Provisional allotments for ISU Championships 2022, 2023 & 2024; future bids discussion

[clairecloutier]

Wouldn’t be surprised to see them do 2026.

Why not 2025? That hadn’t been assigned yet, right?

 

[RoseRed]

Why not 2025? That hadn’t been assigned yet, right?

2024 is in Canada. Would they want to do two in North America back to back? They don't normally.

 

[clairecloutier]

2024 is in Canada. Would they want to do two in North America back to back? They don't normally.

Well, the ISU has had a number of back-to-back European Worlds since 2010, and at least one Asian back-to-back set, so I see no reason why a North American back-to-back should be impossible.

I think we’ve discussed this before and there were some other factors involved, but I don’t remember all the details.

But I would be somewhat surprised if the U.S. were to bid on a post-Olympic Worlds as their first Worlds in 10 years. I don’t really see that happening? My guess would be to see a bid for either 2025 or 2027.

 

[clairecloutier]

The ISU announced the Challenger Series events for 2022-23 season:

September 12-16, 2022 Lake Placid, USA (including Pair Skating)
September 16-19, 2022 Bergamo, ITA
September 21-242022 Oberstdorf, GER (including Pair Skating)
September 29-October 1, 2022 Bratislava, SVK
October 5-9, 2022 Espoo, FIN (including Pair Skating)
October 13-16, 2022 Budapest, HUN
October 26-29, 2022 Nur-Sultan, KAZ
November 9-13, 2022 Graz, AUT
November 17-20, 2022 Warsaw, POL (including Pair Skating)
December 7-10, 2022 Zagreb, CRO (including Pair Skating)

It's perhaps a bit of a surprise to see that U.S. International Classic (if it's called that again) will be in Lake Placid, rather than Norwood.

Also, the JGP that was scheduled for Croatia is moving to Grenoble, France.

Following the indication of the Croatian Skating Federation that it was no longer able to host the Junior Grand Prix Event (including Pair Skating) on September 28 - October 1, 2022 in Zagreb, and having reopened applications for this Event, the Council decided the Junior Grand Prix event (including Pair Skating) on September 28 - October 1, 2022 will be held in Grenoble, France.

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/28129-isu-communication-2466/file

 

[TanithandBenFan]

The ISU announced the Challenger Series events for 2022-23 season:

September 12-16, 2022 Lake Placid, USA (including Pair Skating)
September 16-19, 2022 Bergamo, ITA
September 21-242022 Oberstdorf, GER (including Pair Skating)
September 29-October 1, 2022 Bratislava, SVK
October 5-9, 2022 Espoo, FIN (including Pair Skating)
October 13-16, 2022 Budapest, HUN
October 26-29, 2022 Nur-Sultan, KAZ
November 9-13, 2022 Graz, AUT
November 17-20, 2022 Warsaw, POL (including Pair Skating)
December 7-10, 2022 Zagreb, CRO (including Pair Skating)

It's perhaps a bit of a surprise to see that U.S. International Classic (if it's called that again) will be in Lake Placid, rather than Norwood.

Also, the JGP that was scheduled for Croatia is moving to Grenoble, France.

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/28129-isu-communication-2466/file

Ughhhh I really wanted to go to Norwood this year. Lake Placid is such a PITA to get to.

 

[Colonel Green]

Ughhhh I really wanted to go to Norwood this year. Lake Placid is such a PITA to get to.

Why hold an event in an accessible location?

 

[Debbie S]

I might consider LP if gas prices aren't in the stratosphere. But I would want to see who's competing first.

But I would prefer SCOB. Or Leesburg. And while it might not be accessible for me, I imagine the skaters wouldn't mind traveling to Irvine. Seriously, USFS?

 

[clairecloutier]

I remember hearing that the Lake Placid ice arena was refurbished/renovated over the past year? That might be part of the reason that USFS chose it?

 

[Karen-W]

Folks here better accept that SkAm isn't going to the East Coast this year what with the US International Classic being in Lake Placid.

I am really glad to see that the US is hosting a Challenger this coming season, though. And it will be convenient for many Montreal-based dance and pairs teams.

 

[Debbie S]

The dates as listed (Sept 12-16) indicate that the comp is Monday through Friday. That seems odd. I wonder if that is an error. I can't take off an entire week of work so if those dates are correct, I'm out.

 

[Karen-W]

The dates as listed (Sept 12-16) indicate that the comp is Monday through Friday. That seems odd. I wonder if that is an error. I can't take off an entire week of work so if those dates are correct, I'm out.

Yeah, I'm thinking it's an error and that it's the weekend before, so there isn't an overlap with the Lombardia Trophy Challenger the following weekend.

I'm also impressed with the FFSG for stepping up, once again, to host a 2nd JGP event. I was really hoping we'd see it come to North America though.

 

[Frau Muller]

Ughhhh I really wanted to go to Norwood this year. Lake Placid is such a PITA to get to.

Oooo…I’m thrilled that it’s in Lake Placid - such a beautiful and historical spot in skating history!

 

[litenkyckling]

Why hold an event in an accessible location?

I truly feel the ISU need to stop doing this - so many of the European events are in cities that are so difficult to get to unless you're coming from a major city. (For example, even Montpellier worlds - direct flights for me were only available from London which is hundreds of miles away which meant so much more money and time off work (hence why it wasn't possible for me this time around).

I do genuinely believe that it is a major question for the ISU going forward - people are becoming much more environmentally concious travellers AND there is a huge cost of living crisis. If they want people in seats, and to grow the sport's watchership, they need to be in cities that are more easy to access for more people.

For example, I'd be far more inclined to go to an event in say, Paris, than Montpellier or Grenoble because not only are there many flights available, but it is feasble to get there by train in one day.

 

[Frau Muller]

I believe that the ISU wants eyeballs on the Peacock (TV sets or computer screens), not butts on seats. The most environmentally-sensitive way to watch is to stay home and tune into an event…not to gas-guzzle your way to an event.

 

[Karen-W]

I truly feel the ISU need to stop doing this - so many of the European events are in cities that are so difficult to get to unless you're coming from a major city. (For example, even Montpellier worlds - direct flights for me were only available from London which is hundreds of miles away which meant so much more money and time off work (hence why it wasn't possible for me this time around).

I do genuinely believe that it is a major question for the ISU going forward - people are becoming much more environmentally concious travellers AND there is a huge cost of living crisis. If they want people in seats, and to grow the sport's watchership, they need to be in cities that are more easy to access for more people.

For example, I'd be far more inclined to go to an event in say, Paris, than Montpellier or Grenoble because not only are there many flights available, but it is feasble to get there by train in one day.

I didn't get the impression that the skaters were too put out with having to travel through Paris or London or other major airports so that they could compete in the south of France for Worlds. They certainly loved the resort they were at and enjoyed the beach, pool, flamingos, and warm weather.

And, FWIW, while some of the FSUers did experience some travel woes, those would have happened regardless of the location (due to accidents on railways, transportation worker strikes, and understaffed airlines as tourism picks up post-pandemic).

 

[manhn]

Wasn't Worlds sold out? Even with Worlds in Japan, wasn't it in a city quite far away from Tokyo?

People complained about Canada's last Worlds being held in Not!London, but it will be in Montreal in 2024 (the express bus from the airport to Downtown is frequent but long).

Any rumours about Skate Canada and/or Skate America (and Canadians while I'm at it)? Is it common not to know the locations at this point?

 

[clairecloutier]

I truly feel the ISU need to stop doing this - so many of the European events are in cities that are so difficult to get to unless you're coming from a major city. (For example, even Montpellier worlds - direct flights for me were only available from London which is hundreds of miles away which meant so much more money and time off work (hence why it wasn't possible for me this time around).

I do genuinely believe that it is a major question for the ISU going forward - people are becoming much more environmentally concious travellers AND there is a huge cost of living crisis. If they want people in seats, and to grow the sport's watchership, they need to be in cities that are more easy to access for more people.

For example, I'd be far more inclined to go to an event in say, Paris, than Montpellier or Grenoble because not only are there many flights available, but it is feasble to get there by train in one day.

Some very good points here. The only thing I would say is that hotel rooms do tend to be significantly more expensive in big cities. OTOH, big cities are more likely to have good public transportation options.

One thing that I think would be helpful is to somehow highlight when good public transport does exist. For example, in Montpellier, the electric tram system turned out to be seemingly quite good and affordable. But when you're not from the area, it can be hard to understand when something is actually pretty accessible and frequent and useful (Montpellier tram system) versus not very frequent and less useful (commuter rail system in the Boston suburban area, for example).

 

[Colonel Green]

I truly feel the ISU need to stop doing this - so many of the European events are in cities that are so difficult to get to unless you're coming from a major city. (For example, even Montpellier worlds - direct flights for me were only available from London which is hundreds of miles away which meant so much more money and time off work (hence why it wasn't possible for me this time around).

I do genuinely believe that it is a major question for the ISU going forward - people are becoming much more environmentally concious travellers AND there is a huge cost of living crisis. If they want people in seats, and to grow the sport's watchership, they need to be in cities that are more easy to access for more people.

For example, I'd be far more inclined to go to an event in say, Paris, than Montpellier or Grenoble because not only are there many flights available, but it is feasble to get there by train in one day.

For a major event like Worlds I don’t think this is that big an issue. But having things like the Internationaux de France sequestered up in Grenoble rather than in Paris is a big blow to visibility.

 

[overedge]

Some very good points here. The only thing I would say is that hotel rooms do tend to be significantly more expensive in big cities. OTOH, big cities are more likely to have good public transportation options.

Venue/facility rentals are also likely to cost more in big cities, especially the venues that are downtown.

 

[manhn]

And events are very much reliant on volunteers. And they tend to live outside the big cities.

 

[skatfan]

Venue/facility rentals are also likely to cost more in big cities, especially the venues that are downtown.

That's the reason US Nationals and Skate America are often in 2nd tier cities - the venue costs (as well as sizes).

 

[MacMadame]

It's a trade-off. I think the cost of holding the event, what the event is like for the skaters and officials, and being able to get adequate volunteers is much more important than the impact on fans. It's nice to have full arenas but for events shown on tv, the audience sitting at home is much larger and isn't impacted by where the event is held.

 

[victorskid]

I remember hearing that the Lake Placid ice arena was refurbished/renovated over the past year? That might be part of the reason that USFS chose it?

I believe that the reason the event was moved away from Lake Placid had to do with the work that was being done on the arena over several years, this would appear to be just "moving it back".

 

[Debbie S]

I believe that the reason the event was moved away from Lake Placid had to do with the work that was being done on the arena over several years, this would appear to be just "moving it back".

The U.S. Classic has never been held in LP. It was in Salt Lake City for almost 10 years and then at SCOB last year. You may be thinking of the annual summer ice dance comp that has always been in LP, except for the past 2 years, due to Covid cancellation and then reno.

 

[litenkyckling]

I guess it's just me that finds the sport quite prohibitive to the fans then - but I still think these questions need to be asked. Yes, the audience isn't the most important part of the sport, but they are a big part of it. And I think we need to remember that audience = cash. I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who is under 30, on a reasonably low salary, living in a country that is expensive and in a city that isn't the best connected with the rest of Europe - I love the sport but I'm getting to the point where I'm accepting that going to a live event won't be on the cards for the forseeable for me.

While I understand that travel is never good for the environment, I think we'd all agree that a city that has a major transport hub means less flights for all including the athletes, coaches and judges. I also think that skaters seem to love sold out events, so maybe we need to make that more possible? If Hanyu retires, then will the Japanese audience still show up as they do? How much of the audience in Europe is made up of Russian fans? These are 2 things that will impact the possibility of selling out events, and making more money for the ISU and the feds.

As I said, maybe it's just an issue that is impacting me and I just assumed it was a general one

 

[Karen-W]

I believe that the reason the event was moved away from Lake Placid had to do with the work that was being done on the arena over several years, this would appear to be just "moving it back".

The event you're referring to is the Lake Placid Ice Dance International, which isn't the same event as the US Classic International. LPIDI is usually held in early August - last season it was held in conjunction with the 1st Annual Cranberry Cup at SCOB due to the ongoing renovations at the rink in Lake Placid. Last season, the US Classic International, which was not a Challenger Series event last season, was also held at SCOB, but was held it's usual weekend in mid-September. US Classic has been held at several different locations over the years, most notably in SLC, which prompted a lot of complaints about the effect of the altitude on the skaters.

 

[Frau Muller]

I guess it's just me that finds the sport quite prohibitive to the fans then - …

Au contraire. With live streaming, the sport has never been so accessible to fans!

 

[litenkyckling]

Au contraire. With live streaming, the sport has never been so accessible to fans!

I mean, what I was clearly making about a point about was the accessibility of attending live events?

 

[Finnice]

At the championships held in Europe, either Worlds or Europeans, the Russian are usually not a very big part of the audience. There are some, of course, but I guess that their absence will harm the championships in economically significant way.

 

[allezfred]

Even with Worlds in Japan, wasn't it in a city quite far away from Tokyo?

Err, no. Saitama is in a neighbouring prefecture to Tokyo. I commuted from central Tokyo to the venue (about 30-40 minutes by commuter train).

For a major event like Worlds I don’t think this is that big an issue. But having things like the Internationaux de France sequestered up in Grenoble rather than in Paris is a big blow to visibility.

On the contrary, the Internationaux de France gets lost in a city like Paris with so many other entertainment options. The last few IdF's in Grenoble were held in a much smaller arena, but the atmosphere was a lot better and people in Grenoble actually knew the IdF was happening.