Paul Wylie, former figure skating medalist, on why the Olympics still matter

[Cleo1782]

That's one way to look at it, but basically, Todd was going before Nationals even started.

There was no true BOW consideration back then, so the judges saw to it that Paul edged out Mark due to his BOW. That's my guess, anyway.

But it would be on placement at that time. Right or wrong, Paul was 2nd. Mark was 3rd.
It isn't a BOW argument because Paul qualified on his own

 

[Simone411]

OMG...that spiral into 3f!

ITA!! Paul also skated at the 1995 Vail Skating Festival, and he still had those amazing jumps and spiral.

Paul Wylie - Prelude Fugue and Riffs

 

[Coco]

But it would be on placement at that time. Right or wrong, Paul was 2nd. Mark was 3rd.

You're right, I think some of us are just thinking that in giving their marks, the judges let each skaters' history influence their decisions. They were judging more than the skate.

 

[Cleo1782]

You're right, I think some of us are just thinking that in giving their marks, the judges let each skaters' history influence their decisions. They were judging more than the skate.

Agreed. But it isn't a BOW argument per se because Paul outright qualified. Mark perhaps should have qualified with his skating that day, but again if we would go off of BOW Paul would have beaten him regardless. The 3rd place qualifier was going to be bumped anyhow, so everyone knew going in.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Wylie was a popular skater frequently shown on tv and sent to many international competitions. He wasn't remotely "unheralded".

Well, yes and no.

Don't get me wrong. I love Paul's skating more than anyone. I just don't think he earned silver over Mark.

I'll need to dig up my old copy of Blades on Ice Olympic Preview again. From memory, Paul wasn't considered one of the podium picks leading into Albertville.

The USFSA really played Devil's Advocate that season with the men's podium in Orlando. They really should have had medal favourites in Bowman and Eldredge. I don't think anyone could have predicted that Olympic outcome.

At the end of the day, Paul created a very special moment for himself.

Here's hoping Adam can prove to everyone he is worthy of his Olympic selection and place in the top ten, too.

 

[MacMadame]

Don't get me wrong. I love Paul's skating more than anyone. I just don't think he earned silver over Mark.

Which is a different point altogether.

I'll need to dig up my old copy of Blades on Ice Olympic Preview again. From memory, Paul wasn't considered one of the podium picks leading into Albertville.

I remember features about him that considered him a contender.

 

[Cleo1782]

Well, yes and no.

Don't get me wrong. I love Paul's skating more than anyone. I just don't think he earned silver over Mark.

I'll need to dig up my old copy of Blades on Ice Olympic Preview again. From memory, Paul wasn't considered one of the podium picks leading into Albertville.

The USFSA really played Devil's Advocate that season with the men's podium in Orlando. They really should have had medal favourites in Bowman and Eldredge. I don't think anyone could have predicted that Olympic outcome.

At the end of the day, Paul created a very special moment for himself.

Here's hoping Adam can prove to everyone he is worthy of his Olympic selection and place in the top ten, too.

Compared to Chris and Todd? Yes, Wylie was unheralded. But Wylie always had that aura of if he could pull it all together he would be in the mix for medals. He did it when it count.

 

[berthesghost]

Compared to Chris and Todd? Yes, Wylie was unheralded. But Wylie always had that aura of if he could pull it all together he would be in the mix for medals. He did it when it count.

How I remember it is Paul immediately had buzz as the next big thing after Boitano but instead got eclipsed by younger bowman and even younger Todd until by 92 despite being a 5 time consecutive nat medalist had this almost “oh him again” aspect to him. That’s why finally putting an oly medal to 11 years of hype and dispointment was so sweet.

Paul won jr worlds in 81 and took silver behind Brian in 88. Chris won jr worlds in 83 and took bronze behind Brian and Paul in 88 but by 89 he was nat champ and world medalist not Paul. Todd won jr worlds in 88 and by 90 was nat champ and 91 world medalist. Paul beating them both in Albertville was both unexpected and vindicating for all those who believed in him while others wrote him off.

 

[aftershocks]

Wylie was a popular skater frequently shown on tv and sent to many international competitions. He wasn't remotely "unheralded".

Yes, I agree with you in the sense that Paul was very talented, and he'd won junior Worlds. But how Paul was viewed prior to winning the silver medal at the Olympics was complicated by the fact that he had often struggled with his nerves in important major competitions (particularly Worlds) before achieving his ultimate Olympic triumph. The 1992 Olympics cemented Paul's success and increased his confidence immensely. And he was fortunate to be able to segue into a productive, lucrative, and growth-expanding pro career.

And so have been all of Paul's many fans: so lucky and blessed to witness his skating!

 

[aftershocks]

There was no true BOW consideration back then, so the judges saw to it that Paul edged out Mark due to his BOW

Not that simple, because as you note: there was no true BOW consideration back then. Plus if you check the Paul vs Mark stats, as I outlined in a previous post on page 1, there's only a slight edge Paul has in results up to 1992. Overall, career-wise: Mark placed better at Worlds in his two appearances ('92 and '93) than Paul did in his three appearances. For the few international comps they participated in back then, the results are nearly a wash with Paul having a slight edge, but Paul is also about 3 1/2 years* older than Mark (similar to the age difference between Mark and younger Todd). *Corrected

The harsh double whammy for Mark is that he did not get to go to the Olympics largely because of a medical bye issue, and he was also denied his first earned chance to go to Worlds due to the medical bye given to Christopher Bowman. Mostly, I think the selection for Paul* when he hadn't skated well at '92 Nationals is because he was older, more popular, and more connected politically in addition to being very talented. As well, it was likely considered by the selection committee that Mark would have other chances.

IMO, the double whammy Mark was served as an excellent medal-winning skater, makes what happened to his talented students over the years, especially and most recently Ross, so very hard to take.

*Meanwhile, I'm certainly very happy that Paul did go to the 1992 Olympics. I was happy for Paul at the time too. But I was also very sad for Mark. I loved them both and their skating a lot more at the time than I did Todd's. It was later that I came to appreciate and enjoy Todd's skating. Todd's character and personality have always been A+.

ETA:
I remember being upset when Paul didn't win 1990 and 1991 U.S. Nationals, when he came so close. So, it's not as if the U.S. judges tended to favor Paul.

 

[MacMadame]

Paul beating them both in Albertville was both unexpected and vindicating for all those who believed in him while others wrote him off.

As a Wylie fan, it was a sweet moment.

 

[gkelly]

Not that simple, because as you note: there was no true BOW consideration back then.

Because the top finishers were usually named to the team at the time, with the last medalist bumped in cases such as a recent world medalist missing Nationals, the thought was that judges might have fudged the results in order to get the skater they thought would do better internationally into the higher placement at Nationals.

Did they? Who knows? Only the judges on that panel, if they remember their motivations. It's also possible enough of them honestly thought Wylie skated better than Mitchell at that Nationals. Fans or journalists speculating about the motivations is just speculation.

Paul is also 9 years older than Mark.

4 years (more like 3 1/2):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wylie
Paul Stanton Wylie (born October 28, 1964)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Mitchell_(American_figure_skater)
Mark Mitchell (born May 2, 1968)

 

[aftershocks]

Because the top finishers were usually named to the team at the time, with the last medalist bumped in cases such as a recent world medalist missing Nationals, the thought was that judges might have fudged the results in order to get the skater they thought would do better internationally into the higher placement at Nationals.

Did they? Who knows? Only the judges on that panel, if they remember their motivations. It's also possible enough of them honestly thought Wylie skated better than Mitchell at that Nationals. Fans or journalists speculating about the motivations is just speculation.

4 years (more like 3 1/2):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wylie
Paul Stanton Wylie (born October 28, 1964)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Mitchell_(American_figure_skater)
Mark Mitchell (born May 2, 1968)

Thanks so much for the age difference corrections to my faulty math. I previously checked the birthdates for Todd, Mark, and Paul and weirdly got it all mixed up or misread somehow. No excuse at all, even despite math not being my strong point! I apologize, as I can't fix my first post regarding the age differences, but I will adjust the second.

Thanks also for expressing your opinions and points of view regarding the other debated topics in this thread.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Olympic dreams are all about timing. Sometimes there are only very small windows of opportunity. Especially when there are two talented skaters like Mark and Paul to pick from.

However, I really can't see how Paul was considered a serious medal contender leading into the Albertville Olympics.

Great competitive and great artistic skaters can sometimes exist at opposite ends of the spectrum. However in the era of profitable pro skating, to be successful at the latter, it mostly took doing well at the former, to be noticed and to get there.

Yes, Paul was a lovely skater to watch. But, with his history of extremely poor short program performances at the world level, that delight was mixed with a huge degree of discomfort. Case in point was when Wylie finished on the knife edge of qualification at the 1991 World Championships, in 20th place. His short and free program performances in Orlando did nothing to support Olympic medal contention, either.

A further point of frustration, was that he would virtually skate clean during practice sessions. ABC commentator, Jim McKay, even had a name for it, 'morning glory', a term applied to horse racing.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the Albertville Olympics were poorly skated in the men's event for various reasons across the board.

I was amazed (and relieved) more than anyone, that Paul skated a career - defining short program in Albertville, backing it up with a solid free skate, and going on to a fantastic pro career.

Maybe he went in with the mind-set, knowing it would be his last amateur competition, it had to be all or nothing.

Seeing his triumph makes me wonder how nervous but hugely talented skaters like Gracie Gold and Emmanuel Sandhu would have benefited from having him as a mentor.

 

[aftershocks]

Maybe he went in with the mind-set, knowing it would be his last amateur competition, it had to be all or nothing.

Yes, and it was a dream to be at the Olympics too. At least Paul was lucky to nab that opportunity. I think Ross treated U.S. Nationals this season similarly -- he gave it his all in his final Nationals competition, in both programs. Moments and emotions that Ross will never forget. ETA: And neither will his fans!