Re-opening rinks with social distancing

[spinZZ]

Email from USFS today (the key paragraphs):



But yes, each state/region is different and will likely not have exactly the same rules. Plus, rinks aren't part of or bound to USFS. Clubs will likely have to follow local laws and rink policies first. But it will be interesting to see what USFS says about comps...may be a hint as to whether we'll have a qualifying season this year.

<<Emphasis added.>>

Not just clubs, all groups and activities will have to follow local laws and rink policies first.

 

[Debbie S]

<<Emphasis added.>>

Not just clubs, all groups and activities will have to follow local laws and rink policies first.

Yes, I know that. Figure skating "groups and activities" fall either under the rink or the club, the two entities I mentioned.

 

[Debbie S]

The prospect of figuring out how to group our various club skaters and coaches together is equal parts , , and . Mostly the first two. The problem is that most coaches couldn't teach all of their students over a 2 or even 3 hour period, unless lessons are going to be 15 min long. You'd have to have mixing. With elite skaters, often they work with multiple coaches, and the coaches in turn work with multiple students over an entire day. Even if the skaters stay in one group every day, the coaches are going to have to move among multiple groups.

 

[sk8girl]

The Skating Club of Houston is apparently re-opening for freestyle sessions next week, with strict guidelines for social distancing, only 8 people per session, and everyone must wear masks, including while skating!

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I am thousands of km from there and have no connections there - a skating friend just happened to see this on social media and mentioned it to me. If anyone does have any connections in that area, I'd be very curious to hear how this goes! (Pretty sure my rink won't be re-opening for at least a couple of months yet...)

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

My rinks are in NJ, so I'm not sure they'll be opening any time soon.

 

[Yazmeen]

My rinks are in NJ, so I'm not sure they'll be opening any time soon.

Even when mine reopens (north of Philly in Montgomery County), I likely won't go back for a while. I'm in my 60s and have asthma and hypertension, so I'm high risk. I want to wait until things really start cooling down here in the state.

 

[spinZZ]

Interesting article

https://www.registerguard.com/sports/20200429/leaders-chart-path-back-to-playing-fields-for-children

"The U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee distributed a seven-page set of guidelines of its own this week that called on participants to “self-monitor for symptoms of *********-19 twice daily,” as one of several steps in a multilayered return scenario."

Guidelines include

Return to individual and small-group first.
Very few, if any, spectators.
Participants subject to temperature checks and verification they haven't been in contact with anyone with THE THING.

This was interesting:
"Participants will be grouped in 'bubbles' allowing to train with a specific group of people that will not change until restrictions are relaxed further. "

In larger training rinks, you could see one coach having the ice for X amount of time with their students. No mix and match. Not sure how/whether that would work in the real world of non-elite skating. May have to wait until next levels of restrictions are lifted.

The problem with this approach is that the virus is spread not only by symptomatic people, but also by asymptomatic people. Worse, in the early stages of infection, even a test will still show up as negative.

 

[bladesofgorey]

The problem with this approach is that the ***** is spread not only by symptomatic people, but also by asymptomatic people. Worse, in the early stages of infection, even a test will still show up as negative.

EXACTLY. Not to mention that not everyone who gets COVID-19, even very sick people, have a fever for long stretches of time. I was very sick and only had a fever of 99.9 for parts of three days out of the nearly 4 weeks I've been sick. Thinking temperature checks are going to work well as a screening option for all of the places starting to open up is pure madness.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I'm seeing videos on instagram these last few days of freestyle sessions at rinks that have reopened in the US (in Georgia and perhaps elsewhere) and none of the skaters and coaches in the videos are wearing masks to protect themselves, or more importantly, others. I'm very concerned we are going to be losing a lot of coaches and rink employees to this illness as people continue to be irresponsible like this as additional rinks open.

 

[spinZZ]

I just did a Google search on "ice rinks coronavirus". The first link is the use of an ice rink in Madrid as a temporary morgue for coronavirus victims. Followed by contingency plans at one rink in the UK and several rinks in the US for similar repurposing. Really grim.

Reminds me of an episode of the TV series Blacklist. One rink was used to entomb bodies of mob hits.

 

[syzygy]

This isn't intended to be snarky. If you hate coaching group lessons so much, why do you do them? Since you hope group lessons don't come back for a long time, I assume you don't need the income from them. So if you hate them and don't need the income, why do them? I've found that many group lessons are unsatisfactory partly because many of the coaches really don't like them and don't put much effort into them (I'm not making any sweeping global generalization here; just my local observations). But they do them for the extra income.

I actually do love coaching them, it's just I have this one student who is very difficult and I'm hoping if my rink doesn't open them and other rinks do, she'll go somewhere else. I was being dramatic.

 

[overedge]

I just did a Google search on "ice rinks ********". The first link is the use of an ice rink in Madrid as a temporary morgue for ******** victims. Followed by contingency plans at one rink in the UK and several rinks in the US for similar repurposing. Really grim.

Reminds me of an episode of the TV series Blacklist. One rink was used to entomb bodies of mob hits.

There were plans in NYC to use rinks for that purpose after 9/11.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

So I'm going to admit I don't know anything about this, which is exactly my reason for bringing it up:

If rinks could be required to take temperature checks, has there been any guidance around whether or not that information would need to be HIPAA compliant?

I am thinking about the ways in which someone's temperature might be sensitive health info and the potential privacy or legal issues that could arise—especially for businesses such as ice rinks that have been slow to modernize w/r/t technology and data.

Just curious, that's all!

(For the record, I do not plan on setting foot in an ice rink until I feel it is safe again—and I'm perfectly fine with losing a full year if that's what it entails.)

 

[Yazmeen]

So I'm going to admit I don't know anything about this, which is exactly my reason for bringing it up:

If rinks could be required to take temperature checks, has there been any guidance around whether or not that information would need to be HIPAA compliant?

I am thinking about the ways in which someone's temperature might be sensitive health info and the potential privacy or legal issues that could arise—especially for businesses such as ice rinks that have been slow to modernize w/r/t technology and data.

Just curious, that's all!

(For the record, I do not plan on setting foot in an ice rink until I feel it is safe again—and I'm perfectly fine with losing a full year if that's what it entails.)

From my POV as as physician, ALL OF THIS ABOVE!!!! Thanks for bringing it up. This brings up a whole other kettle of fish that hasn't been addressed at all, namely privacy of what it medical information.

 

[bladesofgorey]

More rinks opening up with clips today on instagram showing most of the skaters in these rinks not protecting others by wearing masks, so I guess none of the rinks that are currently open in the US are requiring/enforcing this. A public health disaster.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

US Figure Skating said they're going to be offering guidance to rinks that are reopening by May 4. They'd let us know they were going to be doing this on April 30. Unfortunately, many states "reopened" May 1, so it'll be late. And they're guidelines, not rules - suggestions, not regulations.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I asked one of the posters at a rink that's open in CO who was wearing a mask why others weren't, and she said it's because they are required to wear a mask in the public areas but on the ice skaters find it "hard to breathe" in masks so the rinks make it optional for them to wear them in the rink itself. Unfortunately as preventable as it is lots of people at these rinks may learn the true meaning of "hard to breathe" by not protecting each other.

 

[Debbie S]

US Figure Skating said they're going to be offering guidance to rinks that are reopening by May 4. They'd let us know they were going to be doing this on April 30. Unfortunately, many states "reopened" May 1, so it'll be late. And they're guidelines, not rules - suggestions, not regulations.

And nothing is posted as of this minute. It's 2:30 in CO - 2 1/2 hours and counting....

It will probably be at least a couple months before rinks in my area open and the owners/mgmt aren't going to listen to USFS anyway, but I'm interested to see what they recommend.

 

[MacMadame]

It is very hard to breathe through most masks doing a lot of exercises. Any regulations or even just guidelines need to take that into account.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

Here is a link to the guidelines USFS released today

 

[bladesofgorey]

It is very hard to breathe through most masks doing a lot of exercises. Any regulations or even just guidelines need to take that into account.

Call me crazy but the regulations and guidelines should take into account safety above all else first. So if you are performing an activity around other people where you are exhaling strongly/coughing/sniffling/dripping near them and/or in a space they will immediately travel through you need to wear a mask or be away from all other people in a n extremely well-ventilated space.

 

[MacMadame]

Call me crazy but the regulations and guidelines should take into account safety above all else first. So if you are performing an activity around other people where you are exhaling strongly/coughing/sniffling/dripping near them and/or in a space they will immediately travel through you need to wear a mask or be away from all other people in a n extremely well-ventilated space.

My point is that if your guidelines require athletes to wear masks, they aren't going to work. So you need to figure out how to keep them safe without wearing masks. And, if you can't do that, then they can't go back to skating.

 

[Debbie S]

Tom Z was on the ice at the World Arena today with some of his skaters. Pics and video on his IG ("coachtomz"). It looked like the skaters put their skates on in the parking lot and lined up 6 feet apart to get into the rink. About 5 skaters on the session Tom was posting about, all wearing masks. I guess we'll see how sustainable that is.

 

[syzygy]

It is very hard to breathe through most masks doing a lot of exercises. Any regulations or even just guidelines need to take that into account.

My point is that if your guidelines require athletes to wear masks, they aren't going to work. So you need to figure out how to keep them safe without wearing masks. And, if you can't do that, then they can't go back to skating.

I agree completely. It is impossible to skate a whole program in a proper cloth mask. I have a very good cardiovascular system and doing it off ice is impossible, I don't think it would be possible on ice. A mask could move while spinning or jumping no matter how well it is secured.

 

[MacMadame]

Guy in mask jumping and spinning on ice
https://youtu.be/TL1jENr898c

That totally proves an elite skater can get through an entire program wearing a face mask.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Look,
I was a marathon runner, a good one. I raced against international athletes. Many of the athletes for Asia who arrived in the states for international races wore masks outdoors for all of their workouts in the days leading up to their races. I have personally witnessed some killer track workouts performed right near me, at the very same facility I was using, by large groups of elite runners wearing masks.

 

[FSWer]

I haven't heard much about the reopening of rinks myself. But I just checked Newington Arena's website, and they have nothing listed for Public Skate for the month of May. So I'm guessing that they too are closed until the Governor reopens everything. Or until this virus is over. As far as social Distancing goes,if you are at a Public Skate you can just skate far away from other skaters on the ice and all. Which is good to do anyway. But as far as the future goes, I don't think we would ever end up not being able to socialize with or touch skaters again. As Skaters will always need to do so for Pairs,Ice-Dance and Synchro. So I can only conclude with saying that if and when they come up with a vaccine,(and let's all hope they do) that it would need to be one that works and that is %100 reliable to everyone... especially Skaters

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

The hardcore military guys where I live run significant miles, at speed, wearing full gear, including masks.* I feel it is possible to skate a long program while wearing a mask, and that once we get fit enough to do so, it'll make us better at being able to get through a program without the mask. But we will need to get used to it, as they will restrict breathing - that's why the military guys are wearing them.

*They've been doing this for years, well before the current situation.

 

[ZilphaK]

That totally proves an elite skater can get through an entire program wearing a face mask.

No, but it proves you can spin and jump with a mask.

More likely, only elite skaters -- maybe just Grand Prix/Worlds/Olympic hopefuls -- need to even think about putting together a program to compete. Anyone at that level will most likely be first in line with the financial and USFSA support they need to train as they need to, sans mask, with as much space as they need to.

Anyone else, I wouldn't even consider the possibility of competing for a long time. You're not going to have people on precious, limited ice time caring about needing to get out of the way of some intermediate skater flying around the ice doing their program for the tenth time without a mask on and spraying spit everywhere.

Priorities will be at the far ends: getting true elite skaters the ice they need to train, and getting as many of the hoi polloi who aren't going to be switching rinks for "better training" the ice time they need to learn swizzles, power pulls and double salchows while wearing their masks, and keep them in skating instead of switching to golf. Maybe next year, individual rinks can host some small, local "for fun" competitions with just skaters at that rink.

The NFL is most likely going to cancel its season. They are already starting to dial back games. If NFL players aren't training and competing, no one is going to risk their community for a skating competition.

ETA: Beijing marathon runners in masks

Beijing Marathon runners brave hazardous air pollution

Tens of thousands of runners battled thick smog at the Beijing Marathon on Sunday, with some donning masks as the levels of PM2.5 small pollutant particles s...

www.youtube.com

 

[MacMadame]

No, but it proves you can spin and jump with a mask.

Well, it proves you can launch yourself in the air anyway. (Seriously, all but one of those "jumps" looked to me like the person doesn't actually know how to. )