Repercussions of Papadakis' book & Cizeron's response

[angi]

This poster gives quite a lengthy summary of the book and Guillaume's response.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmB8C9yNpx0

After what happened with a similar YouTube translation of Gabi's 2022 documentry I'm very wary to trust something similar. A lot of the excerpts that I saw people share so far either lacked some context or were "embellished" to an extent, and I feel like it's a disservice to Gabi's work (to be fair, I have no idea if the creator of this YouTube is giving an accurate description or not).

 

[cholla]

After what happened with a similar YouTube translation of Gabi's 2022 documentry I'm very wary to trust something similar. A lot of the excerpts that I saw people share so far either lacked some context or were "embellished" to an extent, and I feel like it's a disservice to Gabi's work (to be fair, I have no idea if the creator of this YouTube is giving an accurate description or not).

Some things are accurate in this UT doc., some are not. Lots of extrapolation. In the subtiles, her first name is not even spelled correctly.

 

[angi]

Some things are accurate in this UT doc., some are not. Lots of extrapolation. In the subtiles, her first name is not even spelled correctly.

That's exactly what I was worried about. People just refuse to learn and actually listen to Gabi, and the worst part is that they believe they are advocating for her.

 

[SnowQueen11]

I don’t understand why people are surprised Gabi did not feel supported at IAM. Especially as a victim of sexual assault. Her book is about so many different things …. Not just a “smear campaign” against her old partner/coaches.

Solene Mazingue said that she confided in IAM coach Marie-France Dubreuil about her sexual assault, and was told that Dubreuil would report the incident to SafeSport and to relevant national federation leaders. However, according to reports, the U.S. Center for SafeSport had no record of a report from IAM until Mazingue filed her own complaint in September 2024.

This led Mazingue to accuse her coaches of not taking her claims seriously and failing to follow through on reporting to the independent safeguarding authority.

We know IAM strongly supports Nikolaj Sorensen, who was banned for rape, and got off on a jurisdictional technicality. However, that decision is now in an appeal process and it very well could be reversed.

Is it wrong to question the environment and morals at IAM? They definitely are developing a track record of supporting silence and protecting abusers.

These are 3 incidents that we know about …. How many incidents have been swept under the rug? It’s alarming.

That's exactly what I was worried about. People just refuse to learn and actually listen to Gabi, and the worst part is that they believe they are advocating for her.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

When exactly was she fired by NBC? Because she did just commentate what the US nationals? Although I guess there was no conflict of interest there.

Is she permanently fired and banned?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Solene Mazingue said that she confided in IAM coach Marie-France Dubreuil about her sexual assault, and was told that Dubreuil would report the incident to SafeSport

I’m trying to stay on top of the info and I may have missed things here and there, but why did she not go to the police instead of safesport? Was too much time had passed or?

 

[Sylvia]

I’m trying to stay on top of the info and I may have missed things here and there, but why did she not go to the police instead of safesport? Was too much time had passed or?

Mazingue publicly revealed in November 2024 that the alleged incident took place at the December 2023 CS Golden Spin of Zagreb.

ETA:

Is she permanently fired and banned?

I don't think "banned" is a good word choice in this context.

 

[Debbie S]

When exactly was she fired by NBC? Because she did just commentate what the US nationals? Although I guess there was no conflict of interest there.

It seems that Gabby was told she would not be part of the Oly coverage last week, after Guillaume's cease and desist letter was sent to NBC.

Is she permanently fired and banned?

No idea. Beyond the Olys, nothing has been said.

I’m trying to stay on top of the info and I may have missed things here and there, but why did she not go to the police instead of safesport? Was too much time had passed or?

Solene's assault occurred in Croatia, during Golden Spin. I'm not FSU Legal, but I believe U.S. police (Desyatov was based in CO Springs) do not have any jurisdiction.

 

[Karen-W]

I’m trying to stay on top of the info and I may have missed things here and there, but why did she not go to the police instead of safesport? Was too much time had passed or?

Because the assault happened at Golden Spin 2023 in Zagreb, Croatia and while she had him admitting in text messages after the fact what he did, it would have been very difficult to press charges through the local authorities.

 

[angi]

Solene Mazingue said that she confided in IAM coach Marie-France Dubreuil about her sexual assault, and was told that Dubreuil would report the incident to SafeSport and to relevant national federation leaders. However, according to reports, the U.S. Center for SafeSport had no record of a report from IAM until Mazingue filed her own complaint in September 2024.

The one thing I never understood is how there were no sanctions against the coaches given they are mandatory reporters. The same is rumored to have happened with MIDA and Jeffery Chen, and it's surprising to me that no one was sanctioned in both cases.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

The one thing I never understood is how there were no sanctions against the coaches given they are mandatory reporters. The same is rumored to have happened with MIDA and Jeffery Chen, and it's surprising to me that no one was sanctioned in both cases.

I've often wondered if the various coaches have never been sanctioned is because no one has ever made an official complaint against one.

 

[cholla]

I've often wondered if the various coaches have never been sanctioned is because no one has ever made an official complaint against one.

When a skater goes to Safesport or OSIC or any other protection service and says that s/he first reported abuse to a coach, and those services have not heard a word from said coach, how come they are not sanctioned? It's a clear failure to their professional obligations. The skater should not have to report this failure. SafeSport and co are in the right place to know about this failure, as they hear of the abuse from the skater and not from the person, mandated to do so, that the skater contacted first.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

When a skater goes to Safesport or OSIC or any other protection service and says that s/he first reported abuse to a coach, and those services have not heard a word from said coach, how come they are not sanctioned? It's a clear failure to their professional obligations. The skater should not have to report this failure. SafeSport and co are in the right place to know about this failure, as they hear of the abuse from the skater and not from the person, mandated to do so, that the skater contacted first.

Right, so apparently sanctioning coaches who stand by and do nothing is something that Safesport and OSIC are afraid to tackle. How can there be culture change if the people who help perpetuate it are never called to account?

 

[Allskate]

I don’t understand why people are surprised Gabi did not feel supported at IAM. Especially as a victim of sexual assault. Her book is about so many different things …. Not just a “smear campaign” against her old partner/coaches.

Adam, Ashley, and Sarah tried to make this point on their latest podcast. Ashley, having publicly discussed a sexual assault, pointed out how important it is to hear from Gabi herself and not just a dialog about what she said. Adam made a plea for an English translation, especially because the book is about so much more than Cizeron but the reports relating to her book are primarily about him. They all have personal relationships with Gabi (and with NBC) and voiced their support for her sharing her story. No mention of NBC dropping her from the commentary.

 

[Sylvia]

Adam, Ashley, and Sarah tried to make this point on their latest podcast. [...] They all have personal relationships with Gabi (and with NBC) and voiced their support for her sharing her story. No mention of NBC dropping her from the commentary.

Timestamped link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjUv4L-_mu0&t=2759s

All 3 are employed by NBC Sports for the Olympics (Sarah is a producer and Ashley will be an analyst for "Gold Zone" in Stamford, CT and Adam will be in Milan as a reporter).

 

[overedge]

Right, so apparently sanctioning coaches who stand by and do nothing is something that Safesport and OSIC are afraid to tackle. How can there be culture change if the people who help perpetuate it are never called to account?

"They might lose their jobs and never work again", "the skater could be lying", "all the other students would be left without a coach", "but this year is [big competition]", etc. etc. etc.

If a teacher or a daycare worker knew there was abuse going on and didn't report it, or was an abuser themselves, they would likely be suspended until the investigation is complete, to keep the other students or clients safe. Sports organizations should be doing the same IMO.

 

[Aussie Willy]

"They might lose their jobs and never work again", "the skater could be lying", "all the other students would be left without a coach", "but this year is [big competition]", etc. etc. etc.

If a teacher or a daycare worker knew there was abuse going on and didn't report it, or was an abuser themselves, they would likely be suspended until the investigation is complete, to keep the other students or clients safe. Sports organizations should be doing the same IMO.

I think we have had this discussion before in one of the other threads. A big part of the problem is that sports organisations are run by volunteers who may not even know what is going on at a rink and often do not even get training on what to do if they come across it. Unless someone contacts their integrity officers (if they have them) then no-one is aware. Then there are issues of privacy with both the victim and perpetrator so the general community is unaware.

Here in Australia the Australian Sports Commission (based on the US Gymnastics case) are now really being much more thorough about the requirements of those involved. Before our Nationals last year I had to do a number of modules in my role as a judge such as Safeguarding Children, Gambling and Drugs. It was definitely a worthwhile exercise. And they are telling everyone who is on the various committees at least need to do the Safeguarding Children module.

Not sure what other countries do but that is where we are at.

 

[Orm Irian]

The one thing I never understood is how there were no sanctions against the coaches given they are mandatory reporters. The same is rumored to have happened with MIDA and Jeffery Chen, and it's surprising to me that no one was sanctioned in both cases.

Mandatory reporting obligations, as such, usually only apply to minors and to adults in vulnerable situations, such as elders, adults with severe intellectual or communication disabilities and similar. IIRC, Solene Mazingue was an adult at the time; you could certainly make the legal case that her injuries rendered her vulnerable to assault - and she's stated outright that she thinks her attacker targeted her because of that vulnerability - but legally, mandatory reporting obligations didn't apply.

Straightforward duty of care obligations from coach to skater, on the other hand, very much did.

 

[angi]

Mandatory reporting obligations, as such, usually only apply to minors and to adults in vulnerable situations, such as elders, adults with severe intellectual or communication disabilities and similar. IIRC, Solene Mazingue was an adult at the time; you could certainly make the legal case that her injuries rendered her vulnerable to assault - and she's stated outright that she thinks her attacker targeted her because of that vulnerability - but legally, mandatory reporting obligations didn't apply.

Straightforward duty of care obligations from coach to skater, on the other hand, very much did.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It's honestly quite shocking to me that coaches are not mandatory reporters just by the power of their roles in cases involving students who are not minors. Coaches should carry more reponsibility to their student's well being. I can understand how things that happen outside of the rink and in personal relationships might be in the gray zone, but when a student confides in them about abuse, they should be mandatory reporters IMO (though I do see where it can backfire and perhaps make students less likely to confide in their coaches, so I acknowledge it is complex).

 

[kosjenka]

Because the assault happened at Golden Spin 2023 in Zagreb, Croatia and while she had him admitting in text messages after the fact what he did, it would have been very difficult to press charges through the local authorities.

Local person from Zagreb here. I remember this specific event very vividly. As dance event was very interesting with many young teams.
Reporting this crime to the police force in Zagreb, Croatia would actually not have been a problem as part of Croatian enforcement. I am finding myself surprised by saying that in this regard I know, as someone who has volunteered for many years for a Women's Rights Organization in Zagreb, that the team that handles these cases, especially the reports, is very professional and highly trained. Maybe somewhat there would be a challenge with language because her English is not really that good and French is probably not the strongest foreign language in law enforcement in Zagreb. However I see great illusions in many people's heads when it comes to reporting a crime such as sexual assault. This is highly difficult even if the victim is well aware that there is a trained professional on the other side ready to handle her report and her breaking down.
I don't know why people cannot understand that when a person is in such a state where they have been violated in such a vulnerable position, they are basically trying to stay alive and not break down mentally.
I believe she shared something with an Estonian official and that person would be the first one to fail her and not do their ethical and moral duty.


I see a lot of throwing around of safe sport as some sort of justice vehicle. I don't know who needs to give you a reality check but Safe Sport was probably started as a project to fix and address all the many problems in sport. The organization is set to fail because it is severely underfunded, understaffed, and many lacks actual jurisdiction on cases they handle.
Gracie Gold explained it very well in her autobiography and you can also look into the Polish-Canadian ice dancer Olivia something, who described in great detail what happened to her and the equivalent of the same organization.
This is why I am not inclined to believe that there is a correct and accurate log of people and cases that have been filed with SafeSport. Because also there was a time when it was not clear ig everyone needs to report once they find oit the same thing. For instance: if a skater confines to one coach in his coaching center about something that needs to be reported, does this mean that everybody who is the mandatory reporter and that eventually finds out about this has to also separately report or is it enough that the first person who is a mandatory reporter reports so the system is not overflown? This is a very sad and depressing topic.

 

[Aussie Willy]

@kosjenka - thank you for that post. You make excellent points.

 

[MacMadame]

I've often wondered if the various coaches have never been sanctioned is because no one has ever made an official complaint against one.

There was an official complaint against Fontana and Zimmerman over the FL incident where Cipres sent dick pics to a minor. And they were exonerated even though they clearly did not fulfil their duties under SafeSport or even FL state law.

I think we have had this discussion before in one of the other threads. A big part of the problem is that sports organisations are run by volunteers who may not even know what is going on at a rink and often do not even get training on what to do if they come across it.

Volunteers run the grassroots. But USFS has paid employees. And SafeSport requires training of people, including volunteers, in regular contact with minors in the US. I am tired of this excuse. These things aren't happening because everyone is a volunteer. They are happening because of the culture of skating, which is toxic. You could pay everyone involved so there were no volunteers ever and these things would still happen.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It's honestly quite shocking to me that coaches are not mandatory reporters just by the power of their roles in cases involving students who are not minors.

They aren't even always mandatory reporters in cases where minors are involved. It depends on where you live.

Local person from Zagreb here. I remember this specific event very vividly. As dance event was very interesting with many young teams.
Reporting this crime to the police force in Zagreb, Croatia would actually not have been a problem as part of Croatian enforcement.

She was leaving though. So she'd have to be ready to report before she left and have time to go to the police for what might be a lengthy interview. This is something the Croatian official should have guided her through but it sounds like he did nothing.

 

[Karen-W]

Volunteers run the grassroots. But USFS has paid employees. And SafeSport requires training of people, including volunteers, in regular contact with minors in the US. I am tired of this excuse. These things aren't happening because everyone is a volunteer. They are happening because of the culture of skating, which is toxic. You could pay everyone involved so there were no volunteers ever and these things would still happen.

They aren't even always mandatory reporters in cases where minors are involved. It depends on where you live.

I have to concur with this. I worked for 20+ years with my nieces' youth group and we were getting basic training on signs of abuse & reporting as far back as 2006 when I attended my first adult workers' retreat/training session. I wouldn't say the training was comprehensive or anything but I find it really hard to believe that coaches, volunteers & rink employees wouldn't have received basic training - we're talking about an environment that is full of kids & teenagers and this is most certainly something that has been a part of our cultural discourse for the better part of 30 years now since the Boy Scouts of America and Catholic Church abuse scandals made national & international headlines.

The youth groups I was involved in have had youth protection policies in place since the early 2010s for the entire international organizations, developed from state policies that were developed in the 2000s. I was never a mandatory reporter and, luckily, never dealt with a situation where I needed to report anything, but you can bet I knew what my duty was and would have done so, even if there had been potential blowback because an alleged perpetrator was well-connected or respected by others within the organization.

People are making bad ethical choices, that's the plain and simple truth, when they choose to disregard the responsibility of reporting any SafeSport/OSIC violations.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Volunteers run the grassroots. But USFS has paid employees. And SafeSport requires training of people, including volunteers, in regular contact with minors in the US. I am tired of this excuse. These things aren't happening because everyone is a volunteer. They are happening because of the culture of skating, which is toxic. You could pay everyone involved so there were no volunteers ever and these things would still happen.

It is not an excuse it is a reality. Volunteer organisations are a problem because with volunteers you have too many different variables in the ranges of experience and knowledge. As a volunteer you might only come across an issue that would fall into the safe sport space once in your life. You can improve the outcome by providing training and raise awareness of it. Making that training regular and mandatory is a higher level of control. Still it is not the same as dealing directly with something regularly so that you automatically able to deal with it.

As a volunteer I have seen a particular case of bullying in the sport where when it happened I got told "well that is the way they (the bully) always is, don't take it personally". This person was a well known bully and had been doing it for years. Didn't help that even those who knew she was a problem also were friends with her. It took me a while to even think that what the person did was unacceptable because everyone just accepted it and even laughed about it (even myself). Next time when I thought I was going to have to engage with that person again I was actually ready because I had other knowledge at my hands that fell into the health and safety space. I was prepared.

Thankfully that person is no longer around. But things are never as simple as they sound.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It's honestly quite shocking to me that coaches are not mandatory reporters just by the power of their roles in cases involving students who are not minors.

For clarity, there simply is no such thing as a mandatory reporter for a crime against an adult, unless that adult is part of a very specific group defined as vulnerable (generally dependent adults).

The term "mandated reporter" gets thrown around a lot, but when someone is a "mandated reporter," that is generally short for "mandated reporter of child abuse and neglect" to the department of children and families, or similar. The federal requirement for states to deem specific persons as mandated reporters was established by the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment act, althouh states began to have these requirements earlier. Although, again, there are state laws that also require reporting abuse of dependent adults, those do not have the same federal mandate. As a mandated reporter, I am not responsible for reporting any and all crimes to law enforcement.

In states where coaches are mandated reporters, if a coach knew of abuse or neglect of a child, they would be mandated by law to report it to DCF. If you reported it to safesport only and not to DCF, you would be in violation of the law.

It could and should be considered an ethical violation for coaches not to report abuse of an adult to safesport, and should be investigated by safesport and result in sanctions, but they can't be mandated reporters of abuse against adults.

 

[kosjenka]

She was leaving though. So she'd have to be ready to report before she left and have time to go to the police for what might be a lengthy interview. This is something the Croatian official should have guided her through but it sounds like he did nothing.

She did not report in Croatia to any authorities from what she has shared. On jurisdiction grounds this is more complicated because France has possibility that if you ever commit a crime against the citizen anywhere in the world, they can also have jurisdiction. Maybe @cholla can explain it better.

 

[cholla]

She did not report in Croatia to any authorities from what she has shared. On jurisdiction grounds this is more complicated because France has possibility that if you ever commit a crime against the citizen anywhere in the world, they can also have jurisdiction. Maybe @cholla can explain it better.

It's rather @Nmsis ' field, I don't know much about law

 

[MacMadame]

She did not report in Croatia to any authorities from what she has shared. On jurisdiction grounds this is more complicated because France has possibility that if you ever commit a crime against the citizen anywhere in the world, they can also have jurisdiction. Maybe @cholla can explain it better.

Maybe I'm confusing her with someone else (Which is a sad state of affairs in and of itself that there can be enough cases that they can be confused with each other.), but I thought she did talk to a Croatian skating official. Who, of course, had no authority outside of skating so not like reporting to the police or anyone like that.

 

[Sylvia]

I thought she did talk to a Croatian skating official.

An Estonian team skating official, from what I remember.

 

[Nmsis]

She did not report in Croatia to any authorities from what she has shared. On jurisdiction grounds this is more complicated because France has possibility that if you ever commit a crime against the citizen anywhere in the world, they can also have jurisdiction. Maybe @cholla can explain it better.

That's true. That's article 113-7 of the french Penal Code.

"French penal law can be applied to any crime, and any offence, perpetrated by a french citizen or a foreign citizen outside of the territory of the (french) Republic, when the victim has the french nationality at the time of the offence."

It's meant as a kind of patch if the person couldn't/didn't file a complaint in the country where things happened. Had she filed a complaint in Croatia, croatian law would apply. If she didn't, she has the option to file a complaint in France for the next 20 years. The principle (non bis in idem) is there can't be multiple penal procedures for the same crime. Furthermore, Croatia and France being both part of the EU, any penal sentence decided in one country can be applied as such in the other (through the EU mutual recognition system).

But like in the Ciprès case, it's not the same for a US (where Desyatov lives) -EU (where Mazingue could file a complaint) dual location. If he was to be convicted and if Desyatov was not a US citizen yet (marriage and all), extradition would be a possibility. Otherwise, he could skip consequences by staying in the US.