Re-opening rinks with social distancing

Jozet

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,100
But but but my kid is never going to get to the NHL if all they do is practice and never play games!!!
😵
"It is true that your child will never get to the NHL. But that was always going to be the case."

:D

It's amazing that in lot of Euro countries where the model is more-practice/limited-games and in-town leagues (as opposed to CRAZY travel leagues), small regions are churning out near same percentages of NHL and pro players per population as the whole of USA or Canada. I think it was one of the Russian players from the 1980 Olympics (looking for article) pulled his grandkid from a USA hockey league because he said his 12yo was playing more games per season than he had as a pro in USSR.

I've said this before, but a down-season is going to be the best thing to happen to a lot of players, if they stick with it. Especially kids in the 9-13 yo golden "window of trainability" where they are primed to pick up finer skating and stick skills. Same goes for figure skaters. Once that window closes, it slams down hard and it's harder and harder to learn skills. Practice, practice, practice. Even for rec league skaters, this is a great opportunity, if people choose to see it that way.
 

Jozet

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,100
USFS has posted guidelines for competitions here: https://www.usfigureskating.org/news/article/considerations-competitions-and-events

Honestly, I don't see how any comp, much less Regionals, could be held under those recommendations...only using officials from in-state, limiting group and practice ice size, officials bring their own headsets, longer breaks between events to sanitize the judges stand. No locker room use. And the rec for not serving food to officials doesn't make a lot of sense....if there's no hospitality area, are judges supposed to crowd the snack bar with parents/skaters? Or drive to a restaurant and get takeout?

Judges and officials tend to skew older, and most aren't going to want to go to a comp in the foreseeable future anyway. There are a couple of national-level judges (1 is world-level) in my club who told one of our club officers that they don't want to go to any comps as long as the you-know-what is an issue.

And yes, USFS is indeed pushing responsibility to the clubs. Obviously, it's the club's choice to hold a comp, so yes, they take that responsibility, but clubs/comps are run by volunteers, who are not medical or public health experts. Who is going to manage the screening process and do the sanitizing?
Every club is going to need a solid attorney on the board.
 

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
219
One thing about the water bottles: If sessions are one hour or even 1.5 hours long there's zero risk of a skater becoming dangerously dehydrated if they can't stop to sip from a water bottle every 5-15 minutes. They should be properly hydrated before taking the ice. There's a zillion studies around hydration for distance runners/ distance races (who are exerting themselves at high levels for extended periods of time in what are usually much hotter conditions than inside a rink). Constant water drinking is psychological for most skaters while on the ice but completely unnecessary. Most of the water taken in during a session doesn't have time enough to empty from the stomach to do much good in terms of hydration/affecting performance. Drinking enough before stepping on the ice and taking a short water break off ice every 30 minutes or hour is more than enough.
 

Jozet

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,100
One thing about the water bottles: If sessions are one hour or even 1.5 hours long there's zero risk of a skater becoming dangerously dehydrated if they can't stop to sip from a water bottle every 5-15 minutes. They should be properly hydrated before taking the ice. There's a zillion studies around hydration for distance runners/ distance races (who are exerting themselves at high levels for extended periods of time in what are usually much hotter conditions than inside a rink). Constant water drinking is psychological for most skaters while on the ice but completely unnecessary. Most of the water taken in during a session doesn't have time enough to empty from the stomach to do much good in terms of hydration/affecting performance. Drinking enough before stepping on the ice and taking a short water break off ice every 30 minutes or hour is more than enough.
Printing this off for my husband who freaks out if my son isn't drinking an entire liter of Gatorade during a 1-hour hockey practice that is 30% standing around waiting your turn or listening to coaches give instructions.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
Messages
33,857
Printing this off for my husband who freaks out if my son isn't drinking an entire liter of Gatorade during a 1-hour hockey practice that is 30% standing around waiting your turn or listening to coaches give instructions.
He definitely shouldn't be drinking Gatorade if the workout is less than 60-90minutes. We all have enough calories in our glycogen stores for 60 minutes of intense exercise and well-trained athletes can get to a point where they can store 90 minutes worth. It just wasted calories and tons of sugar.
 

spinZZ

Member
Messages
64
One thing about the water bottles: If sessions are one hour or even 1.5 hours long there's zero risk of a skater becoming dangerously dehydrated if they can't stop to sip from a water bottle every 5-15 minutes. They should be properly hydrated before taking the ice. There's a zillion studies around hydration for distance runners/ distance races (who are exerting themselves at high levels for extended periods of time in what are usually much hotter conditions than inside a rink). Constant water drinking is psychological for most skaters while on the ice but completely unnecessary. Most of the water taken in during a session doesn't have time enough to empty from the stomach to do much good in terms of hydration/affecting performance. Drinking enough before stepping on the ice and taking a short water break off ice every 30 minutes or hour is more than enough.
OK, "severely dehydrated" in my previous post is going too far. But, at least in my case, sipping water every 10 min or so is definitely not pyschological: I drink whenever I get sufficiently thirsty (i.e., I don't intentionally pursue a timed regimen for water intake). So longer when I'm skating easy; shorter when I'm skating hard.

At the rinks I skate at, it's my observation that most serious skaters bring a water bottle with them and park it near the ice. I always keep a spare unopened bottle of water in my kit bag, and on occasion have given it to skaters who have forgotten their water bottle.

Would be interested in hearing from others on this point: Are you OK booking a 1 hr session if you can't park a water bottle near the ice? ETA: By "near the ice", I don't mean it has to be by the boards. The SCOB setup in which you can place items on tables or bleachers just off the ice would be fine with me (in contrast to the Park City setup in which you park items in the lobby).
 
Last edited:

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
219
If you are truly getting thirsty during an hour session on the ice you should consider hydrating much better during the hour before getting on the ice (and throughout the day). Everyone having a water bottle on the barrier is a relatively new phenomena- we didn't do this at all back in the 80s. I agree it's more pleasant to have one there (and when I skate at a rink that allows this I usually place one there) since my mouth can get dry, but going without a bottle within arm's length isn't creating some kind of health or performance issue. It just isn't. I can post a ton of actual clinical studies if you need them. If it is an issue some skaters can't get past which would stop them from skating in a rink with these safety safety controls in place there's always the option to carry a small plastic flask in a pocket or vest.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
Messages
33,857
When I skated (in the 90s and early 00s) I never brought a water bottle and I'd say that maybe only 25% had one on the boards. They did drink between sessions though.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
27,542
@spinZZ The air feels quite dry in the rinks I skate at. I'm not chugging water every five seconds, but I do feel like I need a drink of water (just a few swigs) about every 20 minutes. I certainly don't go through an entire bottle of water in an hour, because it's not...pleasant to be skating and jumping with a full bladder :eek:
 
Last edited:

overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
27,542
It's amazing that in lot of Euro countries where the model is more-practice/limited-games and in-town leagues (as opposed to CRAZY travel leagues), small regions are churning out near same percentages of NHL and pro players per population as the whole of USA or Canada. I think it was one of the Russian players from the 1980 Olympics (looking for article) pulled his grandkid from a USA hockey league because he said his 12yo was playing more games per season than he had as a pro in USSR.
Yes. And then those European kids get into the NHL and have much better skating and puck-handling skills, because they practiced much more than they played games.

I also recall reading that this whole North American subculture of $$$ specialty coaches (like goalie coach, position coach, shooting coach) is almost non-existent in other countries. If players get really specialized training in anything, it's in skating skills.

I've said this before, but a down-season is going to be the best thing to happen to a lot of players, if they stick with it. Especially kids in the 9-13 yo golden "window of trainability" where they are primed to pick up finer skating and stick skills. Same goes for figure skaters. Once that window closes, it slams down hard and it's harder and harder to learn skills. Practice, practice, practice. Even for rec league skaters, this is a great opportunity, if people choose to see it that way.
Yes. And the kids will probably also have much more fun than they are having now, travelling to endless away games, tournaments, camps, etc. etc.
 

spinZZ

Member
Messages
64
@spinZZ The air feels quite dry in the rinks I skate at. I'm not chugging water every five seconds, but I do feel like I need a drink of water (just a few swigs) about every 20 minutes. I certainly don't go through an entire bottle of an hour in the water, because it's not...pleasant to be skating and jumping with a full bladder :eek:
My situation is similar to yours. It's a combo of thirst and breathing dry air (especially heavy breathing through the mouth) that causes enough throat irritation that I drink some water (no big gulps either) every 10 min or so. If I don't, it does become uncomfortable enough to be distracting. I also need to be careful with my water intake prior to lessons. During drills on back cross-overs, my coach is constantly shouting out, "Squeeze your thighs together! Squeeze your thighs together!"
 

manhn

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,857
For a lot of NA ice hockey aspirants, it’s not just the lure of NHL. There are college scholarships on the line. Not sure college recruits have the reach to find Non-NA players.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Staff member
Messages
33,857
There are college scholarships on the line.
And that's important because college is damn expensive. Lots of parents steer their kids towards hobbies and sports that lead to college scholarships.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
22,921
An article I read today said that several Canadian amateur sports federations feel that responsibility - and liability - for avoiding the v*r*s is being pushed down to the individual team/club. And they are not happy about it, because they are not public health experts, as well as being volunteers who are already overworked. Also it could be very $$$$ for a club or team that got sued if someone caught the v*r*s at their facility or during one of their events.

One example is that the national amateur baseball federation has issued club guidelines for re-opening. The guidelines say the only people that can be in the dugout during a game are the team members and the coach(es). But the guidelines also say that each team is responsible for sanitizing the dugout before they leave. Obviously pre-teen or teenage kids and their parents are not experts on how to adequately clean a sports facility to get rid of any v*r*ses.
In Australia any volunteer organisation has certain health and safety obligations when they are an incorporated association. I assume that in the Canada, US and elsewhere that is the same. That is why here they have public liability insurance to cover for anything that happens under their auspices.

This is the Australian guidelines for volunteers - https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/book/essential-guide-work-health-and-safety-volunteers

So it really is no different to the current situation in terms of obligation. But the situation is now more amplified due to the risk posed by the *****.
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
Messages
22,921
@Aussie Willy that guide is great. There should be something like that everywhere.

Skate Canada has an section of its website re insurance, but it mostly seems to be concerned with injuries to skaters: https://info.skatecanada.ca/index.php/en-ca/?id=180:insurance-faq
It is pretty good. I have referred to it quite a bit and also shared it around. Most people when they are involved in the clubs and associations wouldn't be aware of the safety and legal responsibilities and accountabilities.
 

GarrAargHrumph

I can kill you with my brain
Messages
18,941
Would be interested in hearing from others on this point: Are you OK booking a 1 hr session if you can't park a water bottle near the ice? ETA: By "near the ice", I don't mean it has to be by the boards. The SCOB setup in which you can place items on tables or bleachers just off the ice would be fine with me (in contrast to the Park City setup in which you park items in the lobby).

I don't keep a water bottle at the boards. I usually skate an hour or more. So I'd be fine, yes.

As others have said, the water at the boards thing is relatively recent. In addition, my foreign coaches also tell me that, in their observation, it's an American thing (no idea if it's also Canadian.) One said he had to get used to the US expectation that you had to stop for breaks for water "every ten minutes", to quote him as he rolled his eyes dramatically.
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,656
I could be wrong but I always thought most marathon runners do most of their hydrating the day/night before and only a limited amount the day of for the reasons being shared here - needing to pee during your training or event is certainly not ideal.
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,656
Not sure if this was posted anywhere - went back a number of posts but haven't seen it - but looks like Cricket is opening - Conrad Orzel posted about being on his way to train.

Roman Sadovsky posted an eye-opening YouTube video about what some skaters might be facing in terms of economics. He was able to secure private ice but if only 4 skaters are allowed on the ice for the hour, you're dividing $350 - for one hour. Cost prohibitive, so his group rented a small private rink surface just to do some stroking. Half the price.

Economic realities going to be different country to country, region to region, rink to rink. Will be interesting to see how this is managed.
 

Lemonade20

Member
Messages
49
You're so right on that. Ice skating is already an expensive sport and the idea of limiting how many skaters can be on the ice means more $$$ to pony up per skater. It also means less time on the ice too, making it really difficult to plan and choreograph a new program.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
27,542
Here is the Skate Canada "return to play" protocol:


Interesting that the only groups that are approved to return are StarSkate (test-stream skaters), competitive skaters, and adults (yay!) No learn-to-skate or developmental programs. With only 10 people allowed on the ice at any time, I'm not sure how financially feasible this is going to be for some clubs.

There also seems to be a lot of reliance on volunteers to do things like verbal screening at the entrance and keeping skaters distanced while off the ice. Who is actually responsible for this this might depend on the rules of the facility as well. I don't see too much in the document about ensuring that any volunteers are adequately trained.

Personally, while I'm very happy that adults are one of the groups of skaters allowed to return, I'm going to wait and see if my rink reopens (it's part of a municipal facility that is currently closed) and what procedures are put in place by the city. It only takes one person not following the rules for a lot of people to get infected, and the facility with my rink is a very well-used facility.
 

concorde

Well-Known Member
Messages
328
Not sure if this was posted anywhere - went back a number of posts but haven't seen it - but looks like Cricket is opening - Conrad Orzel posted about being on his way to train.

Roman Sadovsky posted an eye-opening YouTube video about what some skaters might be facing in terms of economics. He was able to secure private ice but if only 4 skaters are allowed on the ice for the hour, you're dividing $350 - for one hour. Cost prohibitive, so his group rented a small private rink surface just to do some stroking. Half the price.

Economic realities going to be different country to country, region to region, rink to rink. Will be interesting to see how this is managed.
 

concorde

Well-Known Member
Messages
328
There was at least one rink near us (in Pennsylvania) that offered the $350/hour session. That rink was in a "RED" areas so if patrons were caught by local officials, they could be cited. As I told a coach, I may be a crazy skating mom but not crazy enough to risk jail time.

We decided to "move" to my parent's beach house in Florida for the summer. My daughter finally got to skate for the first time in 10 weeks. Boy did she have a HUGE smile on her face. For those that have yet to get back on the ice be warned, the ankles hurt after an hour. my daughter was warned this by another skater and she experienced the same.
 

Sk8yDad

New Member
Messages
13
I don't think it is likely that any child or parent will be put in jail for figure skating.
Law enforcement has a lot of other issues right now to deal with that are a bigger priority than skating in the "Red."

Our PA Governor and his Secretary of Health have the state so screwed up with their quarantine rules they put in place.
These rules included sending ********* positive Seniors back to nursing homes from hospitals so they could infect other residents. Our Secretary of Health knew this was a huge problem and moved her 95 year old mother from her nursing home to a hotel, The Hershey Lodge. This was done while implementing a policy of death to other senior nursing home residents. Most rational people do not have any confidence in the PA government any more on ********* issues. There have been an excess of 3000 nursing home deaths in PA from their incompetence.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 5, Guests: 6)

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information