Re-opening rinks with social distancing

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
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Recreation?
The doc specifically talks about training...singles, pairs/dance and synchro. Public sessions weren't mentioned (I think we can assume they're a long way away). Since the purpose of masks is to prevent respiratory droplets from traveling toward other people, and the more "athletic" you get, the more you exhale, saying skaters don't need to wear masks then basically defeats the purpose of their whole doc.

But given that this is USFS, I shouldn't be surprised.
 

her grace

Team Guignard/Fabbri
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Do you know whether they have any protocols/restrictions made public for using the rinks? Again, trying to work with our local rink, but it's hard to find info on exactly what rinks are doing to open. I know all areas are different, but it would be good to work out any "we didn't think of that!" beforehand. I hadn't considered parking lots and pick-up line procedures until a rink in BC mentioned it.

Texas definitely doesn't. The "leadership" has decided that everyone can use their own common sense and do whatever they want.

ETA: Rinks will be limited to 25% occupancy limits. In Texas, there is no order to wear masks. Counties that had those orders, even when they weren't penalizing violators, were ordered by the Texas Attorney General to remove those orders. Businesses can set their own standards for guests and employees. It is "recommended" that people follow advice from the CDC. @Jozet Here is the specific list of recommendations for gyms and indoor exercise facilities. https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files...nTexas-Checklist-Gyms-Exercise-Facilities.pdf

I haven't seen anything posted on rink websites either and I don't have any insider info.
 
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Z

ZilphaK

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Texas definitely doesn't. The "leadership" has decided that everyone can use their own common sense and do whatever they want.

I haven't seen anything posted on rink websites either and I don't have any insider info.

Interesting. I think a lot of people have a different definition of "common sense" than I do, judging by the numbers of retail employees and customers I see not wearing masks. Oof.

I guess these rinks wouldn't be doing contact tracing, either? I'm so worried about our older coaches in figure skating and hockey. I know the ******** is bad for the economy, I got that. But my son losing one or several beloved coaches would be very, very hard, too.
 

GarrAargHrumph

I can kill you with my brain
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Latest USFS communication: https://www.usfigureskating.org/news/article/returning-skating-programs-and-disciplines

Its official statement is that wearing masks on the ice is encouraged but skaters don't have to if they are doing "athletic training" - uh, that's the whole point. :shuffle:

They state that you don't have to wear one during actual training because earlier in the document, they state that all people must/should wear one when entering the building, and when they're in the building but not training.
 

Debbie S

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They state that you don't have to wear one during actual training because earlier in the document, they state that all people must/should wear one when entering the building, and when they're in the building but not training.
Yes, I read it, but training is when larger amounts of droplets are flying around, and social distancing is pretty much impossible with everyone flying around the rink. So wearing a mask during training seems even more important than when you enter the building 6 feet away from everyone else. USFS is saying people should wear masks, but not when the risk of transmission is highest.
 
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ZilphaK

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Yes, I read it, but training is when larger amounts of droplets are flying around, and social distancing is pretty much impossible with everyone flying around the rink. So wearing a mask during training seems even more important than when you enter the building 6 feet away from everyone else. USFS is saying people should wear masks, but not when the risk of transmission is highest.

I think this is why it's so, so, so important that rinks enforce training groups -- with figure skating and with hockey. One coach with the same 5-10 skaters for the foreseeable future. I'd even limit coaches to coaching at one rink. If skaters really can't wear masks, then the contact numbers for each skater and coach in a rink need to be known and finite.
 
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ZilphaK

Guest
Contact tracing is performed by public health offices. Mostly like at the county level.
Right, but rinks can help that by keeping track of who is on sheets of ice, crossing paths in lobbies and locker rooms. It would be in a rink's interest to do this and be meticulous; you'd only want to limit staff and coach and skater quarantines to specific people and limit the times an entire rink might need to be shut down for 2 weeks.

This is what schools are preparing for -- on again, off again lockdowns. It will be the same for rinks, gyms, etc., I would think.
 

her grace

Team Guignard/Fabbri
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Texas Governor Abbott issued an order yesterday that "skating rinks" can open on May 22. A lot of rinks already opened yesterday because they considered themselves "indoor exercise facilities." I don't expect any of these rinks to close for the next 3 days, especially since Abbott has made it clear that his orders can be ignored with impunity. :shuffle:
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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35,792
Some examples of what rink openings may look like. These links are from Sugarland in Houston. Nothing is going to be 100% protective, but as a parent and skater, these kinds of rules/procedures make me feel more confident/comfortable, rather than less.

Freestyle rules

http://www.sugarlandice.com/figure-skating.html

For Learn To Skate

http://www.sugarlandice.com/learn-to-skate-times--info.html

This has nothing to do with the rules (which I agree are very well thought out) but I was delighted to see Mark Janoschak is this rink's director of skating. I loved his competitive skating.
 

Yazmeen

All we are saying, is give peace a chance
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bladesofgorey

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imo that's the safest and most sensible plan I've seen and all rinks should follow it until our numbers in the US start going (and staying) way, way down.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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Just throwing a few things in the mix here.

While they are suggesting masks, this is not a failsafe measure. In fact with skating, how many times do people wipe and blow their nose in a session? Skating is notorious for tissue use. Masks have to be moved with hands which have wiped noses.

Skaters wear gloves to keep their hands warm. If you are using tissues you are spreading bodily fluids on your gloves as well.

Then keep in mind once you have blown your nose you have whatever over your hands which you can then wipe over surfaces such as the barrier, seats, etc.

I don't see any measures as totally failsafe because there is always going to be residual everywhere.
 

Aussie Willy

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These are good points. At our rink, the thought is to get skaters from their car, directly to the ice, no bags. They can bring a water bottle, but you're right, there's a lot of nose-blowing. I think some rinks are taping off individual areas where bottles can be placed -- tissues, too, or keep/put them in your pockets? The less stuff in rinks the better.

Staff would need to wipe down top of boards, for sure. Our rink has a new spray thing that takes a few minutes to spray down big surfaces, some miracle chemical that kills the ***** in 10 minutes.

No one will be sitting anywhere unless injured, so hopefully the get in-get on-get off-get out will reduce time to touch stuff. Maybe have hand sanitizer right at rink door to use as soon as getting off ice.

But yeah, it's going to take a lot of habit-breaking. And no, nothing is going to be 100% effective at protecting. We are going to have coaches on ice be in charge of monitoring their students (no free-for-all freestyle at first; you must be there by invite of your coach), so hopefully that will help keep the younger kids in line. They are going to have to be doing a lot of this kind of thing at school, as well, but I guess we get to train them first.
I think the main thing is to do a full risk assessment and work out every possible combination and permutation of every little thing that can go wrong. Then use that to guide the measures in place.

I tried posting a link to some really good information for workplaces but with the blockage on FSU the link wouldn't work.

Go to www.worksafe.tas.gov.au. Then follow the various links to Safe Workplaces Framework. There is a really good checklist for workplaces on there.
 
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spinZZ

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Just throwing a few things in the mix here.

While they are suggesting masks, this is not a failsafe measure. In fact with skating, how many times do people wipe and blow their nose in a session? Skating is notorious for tissue use. Masks have to be moved with hands which have wiped noses.

Skaters wear gloves to keep their hands warm. If you are using tissues you are spreading bodily fluids on your gloves as well.

Then keep in mind once you have blown your nose you have whatever over your hands which you can then wipe over surfaces such as the barrier, seats, etc.

I don't see any measures as totally failsafe because there is always going to be residual everywhere.
I agree with you. I read over the Park City rules cited above. One key provision wouldn't work for me at all: you can't bring anything (including water and tissues) to park by the boards or in the hockey boxes. Everything has to stay in a designated spot in the lobby. I've never been to Park City, so I don't know how big it is, and how quickly you can get from the ice to the lobby and back.

I typically need to drink water every 10 min or so; and I probably blow my nose at least 4 times in the course of an hour. At my rinks, if I need to return to the lobby each time for water and tissues, I'd probably lose at least 10 - 15 min for an hour session under normal circumstances, probably more under strict social distancing protocols (no quick dashes back-and-forth).
 
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spinZZ

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Staff would need to wipe down top of boards, for sure. Our rink has a new spray thing that takes a few minutes to spray down big surfaces, some miracle chemical that kills the ***** in 10 minutes.
There are many disinfectants that will kill off the viruses in 10 min or less. That's not a problem. One practical problem is whether a strong disinfectant will attack and degrade the surface (being cleaned), especially upon frequently repeated use. The major problem though is that most disinfectants kill off the viruses only for the short duration during which they are applied, with no residual long-term protection. So a freshly decontaminated surface gets recontaminated the instant an infected person touches it, or coughs or sneezes on it. That's the big challenge.
 

Aussie Willy

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I agree with you. I read over the Park City rules cited above. One key provision wouldn't work for me at all: you can't bring anything (including water and tissues) to park by the boards or in the hockey boxes. Everything has to stay in a designated spot in the lobby. I've never been to Park City, so I don't know how big it is, and how quickly you can get from the ice to the lobby and back.

I typically need to drink water every 10 min or so; and I probably blow my nose at least 4 times in the course of an hour. At my rinks, if I need to return to the lobby each time for water and tissues, I'd probably lose at least 10 - 15 min for an hour session under normal circumstances, probably more under strict social distancing protocols (no quick dashes back-and-forth).
You could a skater risk assessment with questions like "How many times do you blow your nose in an hour" :)
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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Of course these guidelines aren't going to work for everyone. People have some choices though. They can stay home or they can adapt to the new rules. They can also try to get the rules changed if they think they won't work for a majority.

I do like the idea of having a place on the boards for each person on the ice for a tissue box and water bottle. Marked off like the places in the lobby for their other stuff or replacing the places in the lobby.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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35,792
You could do a skater risk assessment with questions like "How many times do you blow your nose in an hour" :)

The first thing I thought of when I read this was, when you do a really fast spin and boogers or snot fly out of your nose. Talk about a public health threat, even when there's not a p******c.
 

spinZZ

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The first thing I thought of when I read this was, when you do a really fast spin and boogers or snot fly out of your nose. Talk about a public health threat, even when there's not a p******c.
Over the course of two decades or so, I've had a nosebleed several times while I was spinning. I ended up with a circular array of red dots frozen onto the ice around me. Showed my spins weren't travelling too much.:rolleyes:
 

spinZZ

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216
Of course these guidelines aren't going to work for everyone. People have some choices though. They can stay home or they can adapt to the new rules. They can also try to get the rules changed if they think they won't work for a majority.

I do like the idea of having a place on the boards for each person on the ice for a tissue box and water bottle. Marked off like the places in the lobby for their other stuff or replacing the places in the lobby.
Of course, if them's the rules, we can choose to take 'em or leave 'em. But some here thought these rules were great, a model to emulate for other rinks.

When you come up with rules, you should distinguish between "needs" and "wants". If you don't satisfy the needs for a sufficient number of skaters, the business will flop. When rules are proposed, there should be a preliminary walkthrough for feedback. Otherwise, you can end up with unintended, though not unexpected, consequences. As one example, look what happened in the NJ parks about a week or so ago. Parks were opened, but facilities, including restrooms, were closed. When the cleanup crews came round after the first weekend, guess what disgusting ?!? (literally) was left on the grounds by the visitors?
 
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Aussie Willy

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Over the course of two decades or so, I've had a nosebleed several times while I was spinning. I ended up with a circular array of red dots frozen onto the ice around me. Showed my spins weren't travelling too much.:rolleyes:
Sorry this is a gross one.

A coach I had years ago said when she was training they had competitions to see how big a blob of snot would come out of their nose during a spin. And when they stopped it would hit the side of their face.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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35,792
A coach I had years ago said when she was training they had competitions to see how big a blob of snot would come out of their nose during a spin. And when they stopped it would hit the side of their face.

When IJS was implemented, some of us suggested extra +GOE for how far the ribbon of snot went when it came out of your nose during a spin :lol:
 

Debbie S

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Skating Club of Boston's reopening guidelines are posted here: https://scboston.org/re-opening-guidelines/

The actual procedures are in PDFs. 15 people (skaters + coaches) on the ice and they are requiring masks everywhere in the building, including the ice. Coaches will have their own socially-distanced spot at the boards. Skaters limited to 2 sessions/day.

These seem very sensible to me. Of course, the issue that exists for every location is what about asymptomatic carriers. But masks and distancing should mitigate that.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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35,792
An article I read today said that several Canadian amateur sports federations feel that responsibility - and liability - for avoiding the v*r*s is being pushed down to the individual team/club. And they are not happy about it, because they are not public health experts, as well as being volunteers who are already overworked. Also it could be very $$$$ for a club or team that got sued if someone caught the v*r*s at their facility or during one of their events.

One example is that the national amateur baseball federation has issued club guidelines for re-opening. The guidelines say the only people that can be in the dugout during a game are the team members and the coach(es). But the guidelines also say that each team is responsible for sanitizing the dugout before they leave. Obviously pre-teen or teenage kids and their parents are not experts on how to adequately clean a sports facility to get rid of any v*r*ses.
 
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ZilphaK

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There are many disinfectants that will kill off the viruses in 10 min or less. That's not a problem. One practical problem is whether a strong disinfectant will attack and degrade the surface (being cleaned), especially upon frequently repeated use. The major problem though is that most disinfectants kill off the viruses only for the short duration during which they are applied, with no residual long-term protection. So a freshly decontaminated surface gets recontaminated the instant an infected person touches it, or coughs or sneezes on it. That's the big challenge.
Right. This is why most rinks aren't opening locker rooms, are removing all benches, don't want anyone setting anything down anywhere as much as possible. The less cleaning needed, the more likely they will be to stay open.

It may mean just your water bottle, keep your tissues in your pocket. It's not going to work for everyone, and I'm guessing some people will just wait until loosening restrictions to skate again, while others will find a way to work with the stricter rules. We know parents are going to complain about not wanting to just drop off their kids; the answer to that is going to be, "You'll have to wait." Will some people stop skating or move on to other sports? Probably. Will some rinks close completely? Probably. The rinks that can hold on and find the skaters who are willing to work within the restrictions will be the last ones standing.
 

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