Repercussions of Papadakis' book & Cizeron's response

[MacMadame]

An Estonian team skating official, from what I remember.

Ah, I knew it was skating official.

 

[overedge]

The reliance on volunteers by most skating federations is a huge issue that really needs more attention.

I recognize that many skating clubs, and regional skating associations, don't have the resources to have paid staff. On the other hand, volunteers are busy administering their club or organization. They may not have the time or the capacity to get the training they should probably have re safe sport, protecting athletes, etc. IME they often even don't get training in other functions like HR (legislation, best practices, etc), which is important for clubs that are employing coaches, as employees or contractors.

I don't know the answer to this problem. But it's a potentially very dangerous situation for athletes, when responsibility for these important areas at the club level is largely assigned to unpaid, overworked, and possibly untrained volunteers.

 

[Sylvia]

Relevant excerpt from @uandmfan's gifted Globe and Mail article (1/22/26) link:

Seven years into retirement, Virtue and Moir still share an Olympic bond

Superstar figure skating duo cherish their 2018 gold medals and the way they captivated a global audience

www.theglobeandmail.com

Robyn Doolittle: I want to ask you guys about Gabriella Papadakis’s book, Pour ne pas disparaître (So as Not to Disappear).

She was critical of her former partner, Guillaume Cizeron – whom she won the Beijing 2022 Olympics Games with – calling him controlling and demanding, which he denies. NBC recently removed her from a commentator role at the Milan Olympics after concerns about her ability to be neutral, as Cizeron will be competing with his new partner, Laurence Fournier Beaudry. Gabriella also said in the book that in 2018 she was rooting for you two to make a mistake while competing against you. What was your reaction?

Scott Moir: I haven’t seen all of the quotes myself, but I think that’s her going back into her mind in 2018 as a young athlete. I don’t think that’s the way they finished their career. It feels like the book is a very honest exploration of her feelings in many ways. I can say, as someone who watched a lot of Gabby-Guillaume tape, there must be some leftover emotional resentment just from that breaking up. I can’t imagine ever skating with somebody else, and so to see Guillaume skating with someone else, I’m sure that it’s very difficult. People don’t really understand how intense that relationship is.

Tessa Virtue: It makes me think about the perils of competition and pressure and stress and the vulnerability that comes with putting your art form out there. There’s so much to it when you’re in competition. I don’t believe you’d find an athlete out there that didn’t have similar thoughts now and then.

 

[Bigbird]

Relevant excerpt from @uandmfan's gifted Globe and Mail article (1/22/26) link:

Seven years into retirement, Virtue and Moir still share an Olympic bond

Superstar figure skating duo cherish their 2018 gold medals and the way they captivated a global audience

www.theglobeandmail.com

Robyn Doolittle: I want to ask you guys about Gabriella Papadakis’s book, Pour ne pas disparaître (So as Not to Disappear).

She was critical of her former partner, Guillaume Cizeron – whom she won the Beijing 2022 Olympics Games with – calling him controlling and demanding, which he denies. NBC recently removed her from a commentator role at the Milan Olympics after concerns about her ability to be neutral, as Cizeron will be competing with his new partner, Laurence Fournier Beaudry. Gabriella also said in the book that in 2018 she was rooting for you two to make a mistake while competing against you. What was your reaction?

Scott Moir: I haven’t seen all of the quotes myself, but I think that’s her going back into her mind in 2018 as a young athlete. I don’t think that’s the way they finished their career. It feels like the book is a very honest exploration of her feelings in many ways. I can say, as someone who watched a lot of Gabby-Guillaume tape, there must be some leftover emotional resentment just from that breaking up. I can’t imagine ever skating with somebody else, and so to see Guillaume skating with someone else, I’m sure that it’s very difficult. People don’t really understand how intense that relationship is.

Tessa Virtue: It makes me think about the perils of competition and pressure and stress and the vulnerability that comes with putting your art form out there. There’s so much to it when you’re in competition. I don’t believe you’d find an athlete out there that didn’t have similar thoughts now and then.

Class acts. That is why they will always be the GOATS. They hit the nail on the head, the lack of sensitivity coming from both the IAM camp as well as Guillame Cizeron. Thank you very, very much! If there were any real empathy from that camp there would have been silence when it mattered and advocacy for those who needed it. Do we really believe this was some random, fortuitous pairing of FB/C? LOL.

 

[kedrin]

I skate with and am an officer for my local speedskating club. It is affiliated with US Speedskating, which meant that I had to join US Speedskating and complete the safe sport training in order to skate with my club. The problem with relying on volunteers isn't so much finding the time it takes to complete the training, but rather that it is hard to enforce the requirement for people who are not employees. Also, if the subject of a complaint is also a volunteer, an organization may hesitate to sanction someone they rely on to get things done.

 

[Andrea82]

An Estonian team skating official, from what I remember.

yes, the reports indicated she told the Estonian judge present at Golden Spin. The judge told her she would inform the Federation.
When Mazingue went to the press, the Estonian Fed was contacted and was reported saying "The Estonian ice sports federation explains today that not having been contacted directly by Solène, but “by a third person, it “does not have a complete vision of the affair and has not contacted other sports organizations without her authorization.”

 

[gkelly]

Definitely the fact that skating training is so decentralized makes it hard for there to be oversight of what happens between skaters and coaches, or between coaches.

There are bodies that can offer training and accept complaints, but they can't have eyes and ears in all rinks at all times, let alone during travel to competitions etc.

The reliance on volunteers by most skating federations is a huge issue that really needs more attention.

Who do you think could take responsibility if they were in a paid position?

I recognize that many skating clubs, and regional skating associations, don't have the resources to have paid staff. On the other hand, volunteers are busy administering their club or organization. They may not have the time or the capacity to get the training they should probably have re safe sport, protecting athletes, etc. IME they often even don't get training in other functions like HR (legislation, best practices, etc), which is important for clubs that are employing coaches, as employees or contractors.

In my experience (in the US), it is very rare for skating clubs to have paid staff. The exceptions would largely be the handful of clubs that own their own rinks, and possibly clubs that hire coaches directly rather than just authorizing coaches to coach on club-administered ice.

And some clubs don't offer club sessions at all -- the training takes place on ice time administered by the rinks.

Club officials may or may not frequently attend skating sessions at their rinks. If they are parents of active skaters, especially younger ones, or if they are active adult skaters themselves, then probably yes, but not all sessions that club members skate on each week. If their current connection to skating is otherwise, they might not set foot in the rink on a regular basis.

The coaches might be rink employees or they might be independent contractors. (Or both, depending when they're coaching private vs. group lessons.) And rink management tends not to know much about figure skating, beyond any grou lessons they might organize. They just rent out the ice, to individual skaters or to clubs or teams.

Clubs are responsible for what happens on ice time that they control -- club-contracted practice sessions (which may be few or nonexistent), test sessions, competitions, special events they choose to host. They can be asked to step in if club members have complaints about other members, etc. But they can't police what happens at all rinks on a daily basis. It's much too decentralized. Much less what happens away from the rink.

The national federation can do the same, especially for issues involving more than one club. And for international issues, the ISU could have authority for issues between members of different federations.

These are also volunteer organizations, but they do have paid staff. What could increasing the number paid staff responsible for athlete safety involve that would actually be effective?

I don't know the answer to this problem. But it's a potentially very dangerous situation for athletes, when responsibility for these important areas at the club level is largely assigned to unpaid, overworked, and possibly untrained volunteers.

Again -- what would be the alternative?

I skate with and am an officer for my local speedskating club. It is affiliated with US Speedskating, which meant that I had to join US Speedskating and complete the safe sport training in order to skate with my club. The problem with relying on volunteers isn't so much finding the time it takes to complete the training, but rather that it is hard to enforce the requirement for people who are not employees. Also, if the subject of a complaint is also a volunteer, an organization may hesitate to sanction someone they rely on to get things done.

That too.

 

[overedge]

@gkelly I said I don't have solutions to these problems. But relying on volunteers, who may or may not be adequately trained, to be responsible for these issues is a very risky strategy for the organization or federation. And that doesn't even touch on the inherent exploitation of an organizational model that relies so heavily on unpaid labour.

 

[MacMadame]

Who do you think could take responsibility if they were in a paid position?

IME, the issue is that it's easier to require paid staff to do things like training and following policy and procedures. In my youth events, I require all crew to do the training or they don't work. They get paid to take the course as well. I can't do that with the volunteers but I can strongly encourage them and also not assign them to areas that require the training if they don't take it. But that's all I can do.

But the people who need the training the most are the coaches. They are the ones at the rink day in and day out and have relationships with the skaters. And there should be paid staff at the national level to take complaints and walk the complainant through the process. (Like an omnibudsman.) This isn't something that should be happening at the club level at all IMO. Both because many times club members are part of the problem(s) being complained about and because they are often too close to the people involved. But also because there are too many clubs to be able to control the quality of the response.

Something some might not realize is that before Governing Council every year, there are workshops on all aspects of running a club. So in the US, there is an opportunity to learn what is needed to run a club properly.

 

[Tinycities]

Wrong thread

 

[Sylvia]

@Tinycities I think what you had posted is on topic for this thread - Canadian Press article by Daniel Rainbird (Jan. 25): https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/...sault-allegation-netflix-docuseries-9.7060139

 

[Tinycities]

@Tinycities I think what you had posted is on topic for this thread: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/...sault-allegation-netflix-docuseries-9.7060139

I was going to post in dance hall but then got distracted so thank you

 

[Debbie S]

I can understand Laurence feeling that the rug was pulled out from under her. I'm sure it was traumatic to discover her boyfriend of 10+ years raped someone plus having her skating career ended. But to double down and direct her anger at the assault victim and suggest she (Laurence) and Nik are the true victims in the situation is inexcusable. Nik is the one at fault here. And while Laurence can do whatever she wants in private, making these statements publicly and playing the sympathy card doesn't say much for her judgment. Or basic humanity.

 

[Marta24]

I read Gabriella's book. Parts were really hard to go through. She had to go through so much physical and emotional pain. I hope she is truly doing better and on a good path to heal. She describes her journey from her first steps on ice until her retirement. She also describes how she approached some of their best skates and it was interesting to rewatch for example the 2016 World FD with her words in my mind.

The way she described the dynamics at IAM made me shudder. It seems like they do not allow any criticism of the system they have set up, as if they are beyond reproach. I think this may also explain the way FBC have approached the Sorensen allegations. As if it is not possible for him to be guilty, because he is one of them and they are the good ones.

 

[overedge]

I can understand Laurence feeling that the rug was pulled out from under her. I'm sure it was traumatic to discover her boyfriend of 10+ years raped someone plus having her skating career ended. But to double down and direct her anger at the assault victim and suggest she (Laurence) and Nik are the true victims in the situation is inexcusable. Nik is the one at fault here. And while Laurence can do whatever she wants in private, making these statements publicly and playing the sympathy card doesn't say much for her judgment. Or basic humanity.

Even a generic "the case is still going on so I'd rather not comment" statement would be better than this. Not great TV, but more appropriate.

 

[Vagabond]

This thread and items posted in other threads prompted me to look at the Ice Academy of Montreal's website, where I found their Charter of Values.

The Three I.AM Principles:
SNIP
3. I.AM Safe
We create a safe environment for athletes to train, coaches to teach and staff to work.
I.AM does not tolerate and takes action against any kind of bullying, hazing and physical or psychological abuse by any member of the community, contractor or supplier.
I.AM Code of Conduct:

• Athletes, coaches and staff must uphold the values of The Three I.AM Principles.
• I.AM Athletes, coaches and staff shall take action against any form of discrimination and violence.
• Athletes, coaches and staff who witness any form of discrimination, violence or physical or psychological abuse must report every incidence to I.AM Ombudsman (Charles McKee, [email protected]) or the Managing Director of the Ice Academy of Montreal ([email protected])
• I.AM encourages any one member of the community who experiences any form of discrimination, violence or physical or psychological abuse to report such incidents to the I.AM Ombudsman or the Managing Director of the Ice Academy of Montreal.
• All reports will be evaluated, and findings actioned in accordance with the laws of Canada.

SMH.

 

[Spikefan]

“Everything that I've lived for the past year and a half has been a roller-coaster."

Imagine how the survivor has felt these past 10 years. She and Guillaume are perfect for each other, all about themselves. This Netflix series will clearly have me .

 

[TanithandBenFan]

“Everything that I've lived for the past year and a half has been a roller-coaster."

Imagine how the survivor has felt these past 10 years. She and Guillaume are perfect for each other, all about themselves. This Netflix series will clearly have me .

I hope each episode is dedicated to one couple so I can watch C/B and G/P in peace. I don’t think my blood pressure can handle the human trash episode.

 

[Katha]

I'll consider if I can stomach to watch this, knowing what is going on with ice dancing in general. Tbh I also don't have any illusions that Chock/Bates or Gilles/Poirier are in any way more wholesome, they've just managed to keep things more quiet. Chock/Bates continue in the IAM system and still seem friends with Sörensen, so blah to that all as well.

The very, very sad reality is that this has been going on forever, similar stories and frankly even worse have always emerged from the dominant training centers in particular. As Canton was imploding, Linichuk's reign of terror ending etc. We have video of Chris Dean creating an uncomfortable blueprint of berating Jayne on camera for a documentary, which now echoes in what we've seen of Alex Shibutani. And if he was doing that while they were being filmed by a doc team, imagine what happened behind closed doors. The story of Grishuk throwing a skate at Platov was never "funny". The general rumours around abuse not only in the Russian camp for decades aren't either.

Which is why I wipe in and out of watching in the last years. I love it, I come back to it and adore the sport. But frankly I don't believe anyone's smiley performance. That thing has always been rotten, as skating culture as a whole is rotten and I don't kid myself anymore that there are "good ones". I don't know these people, and they have a vested interest to present a fluffy fairytale to win their medals.