Proposed tech requirement changes (ISU Congress June 2024)

[airgelaal]

Old school Gordeeva/Grinkov sequences.

Exactly. I think a lot of the old school elements can now be used as choreo elements.

Reducing the time happened after PyeongChang. I don't think there's any going back, because I think it had to do with broadcasting, not the skating.

I meant to reduce it even more.

 

[airgelaal]

Now the basis of pair skating is difficulty, not unison. We need to go back to basics.

 

[On My Own]

I meant to reduce it even more.

Got it.

I didn't mean I want ISU to impose required elements, btw. I was more wondering what skaters can fill it with. With reduced tech, hopefully it will be choreography and transitions. And with less restrictive tech, it's possible we will get different music, too, one that isn't basically just 'the Aether' to which skaters can do random moves and pretend it's musical.

 

[Ena Grins]

I'm becoming more and more in favor of getting rid of the SBS jumps in pairs entirely...so this is a step in the right direction for me. If a team can excel at all the other elements then I just don't care about the jumps.

 

[carriecmu0503]

I'm becoming more and more in favor of getting rid of the SBS jumps in pairs entirely...so this is a step in the right direction for me. If a team can excel at all the other elements then I just don't care about the jumps.

Without jumps, it’s ice dance. There’s going to be virtually no distinction between pairs and ice dance anymore, so why keep having two disciplines?

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Without jumps, it’s ice dance. There’s going to be virtually no distinction between pairs and ice dance anymore, so why keep having two disciplines?

We could just keep dance

 

[AYS]

Old school Gordeeva/Grinkov sequences.

It's nice to be reminded of the days when it was two shall skate as one - the best there ever was at that. The sport has really gotten away from that with current scoring structure.

 

[Karen-W]

We could just keep dance

I love pairs and want to see it kept. Having said that, I'd be fine with eliminating the SBS solo jump from the FS. We get that in the SP and don't need it again in the FS.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I love pairs and want to see it kept. Having said that, I'd be fine with eliminating the SBS solo jump from the FS. We get that in the SP and don't need it again in the FS.

Removing solo jumps from the pairs FS could definitely be interesting. I'd prefer if the pairs had more choices as to which pairs elements they can include in the FS. So a team could choose to do two death spirals or multiple choreo lifts or maybe an extra twist (if they were great at twists), etc. I think more differences between the pairs sp and the pairs fs could potentially help to revitalize the discipline.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Most of these changes are pretty MEH. I definitely don't want to see a third repetition of anything. Remember when there was no limit on 2As?

I don't think removing a lift would be good for pairs, but I like the suggestion of 2 leveled lifts and one "choreo" overhead lift.

 

[DreamSkates]

The only way I want to see a jump repeated a 3rd time is if there is a significant and visible variation on one of the 3. For example, put the flip and lutz in the same box, but give a skater credit for a 3rd version if one of the versions has a long BOE glide with a lutz takeoff.

Versions, yes.

 

[DreamSkates]

When might they consider adding points for a quint jump? Malinin can already do at least one, in practice. Would they wait for someone to do one in a competition, then consider? Surely they won't hold back skating because not everyone can do one of these jumps.
Note: almost everything in skating has an element of risk and danger, injury, etc. If a skater can do a quint, reward that.

 

[~tapdancer~]

It's nice to be reminded of the days when it was two shall skate as one - the best there ever was at that. The sport has really gotten away from that with current scoring structure.

I loved G&G but truly the best two shall skate as one was Tai and Randy. Especially that they were the same height (more or less). Modern pairs would benefit from watching both teams to see what pairs skating was designed to be.

 

[tony]

When might they consider adding points for a quint jump? Malinin can already do at least one, in practice. Would they wait for someone to do one in a competition, then consider? Surely they won't hold back skating because not everyone can do one of these jumps.
Note: almost everything in skating has an element of risk and danger, injury, etc. If a skater can do a quint, reward that.

I am 99.9% sure it’s not going to happen. At least any time in the very distant future.

Why would they wait for one person to do an illegal element in competition to then consider such? Also, women can do quads and it’s still not permitted in the short. Miki Ando ‘landed’ one 20+ years ago, for reference. Surya Bonaly almost landed one in 1990 and/or 1991.

 

[overedge]

When might they consider adding points for a quint jump? Malinin can already do at least one, in practice. Would they wait for someone to do one in a competition, then consider? Surely they won't hold back skating because not everyone can do one of these jumps.
Note: almost everything in skating has an element of risk and danger, injury, etc. If a skater can do a quint, reward that.

Skaters will go for whatever gets them the most points. I don't think it would be holding back the sport to add points for an almost unachievable element like this. All that will do is motivate skaters to try and get that element, even if it's genuinely beyond their physical capabilities. There's dangerous, and then there's too dangerous.

 

[gkelly]

Why not first add more opportunity to gain points through skills other than maximal rotations in the air?

Unless they really want to turn the sport into ice jumping.

 

[DreamSkates]

Why not first add more opportunity to gain points through skills other than maximal rotations in the air?

Unless they really want to turn the sport into ice jumping.

Seems it’s already mostly about jumping. It has been said by more than one person that footwork and spins are equally as difficult as jumps so why don’t they increase points for those elements?

 

[Willin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FigureSkating/comments/19fbykk/the_technical_committee_of_the_international/

Sina Visitor System

https://twitter.com/sundayspirals/status/1750503162866274518?s=20

Summary seems to be:

Singles: Six jump passes in LP, repeated jumps from 2 to 3 (eta: as in, a skater can repeat a jump thrice instead of twice as previously - adding for clarity), one "dance spin", 2 combos

Pairs: 3 lifts to 2, and remove solo jump.

6 Jumping passes leaves more room for other stuff - but what will they replace it with? Unless it's 6 solo jumps+2 combos?

I'm wholly in favor of removing solo jumps from pair's - not even the top teams can do them well and consistently. Focus more on throws and other pair elements.

Why not first add more opportunity to gain points through skills other than maximal rotations in the air?

Unless they really want to turn the sport into ice jumping.

They need to increase the BV of spins and steps. Steps are insanely hard and tiring - yet we see a lot of bad steps (even though they're still called) because they don't matter much - the jumps matter more. And because jumps matter more we're seeing some really, really bad spins this season. The younger skaters are focusing so much on jumps that spins/steps have fallen to the wayside.

 

[MacMadame]

We already have three or four repetitions of the fluptz.

Honestly, I'm at the point where I think they should be considered the same jump. And you can just have 2 of them regardless of whether you take off from an "outside" or an "inside" edge.

 

[On My Own]

6 Jumping passes leaves more room for other stuff - but what will they replace it with?

Why does it need to be replaced? This leaves more time for transitions and choreography.

 

[Marco]

I am 99.9% sure it’s not going to happen. At least any time in the very distant future.

Why would they wait for one person to do an illegal element in competition to then consider such?

I am not advocating for encouraging the 5toe considering the risks involved, but just for argument's sake, under IJS, there is (literally) no point in doing something that takes up a jumping pass quota but does not have points. So it is very much the other way round - unless IJS assigns some sort of base value for a 5toe (fair or not), no one would do it in competition.

 

[Karen-W]

I am not advocating for encouraging the 5toe considering the risks involved, but just for argument's sake, under IJS, there is (literally) no point in doing something that takes up a jumping pass quota but does not have points. So it is very much the other way round - unless IJS assigns some sort of base value for a 5toe (fair or not), no one would do it in competition.

So, uhm, why did Adam do a back flip in his Euros FS? There isn't anything stopping a skater from throwing in a quint if they want. They just won't get any points for it.

 

[On My Own]

BTW, about "illegal" element - seems ridiculous that you only get a 2 point deduction for something "illegal".

 

[Coco]

For pairs, and apologies if it has already been suggested, what about a base level jump series, similar to a choreo sequence, that is 2 or 3 jumps linked by steps and/or moves in the field? The emphasis would be on synchronicity.

 

[On My Own]

This is for tech elements, but I do want to bring up scoring as well in this thread. Seeing someone do a huge 3A and then falling on a 3S< in combo but getting -4.00 GOE (-5 factored on the 3A's BV) makes no sense to me. It needs to be deducted on the 3S<'s BV. The 3A was fantastic. That wasn't the problem.

 

[carriecmu0503]

This is for tech elements, but I do want to bring up scoring as well in this thread. Seeing someone do a huge 3A and then falling on a 3S< in combo but getting -4.00 GOE (-5 factored on the 3A's BV) makes no sense to me. It needs to be deducted on the 3S<'s BV. The 3A was fantastic. That wasn't the problem.

The GOE in combinations is always based on the combo's highest valued element. If that 3A+ 1eu+3S was cleanly landed, you would be mad that the GOE value was based on the 3S rather than the 3A. You can't have it both ways, which is why the GOE for a combo is based on the highest valued element because you only assign GOE for the element as a whole.

 

[On My Own]

You can't have it both ways, which is why the GOE for a combo is based on the highest valued element because you only assign GOE for the element as a whole.

I can 100% have it both ways

If a combo is well done overall, then it makes perfect sense to score it based off the highest BV element in the combo.

If you fall on part of the combo or make some other error, deduct GOE from that part of the combo.

 

[Hedwig]

What I would love would be a choreo jump (sequence). In pairs and singles. Like a delayed axel or a sequence like from Kielmann. Or a choreo double throw with then both partners doing a double toe as combo to the throw or sth.
I love jumps the best and there is so much creativity possible with it that is not being used at the moment.

 

[Hedwig]

And I would score the sbs jumps separately for each partner. And definitely keep them in pairs. They are the most exciting part including the throws IMO.

 

[peibeck]

I love pairs and want to see it kept. Having said that, I'd be fine with eliminating the SBS solo jump from the FS. We get that in the SP and don't need it again in the FS.

Maybe I'm confused, but pairs usually do two sets of sbs jumps in the FS. Is the proposal to eliminate all sbs in the FS, or just one of the two sets?

Two leveled lifts are fine by me. Pairs are currently often doing some non-overhead lifts as choreography or as a transition into another element right now anyway. Since the introduction of GOE the difficulty and "scariness" of lifts has definitely increased.

I definitely oppose repeating the same triple/quad jump 3 times in a free, especially if jumping passes are reduced from 7 to 6.