really impacts how casual viewers see the sport.

It reminds me of the early 1970s, when Trixi Schuba won competitions with average free skating, over the likes of Janet Lynn.

 

[floskate]

Zhou I get - he does have an arsenal of quads and theoretically has the technical goods to be able to contribute in a very positive way to the team event in the SP. Plus it's what the sport is now. Might as well show up with the original prototype and a back up right?

Now Adam & Ross - both usually quadless but Ross here showed that he actually is capable of a clean quad jump. Adam's 'quad' lutz has been nowhere near since forever. Yet Adam of course has a better international reputation, prettier skating and a bigger mouth and so he's better press. But realistically neither would be used in the team event and just get to have a no pressure, once in a lifetime experience of skating at an Olympic Games. Ross skated like his life depended on getting that experience. Adam skated as if to defend something he hadn't even got yet.

If this is what the USFSA has done then it does diminish the importance and stature of the National Championships somewhat. JMHO of course

And can someone buy Mark Mitchell a really long stiff drink tomorrow? That is gonna hurt so much. {{{{{Mark/Peter/Ross}}}}}

 

[aftershocks]

Again, I understand the rationale behind this, but then what's the point for dark horses and underdogs to even try to make the team if hitting when it counts is useless? They might as well hold nationals at the end of the season when all is said and done. That way no one can ever say that giving their all at nationals led them to nowhere (or to 4CC).

Exactly. This dicey selection process is fairly new as being written in stone. I suppose they may as well have massaged the scores for the result they actually wanted. But I suspect they were rewarding Ross in the scoring for his career and his fine effort, and then it was likely expected that Adam and Jason would come out like they normally do and skate great and place ahead of Ross, which obviously didn't happen. There's no accounting for what can happen to any human being under pressure in the heat of a do-or-die moment. Of course nobody is dying, but the pain just might feel like it. I wonder how Ross' coaches, Mark and Peter, will feel about this. Will they be philosophical and good soldiers? Mark missed out on the opportunity to go to the Olympics too in his competitive career after skating great at Nationals.

I had such a big smile on my face watching Ross, Mark and Peter react with such emotion when Ross came off the ice, and while they were sitting in the kiss 'n cry (especially with it being Ross' final season). And now I'm sad for them. I'm sad for Adam too. I feel for Jason also, but at least he's been to an Olympics before. I think Vincent is unexpectedly ahead of schedule for this Olympics cycle, and he most likely will have more opportunities. I guess for perspective is to think about what Joshua Farris is facing, and to pray for his healing.

 

[bardtoob]

And can someone buy Mark Mitchell a really long stiff drink tomorrow? That is gonna hurt so much. {{{{{Mark/Peter/Ross}}}}}

 

[worldsnice12]

And it doesn't mean that they can either... disregarding how USFSA is using it, that is one of the reasons for needing to look at a skater's BOW. If somebody like Medvedeva bombs once, you don't just automatically pass them over for somebody that had a good day.

True for alredy very consistent skaters but there will always be exceptions. Karen Chen for example. She had not shown much on the GP circuit (and still dont..) but she raised at the occasion at Worlds (and this despite a poor showing at 4CC prior). Some skaters seems to be widely inconsistent but something about World/Olympic level competion brings the best out of them. I dont say that it "would" be the case for Minor but if not selected, we will obviously never know and all those training hours did not pay off.
What message will that send to all inconsistent skaters that surely have the talent but not the a steal competitive mindset à la Medvedeva..

 

[misskarne]

Zhou I get - he does have an arsenal of quads and theoretically has the technical goods to be able to contribute in a very positive way to the team event in the SP.

See, I just can't with this argument. Not when some people have been trying to claim that Jason doesn't "have" the triple Axel because he sometimes URs it. Vincent doesn't just sometimes UR the quads, he's perpetually URing quads. Literally one quad today was called around and that had an iffy landing. The other four were all < or <<. He is not in the same jump league as Chen at all. And it's not like today was an unusual outlier - he's been having rotation issues all season. Maybe the message from the USFS should be "go clean up your landings and then we'll talk."

 

[caseyedwards]

Exactly. This dicey selection process is fairly new as being written in stone. I suppose they may as well have massaged the scores for the result they actually wanted. But I suspect they were rewarding Ross in the scoring for his career and his fine effort, and then it was likely expected that Adam and Jason would come out like they normally do and skate great and place ahead of Ross, which obviously didn't happen. There's no accounting for what can happen to any human being under pressure in the heat of a do-or-die moment. Of course nobody is dying, but the pain just might feel like it. I wonder how Ross' coaches, Mark and Peter, will feel about this. Will they be philosophical and good soldiers? Mark missed out on the opportunity to go to the Olympics too in his competitive career after skating great at Nationals.

I had such a big smile on my face watching Ross, Mark and Peter react with such emotion when Ross came off the ice, and while they were sitting in the kiss 'n cry (especially with it being Ross' final season). And now I'm sad for them. I'm sad for Adam too. I think Vincent is unexpectedly ahead of schedule for this Olympics cycle, and he most likely will have more opportunities. I guess for perspective is to think about what Joshua Farris is facing, and to pray for his healing.

Todd Eldridge wasn’t there. Mitchell didn’t beat him and they all knew the situation! This is a thorough beating of a frontrunner! Rippon isn’t even equal with the best like eldredge was potentially. Ripppon just a throwback quadless journeyman!

 

[bardtoob]

This should be simple.

Nathan and Ross skated good and where 1st and 2nd at the top criteria competition. They should go. They are safe.

Adam and Vincent skated ugly and were 3rd and 4th. Let's not send one of them since US Nationals is the top criteria. Use the body of work to differentiate these two.

 

[aftershocks]

Adam and Vincent skated ugly and were 3rd and 4th. Let's not send one of them since US Nationals is the top criteria.

Right, and like some feds do, they could send Adam and Vincent to 4CCs to duke it out. That would be one way of somehow preserving the importance of Nationals placements to some degree.

Yes, they could use the body of work for Vincent vs Adam, but they must want Vincent with his URs and his relatively low PCS potential internationally.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Todd Eldridge wasn’t there. Mitchell didn’t beat him and they all knew the situation! This is a thorough beating of a frontrunner! Rippon isn’t even equal with the best like eldredge was potentially. Ripppon just a throwback quadless journeyman!

Actually, Todd was at early practices in Orlando. But he wasn't attempting the triple axel and it was clear he was in great pain.

Christopher Bowman won, but did not include a triple axel in either program.
Mark Mitchell's only real bobble was a bad landing on the back of a triple flip/triple toe loop.

To be honest, Mitchell should have won with Bowman second, and Paul Wylie third or fourth.

The programs are on YouTube.

 

[floskate]

See, I just can't with this argument. Not when some people have been trying to claim that Jason doesn't "have" the triple Axel because he sometimes URs it. Vincent doesn't just sometimes UR the quads, he's perpetually URing quads. Literally one quad today was called around and that had an iffy landing. The other four were all < or <<. He is not in the same jump league as Chen at all. And it's not like today was an unusual outlier - he's been having rotation issues all season. Maybe the message from the USFS should be "go clean up your landings and then we'll talk."

Well I usually can't with your rants but here goes. Your season long bitching about Zhou makes your opinions somewhat less than credible dear. This isn't about Jason!! It's about earning your ticket. And when you combine BOW and the competition itself then Zhou did exactly that whether you like it or not! What Vincent ever did to your puppies I can't imagine

 

[Lanie]

Right, and like some feds do, they could send Adam and Vincent to 4CCs to duke it out.

I wish they would but I doubt it. It seems like a rational decision, though, if you ask me. Thus USFS is like nahhhh

 

[caseyedwards]

Actually, Todd was at early practices in Orlando. But he wasn't attempting the triple axel and it was clear he was in great pain.

Christopher Bowman won, but did not include a triple axel in either program.
Mark Mitchell's only real bobble was a bad landing on the back of a triple flip/triple toe loop.

To be honest, Mitchell should have won with Bowman second, and Paul Wylie third or fourth.

The programs are on YouTube.

So Eldredge injured would have been doing the same jumps as the winner if he actually competed and not withdrew before the sp! So then what’s the problem? And all the articles say “eldredge withdraws- still likely for Olympics” so they all knew third wasn’t going to mean Olympics!!

 

[tony]

Small update: Rippon camp has definitely been told he’s on the team.

 

[caseyedwards]

Small update: Rippon camp has definitely been told he’s on the team.

That’s disgusting. Horrible quadless journeyman

 

[aftershocks]

I wish they would but I doubt it. It seems like a rational decision, though, if you ask me. Thus USFS is like nahhhh

Right. I think settling it this way gives both Vincent and Adam another chance at 4CCs to show how they might fare under pressure since at Nationals both made mistakes (Vincent made mistakes in both programs), whereas Ross skated both programs clean at Nationals (no one else did btw, not even Nathan).

 

[Lanie]

It really is but not surprising at all from USFS.

I am so sad for Ross and honestly kind of angry. I've never been angry much about skating before.

 

[russell30]

I have a feeling the other will be Jason Brown (matching criteria) along with Chen. Zhou has youth on his side and sure he will be there in 2022!. BUT Zhou should be named to World Team...Miner will get 4CC for sure

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Small update: Rippon camp has definitely been told he’s on the team.

Skating's credibility as a real sport is gone for good.

 

[misskarne]

4CC is out as a skate-off option guys. It ends on January 28 in Taipei. The Olympics start on February 9. There's just no way.

 

[aftershocks]

I wonder what was said to Ross? 'We're giving you Worlds and 4CCs as a consolation prize. Good luck.' Anyway, Ross is a great person, and a wonderful skater to watch. They should still send him to the Olympics so he can attend as an alternate and be able to soak up some of the experience.

 

[bardtoob]

Small update: Rippon camp has definitely been told he’s on the team.

Has Zhou team?

 

[russell30]

Well this is a problem now with most nations, it is not based on Nationals only (and skaters know that!)

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I wonder what was said to Ross? 'We're giving you Worlds and 4CCs as a consolation prize. Good luck.' Anyway, Ross is a great person, and a wonderful skater to watch. They should still send him to the Olympics so he can attend as an alternate and be able to soak up some of the experience.

That's like being invited to a party but told to stand outside and watch through the window.

 

[Seerek]

It's interesting, many of the other countries now utilize Season Best/World Standing/GP or ISU Challenger Total Score criteria for their qualifications.

Compare this to Russia, who went w/top 3 men for Euros, with the 4th place finisher having made Grand Prix Final and effectively out of the Olympic race.

ETA: in time based sports, countries often don't use their berths for Olympics if the athletes don't make at least a "B" qualifying time at the Trials, even if they are top 2/3 at Olympic Trials.