Re-opening rinks with social distancing

Jozet

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Small group lessons would seem to be incompatible with social distancing. Unless/until a vaccine or effective treatment is developed, the emphasis should be on keeping skaters (and coaches) as far apart as possible.
I was thinking more like what the US Olympic Committee is suggesting. Keeping one coach with a "pod" of athletes and that pod trains together. Not so much like Learn To Skate where there are a bunch of little kids all doing swizzles at one time, but one coach at wall with her/his 5 or 6 skaters on ice, working on what needs to be worked on, more like a one-room schoolhouse. There could be some overlap, maybe if two kids working on single flip, two on double, etc. I would assume in that situation, costs could be cut a bit because it's not truly private. The other benefit is that if anyone in the pod gets ill, only that group might have to quarantine, depending....

Unless we're saying there's no coaching at all until a vaccine. That's different.

ETA: Meh...

You're probably right. This whole thing just rests like a Rubik's cube in my head, trying to figure out solutions. It stops me from falling into deep pits of despair. :(
 
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MacMadame

Staying at home
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You're probably right. This whole thing just rests like a Rubik's cube in my head, trying to figure out solutions. It stops me from falling into deep pits of despair. :(
Your county and state public health officers should be a resource for this. They have done way more research than any one of us and will be issuing guidelines that may have the force of law behind them. The rinks and clubs should be talking to them and working together on guidelines.
 

Jozet

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Your county and state public health officers should be a resource for this. They have done way more research than any one of us and will be issuing guidelines that may have the force of law behind them. The rinks and clubs should be talking to them and working together on guidelines.
We are. The guidelines are specific in some ways, but general in others. They aren't going to get into the nitty-gritty of the details for every single business or situation. There are 7 rinks within a 50 square mile area, all with different set-ups and clientele. We need to be proactive in thinking through the specifics of our rink.
 

Jozet

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2,100
@MacMadame
I'm sure we're overthinking some things. I think the consensus is to overdo the rules at first and we can dial back. But it's hard to open and then put more restrictions in place if things aren't working. It's like parenting. At beginning of summer I have chore charts and a bunch or rules for using at least some of their time wisely (or even awake). It works pretty well at first, but by the end of summer, my son is feral. ;)
 

concorde

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328
Here's one rink that opened- people in the stands, no masks on anyone, kleenex boxes all lined up on the barrier, definitely more than 8 people on the ice at a time. This is in Tampa, where cases keep rising. Florida had its deadliest week https://www.tampabay.com/news/healt...tate-prepares-for-first-weekend-of-reopening/ I have zero hope the rest of the country won't experience the horror the NYC region has and continues to.
I don't think that is correct information. What we noticed is that many venue websites have a -19 blanket statement about closures but have not updated their actual schedules. The real status of rinks are typically listed on their Facebook pages.

If you go to the Tampa Bay facebook page, an early May facebook page suggests that the rink will open the following weekend but there is no announcement it did. My guess is the photos are all pre-19 photos.

Florida only started Phase 1 on May 4. Under Phase 1, all gyms and fitness venues are to remain closed. Under Florida Phase 2, gyms and fitness venues can open at 75% capacity. No date has been set for Phase 2.

Fyi. My mom has a house in Florida and we are deciding whether to go there. So we have been tracking the status of Florida rink for about a month.
 

Allisanna

Active Member
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225
I don't think that is correct information. What we noticed is that many venue websites have a -19 blanket statement about closures but have not updated their actual schedules. The real status of rinks are typically listed on their Facebook pages.

If you go to the Tampa Bay facebook page, an early May facebook page suggests that the rink will open the following weekend but there is no announcement it did. My guess is the photos are all pre-19 photos.

Florida only started Phase 1 on May 4. Under Phase 1, all gyms and fitness venues are to remain closed. Under Florida Phase 2, gyms and fitness venues can open at 75% capacity. No date has been set for Phase 2.

Fyi. My mom has a house in Florida and we are deciding whether to go there. So we have been tracking the status of Florida rink for about a month.
Under "most recent" there are videos and comments from a few days ago. So that rink definitely opened back up.
 

Orm Irian

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627
Skate Canada has released Return to Skating guidelines. Provincial governments are in charge of when rinks can reopen and presumably of persons-per-square-metre rules limiting numbers on the ice, but the rest of these look fairly sensible.

Limiting the number of people in the space where training is happening is going to be critical, though. Breathing is how this lungi spreads most of all, and the deeper breathing associated with things like exercise and singing raise the risks considerably. There are case studies of one infected person passing it on to half a restaurant, and one sick person at a socially distanced choir practice still infecting more than half the group.
 

antmanb

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If there are strict limits on numbers of skaters on the ice at any one time that ice is going to get very expensive which will act as a further barrier to people getting back on the ice.
 

Orm Irian

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If there are strict limits on numbers of skaters on the ice at any one time that ice is going to get very expensive which will act as a further barrier to people getting back on the ice.
~shrugs~ Them's the breaks if you want to skate while it's still a high-risk activity.
 

antmanb

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~shrugs~ Them's the breaks if you want to skate while it's still a high-risk activity.
I wasn't giving an opinion one way or the other it was just an observation - if fewer skaters are allowed on the ice then the per person cost of that ice is going to go up a lot and skaters will have less availability of ice...I wonder if anyone will actually bother - less ice, higher cost, is it worth even trying to get back to where they were in these circumstances, or can they even afford to do so?
 

kittyjake5

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Jozet

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There are hockey photos from the Tampa and Clearwater rinks. No masks on coaches, no social distancing. If the rinks are operating without a waiver, they may not be covered by insurance. PSA has said coaches operating in such rinks should contact insurance to see if they are covered as well as their attorneys. Not sure if also a SafeSport violation to not follow CDC guidelines and put skaters at risk...?
 

bladesofgorey

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219
unbelievable.
Editing to add: it's not just the coaches and teams that are put in danger, it's the rink staff (especially cleaning staff) and any rink patrons who are near the hockey boxes for their own sessions.
 

Jozet

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unbelievable.
Editing to add: it's not just the coaches and teams that are put in danger, it's the rink staff (especially cleaning staff) and any rink patrons who are near the hockey boxes for their own sessions.
I don't see how coaching outside of state restrictions doesn't also go completely against the PSA code of ethics.

From PSA site:

"Coaches/students in states with an active shelter in place order should be following those state and national directives regardless of whether rink owners are opening and moving forward “at their own risk”. In these states, we recommend continuation of off-ice and virtual training until those mandates are lifted.

If a member has been contacted by a rink or club to return to coaching, that member should review the state and local proclamations. If the coach questions whether or not it is appropriate to return to coaching, then he or she should seek local guidance from an attorney licensed in that state to advise them."

But shouldn't the PSA be enforcing their own Code of Ethics? I'd say this one at least gets called into consideration during a national health emergency.:

6. Members shall not engage in, nor knowingly permit, any athlete with whom they are charged with the responsibility of coaching, to engage in any offense in violation of federal, state, or local law, or laws of a foreign government.
 
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VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
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6,850
I don't see how coaching outside of state restrictions doesn't also go completely against the PSA code of ethics.

From PSA site:

"Coaches/students in states with an active shelter in place order should be following those state and national directives regardless of whether rink owners are opening and moving forward “at their own risk”. In these states, we recommend continuation of off-ice and virtual training until those mandates are lifted.

If a member has been contacted by a rink or club to return to coaching, that member should review the state and local proclamations. If the coach questions whether or not it is appropriate to return to coaching, then he or she should seek local guidance from an attorney licensed in that state to advise them."

But shouldn't the PSA be enforcing their own Code of Ethics? I'd say this one at least gets called into consideration during a national health emergency.:

6. Members shall not engage in, nor knowingly permit, any athlete with whom they are charged with the responsibility of coaching, to engage in any offense in violation of federal, state, or local law, or laws of a foreign government.
So why don't you report the rink to the appropriate skating and local jurisdictional authorities?
 

Rock2

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If there are strict limits on numbers of skaters on the ice at any one time that ice is going to get very expensive which will act as a further barrier to people getting back on the ice.
My thoughts exactly. I'm curious to see how the economics play out, which could be different, rink to rink.

It's the contact sports teams and large classes that will be coming back last. I wonder if the higher-level skaters will be able to fill up some of that unused capacity with more ice time to catch up....?
 

overedge

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My thoughts exactly. I'm curious to see how the economics play out, which could be different, rink to rink.

It's the contact sports teams and large classes that will be coming back last. I wonder if the higher-level skaters will be able to fill up some of that unused capacity with more ice time to catch up....?
I can't imagine how learn-to-skate classes are going to be feasible (or affordable as @antmanb points out re capacity vs ice cost) for the foreseaable future.
 

Jozet

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2,100
I can't imagine how learn-to-skate classes are going to be feasible (or affordable as @antmanb points out re capacity vs ice cost) for the foreseaable future.
In Green Phase (last phase before no restrictions at all), Pennsylvania is limited to 25 skaters total per "active area" i.e. rink, so no, most rink will have to count on hockey buying up ice time. We will not be able to have more than 25 skaters/coaches on the ice until all ********* restrictions are lifted completely. So basically, not until vaccine or herd immunity.
 

Debbie S

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Recreation?
The doc specifically talks about training...singles, pairs/dance and synchro. Public sessions weren't mentioned (I think we can assume they're a long way away). Since the purpose of masks is to prevent respiratory droplets from traveling toward other people, and the more "athletic" you get, the more you exhale, saying skaters don't need to wear masks then basically defeats the purpose of their whole doc.

But given that this is USFS, I shouldn't be surprised.
 

her grace

standing with Mariah
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3,641
Do you know whether they have any protocols/restrictions made public for using the rinks? Again, trying to work with our local rink, but it's hard to find info on exactly what rinks are doing to open. I know all areas are different, but it would be good to work out any "we didn't think of that!" beforehand. I hadn't considered parking lots and pick-up line procedures until a rink in BC mentioned it.
Texas definitely doesn't. The "leadership" has decided that everyone can use their own common sense and do whatever they want.

ETA: Rinks will be limited to 25% occupancy limits. In Texas, there is no order to wear masks. Counties that had those orders, even when they weren't penalizing violators, were ordered by the Texas Attorney General to remove those orders. Businesses can set their own standards for guests and employees. It is "recommended" that people follow advice from the CDC. @Jozet Here is the specific list of recommendations for gyms and indoor exercise facilities. https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files...nTexas-Checklist-Gyms-Exercise-Facilities.pdf

I haven't seen anything posted on rink websites either and I don't have any insider info.
 
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Jozet

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Texas definitely doesn't. The "leadership" has decided that everyone can use their own common sense and do whatever they want.

I haven't seen anything posted on rink websites either and I don't have any insider info.
Interesting. I think a lot of people have a different definition of "common sense" than I do, judging by the numbers of retail employees and customers I see not wearing masks. Oof.

I guess these rinks wouldn't be doing contact tracing, either? I'm so worried about our older coaches in figure skating and hockey. I know the ******** is bad for the economy, I got that. But my son losing one or several beloved coaches would be very, very hard, too.
 

GarrAargHrumph

I can kill you with my brain
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Latest USFS communication: https://www.usfigureskating.org/news/article/returning-skating-programs-and-disciplines

Its official statement is that wearing masks on the ice is encouraged but skaters don't have to if they are doing "athletic training" - uh, that's the whole point. :shuffle:
They state that you don't have to wear one during actual training because earlier in the document, they state that all people must/should wear one when entering the building, and when they're in the building but not training.
 

Debbie S

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They state that you don't have to wear one during actual training because earlier in the document, they state that all people must/should wear one when entering the building, and when they're in the building but not training.
Yes, I read it, but training is when larger amounts of droplets are flying around, and social distancing is pretty much impossible with everyone flying around the rink. So wearing a mask during training seems even more important than when you enter the building 6 feet away from everyone else. USFS is saying people should wear masks, but not when the risk of transmission is highest.
 

Jozet

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2,100
Yes, I read it, but training is when larger amounts of droplets are flying around, and social distancing is pretty much impossible with everyone flying around the rink. So wearing a mask during training seems even more important than when you enter the building 6 feet away from everyone else. USFS is saying people should wear masks, but not when the risk of transmission is highest.
I think this is why it's so, so, so important that rinks enforce training groups -- with figure skating and with hockey. One coach with the same 5-10 skaters for the foreseeable future. I'd even limit coaches to coaching at one rink. If skaters really can't wear masks, then the contact numbers for each skater and coach in a rink need to be known and finite.
 

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