Proposed tech requirement changes (ISU Congress June 2024)

[On My Own]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FigureSkating/comments/19fbykk/the_technical_committee_of_the_international/

Sina Visitor System

https://twitter.com/sundayspirals/status/1750503162866274518?s=20

Summary seems to be:

Singles: Six jump passes in LP, repeated jumps from 2 to 3 (eta: as in, a skater can repeat a jump thrice instead of twice as previously - adding for clarity), one "dance spin", 2 combos

Pairs: 3 lifts to 2, and remove solo jump.

Well I like-love most ideas. The one I dislike is the repeated jumps being changed from 2 to 3, it's perfectly fine with how it is. 2 combos is fine, as long as they allow a 3 jump combo and eliminate euler combos and axel sequences as being valid.

Ever since Men's skating went from 4.5 minutes to 4, it's mostly encouraged empty skating. I hope to see this rejuvenate it a bit, while still encouraging high tech, which this will because people will find cleverer ways to maximize their layouts (+3Lo combos). Dance spin is fine because it's one person doing it as opposed to two people like in ID, and singles' skaters often hit better positions anyway.

 

[Karen-W]

I wonder if they'll increase the BVs of jumps and lifts to keep the record scores and PBs coming...

 

[thvu]

Singles: Six jump passes in LP, repeated jumps from 2 to 3 (eta: as in, a skater can repeat a jump thrice instead of twice as previously - adding for clarity), one "dance spin", 2 combos

Allowing skaters to repeat a jump 3 times sounds like a terrible idea. I don't want 3 out of 6 jumping passes in Mens Freeskates to become 4toes. I guess the ISU wants to further protect skaters that don't have all the triples. Sigh... I'm on board for the other changes.

Pairs: 3 lifts to 2, and remove solo jump.

I'm all for removing one of the solo jumps in the Free Skate, but keep 3 lifts. Maybe turn one into a non-leveled lift, but lifts in Pairs is the most iconic part of pairs skating.

Well I like-love most ideas. The one I dislike is the repeated jumps being changed from 2 to 3, it's perfectly fine with how it is. 2 combos is fine, as long as they allow a 3 jump combo and eliminate euler combos and axel sequences as being valid.

I don't see a problem with Euler combos. I just wish panels actually punished skaters who do stepovers instead of real eulers. I'm also okay with axel sequences staying, but it should be limited in that an axel jump should only be allowed as the 2nd OR 3rd jump in a combo/seq, not for both the 2nd and 3rd.

 

[overedge]

I agree with @thvu about the repeated jumps. I'd like to see the value of quads downgraded as well, so that skaters aren't motivated to only repeat quads.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'd rather see three lifts than the leveled footwork sequence in Pairs. They could change it to a choreo sequence, and it would take about 25% of the time and have a chance at it being interesting. For me it mostly hasn't been since they stopped doing those rink-long combinations of steps and small jumps about 100 years ago when I first started to watch skating.

 

[gkelly]

I'd rather see three lifts than the leveled footwork sequence in Pairs. They could change it to a choreo sequence, and it would take about 25% of the time and have a chance at it being interesting. For me it mostly hasn't been since they stopped doing those rink-long combinations of steps and small jumps about 100 years ago when I first started to watch skating.

The leveled footwork sequence is already in the pairs short program.

The free skate already has a choreo sequence only.

 

[Private Citizen]

Most of these are terrible ideas. What's to stop women from doing three triple lutz passes and three triple flip passes? If they're going to reduce the jumps to six, they should mandate that one pass must begin with one each of axel, lutz, flip, loop, salchow, and toe.

Pairs skaters are not going to have any incentive to train more than one solo jump.

 

[On My Own]

An euler is just an edge change, there's no reason for it to be credited as a three jump combo. It can be credited as a regular two jump combo. It also just looks hideous.

Axel sequences when done as three jump combos curl up hideously as well. Beyond that, it needs to be considered how some skaters who can't land combos can end up having better rhythm into axel sequences, a la Ashley Wagner.

Disagree on quads being devalued. It's still a sport, and this is already going to go a long way towards equalising the tes pcs ratio. And if they won't repeat quads, then they'll repeat the hardest triple, what is the logic there?

Pairs skaters are not going to have any incentive to train more than one solo jump.

They'll still have to figure out their best combo.

 

[Private Citizen]

They'll still have to figure out their best combo.

This will basically turn 3T+2A+2A into a required element. If they do make this change, I hope they at least limit the pairs to two jumps in the combination (v. three) and do away with the axel option. A pair's individual jumping skills should not be judged solely on their ability to put two double axels on the end of a jump.

 

[Coco]

The only way I want to see a jump repeated a 3rd time is if there is a significant and visible variation on one of the 3. For example, put the flip and lutz in the same box, but give a skater credit for a 3rd version if one of the versions has a long BOE glide with a lutz takeoff.

 

[On My Own]

This will basically turn 3T+2A+2A into a required element. If they do make this change, I hope they at least limit the pairs to two jumps in the combination (v. three) and do away with the axel option. A pair's individual jumping skills should not be judged solely on their ability to put two double axels on the end of a jump.

Pairs and singles are two different disciplines. Keeping the combo and ditching the solo jump makes sense because it's a better test of synchronicity, not because pairs skaters are meant to be excellent jumpers.

I am fine with excluding axel sequences as combos.

Agree with thvu on lifts.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Pairs and singles are two different disciplines. Keeping the combo and ditching the solo jump makes sense because it's a better test of synchronicity, not because pairs skaters are meant to be excellent jumpers.

I am fine with excluding axel sequences as combos.

Agree with thvu on lifts.

I’d prefer that they ditch the combo and force the SBS jumps to be IN UNISON.

 

[zigzig]

LEAVE THE JUMPS ALONE and unlevel all the other elements

(basically a return to 6.0 skating )

 

[Vagabond]

According to Elaine Zayak is already training for her next comeback.

 

[NinjaTurtles]

Sounds like trying to stack the deck towards more clean skates.

Reduce a jumping passing to allow for more in between element feasibility and creativity, sure. But allowing a third repetition is crazy. I swear the loop is going to go extinct one day.

I can get down with an unleveled spin.

 

[Rukia]

I love the unleveled spin give me beautiful spinssssss

 

[kwanfan1818]

We already have three or four repetitions of the fluptz.

 

[On My Own]

I’d prefer that they ditch the combo and force the SBS jumps to be IN UNISON.

OK - still a better way to test that is combos.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

OK - still a better way to test that is combos.

Only if the judges reward quality over difficulty.

 

[Private Citizen]

We already have three or four repetitions of the fluptz.

Sometimes five or even six - e.g., two quad flips, two triple flips, and a triple lutz from the Eteri girls. I don’t think anyone has actually done six, but I could be wrong!

 

[On My Own]

Sometimes five or even six - e.g., two quad flips, two triple flips, and a triple lutz from the Eteri girls. I don’t think anyone has actually done six, but I could be wrong!

Anna Shcherbakova used to do 4F, 4Lz x 2 and 3F, 3Lz x 2, 2A, I think? So six flooptz and 1 "axel".

 

[taz'smum]

With the new removal of the SBS jump in pairs, we are well on our way to the merger of dance and pairs into one discipline!

• Dance lifts have been relaxed to allow lifts above the shoulders.
• Spins in dance & pairs are now indistinguishable.
• Jumps are being introduced into dance with the assisted jump.
• Compulsory dances are all but history.
• Deep edges, pointed toes, and neat feet are no longer rewarded in dance.

The edges are really starting to blur between the 2 disciplines!

 

[On My Own]

The edges are really starting to blur between the 2 disciplines!

The edges wink wink

 

[airgelaal]

I’d prefer that they ditch the combo and force the SBS jumps to be IN UNISON.

I'd prefer choreo jump sequence in unison

 

[airgelaal]

Pairs: 3 lifts to 2, and remove solo jump.

If the goal is to get more skaters interested in pair skating, then I like it.

 

[On My Own]

If the goal is to get more skaters interested in pair skating, then I like it.

What do you think they'll fill the remaining time with?

Pairs also went from 4.5 minutes in the LP to 4 minutes, so this makes perfect sense to me. Sui/Han were probably the only team for whom it seemed like it didn't matter, but it was still too many elements. I would definitely hope they drop a jumping pass. Lifts seem fine as 3 to me, but maybe they should do an 'unleveled lift' there as well in addition to 2 leveled lifts. That might make it okay.

Of course, I continue to await the separation of TES and PCS panels.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I'd prefer choreo jump sequence in unison

Old school Gordeeva/Grinkov sequences.

 

[airgelaal]

What do you think they'll fill the remaining time with?

Good question. But I’m not sure that reducing the time is a good solution. This is something to think about. Perhaps they can add another choreo sequence, but using elements without a level (jumps, lifts, throws, twists, spins, death-spirals)

 

[On My Own]

But I’m not sure that reducing the time is a good solution.

Reducing the time happened after PyeongChang. I don't think there's any going back, because I think it had to do with broadcasting, not the skating.

 

[Hedwig]

3 repetitions of the same jump is crazy. I would have gone in a different direction and demanded one edge and one toe jump per SP

Two lifts and more sbs jumps in pairs would be my solution. And the lifts to be devalued so that they are less dangerous. A choreo lift would be great.