Papadakis/Cizeron: Latin dances always look "cheap and cliche"

[supergirl573]

It always kills me how people accuse V/M of copping P/C style when
a. Before they came back, people accused V/M of only doing romantic programs like that and having no range
b. It's not even a style P/C developed independently - it's a style that their coaches use and they use it on pretty much everyone that they do choreography for

 

[sap5]

What do people mean when they talk about P/C's "style"? What is the style? Gliding? Lyrical-contemporary? Are these things that can actually belong just to one team such that any other team that does it is copying?

 

[kittysk8ts]

What do people mean when they talk about P/C's "style"? What is the style? Gliding? Lyrical-contemporary? Are these things that can actually belong just to one team such that any other team that does it is copying?

Yes, all of those things plus more hand to hand holds and 2 foot skating. Haha. All kinds of teams have adopted this style.

 

[Karpenko]

V/M are not trying to copy anything. You forget that it's not just P/C's style, it's Dubreuil's style in which she choreographs for all her teams. P/C also had a different style before going to Dubreuil/Lauzon. Besides, as for V/M, they had several exhibition programs in a similar (lyrical contemporary) style before their latest FD. They had the first of those exhibitions even before the 2013/2014 season (skating it in the spring and summer shows) - that is, before P/C acquired that style.

This is what makes all of the and over P/C needing to grow as artists a bit redundant and silly. Especially over a comment about one dance they don't like as much on the ice as the floor.

Marie France choreographs for both V/M and P/C, and she let P/C come to her with very different music than anybody has used in ice dance.. and yet P/C don't want to grow and keep doing the same thing. She does the programs and has the final say, she says "yes" or "no" to their suggestions, or she has her own ideas for them.

I love all of Marie-France's material and everything about her.. but maybe your irritability is best spent at her over this "one-note" argument?

 

[MAXSwagg]

Always kills me when I can read howa skater can trash something about their sport but GAWD FORBID, a fan of that discipline for almost 30 years can't have an opinion about it.

Sorry but IMO, that opinion is flocked up.

You can have whatever opinion you want, darling. And I and anyone else can agree or disagree with it, and express their agreement or disagreement as well. In the end, I don't really care one way or the other. It's just dance. I like it when some good teams come along (DomShab, V/M, P/C) but I won't pay to go to a competition just because of dance. It just always makes me laugh, the entertainment spectacle, of the goofy-minded thoughts hardcore dance fans have.

 

[aftershocks]

If Scott Moir had made the same comments he would be ripped to shreds and years later people would still complain about it but with P/C it's obviously just a preference/opinion

Why not give Scott Moir a break? Scott simply does not deserve to be brought into this negativity!

Lol I thought this was one of those spoof threads.

And yes, it's the off-season.

 

[barbarafan]

This is what makes all of the and over P/C needing to grow as artists a bit redundant and silly. Especially over a comment about one dance they don't like as much on the ice as the floor.

Marie France choreographs for both V/M and P/C, and she let P/C come to her with very different music than anybody has used in ice dance.. and yet P/C don't want to grow and keep doing the same thing. She does the programs and has the final say, she says "yes" or "no" to their suggestions, or she has her own ideas for them.

I love all of Marie-France's material and everything about her.. but maybe your irritability is best spent at her over this "one-note" argument?

I am sure P&C with Marie-France will come up with some music that really makes them feel like dancing to it and it will be different and will look & feel great. It won't be exactly what is done on the floor but it will look great. Hope we get to see little clips once they get going.

 

[arakwafan2006]

Having the strong personality that is not afraid to take risks comes with a double edged sword. On one hand Gabby is not afraid to take risks artistically. On the other side, she's opinionated and a strong enough of a woman to not bite her tongue. For the handful of butt hurt people she supposedly pissed off, i'm so glad she's not some useless media puppet. I'm happy that shared her true opinion without caring about hurting peoples feelings, namely, non Ice Dancers. I see nothing wrong.

It amazes me how inconsistent people are. Adam Rippon just lets it all hang out on the ice etc. people are drooling over how liberated he is. Gabby says what she says which most people agree with and those same people are reaching for the biggest stone to throw. I've gleaned from Gabby's social media that she's well aware that she's a bit eccentric and embraces it and even attributes some of it to her grandmother. She's a two time World Champion and partially responsible for quite frankly making Ice Dance take a quantum leap forward artistically while remaining true to good dance skill and keeping Ice dancing just that. She can say whatever she want's and i'm glad she did

 

[angi]

Having the strong personality that is not afraid to take risks comes with a double edged sword. On one hand Gabby is not afraid to take risks artistically. On the other side, she's opinionated and a strong enough of a woman to not bite her tongue. For the handful of butt hurt people she supposedly pissed off, i'm so glad she's not some useless media puppet. I'm happy that shared her true opinion without caring about hurting peoples feelings, namely, non Ice Dancers. I see nothing wrong.

It amazes me how inconsistent people are. Adam Rippon just lets it all hang out on the ice etc. people are drooling over how liberated he is. Gabby says what she says which most people agree with and those same people are reaching for the biggest stone to throw. I've gleaned from Gabby's social media that she's well aware that she's a bit eccentric and embraces it and even attributes some of it to her grandmother. She's a two time World Champion and partially responsible for quite frankly making Ice Dance take a quantum leap forward artistically while remaining true to good dance skill and keeping Ice dancing just that. She can say whatever she want's and i'm glad she did

Who are all of those people you refer to when you say "Gabby says what she says which most people agree with"?
And how does Adam Rippon have something to do with this?
Gabby is allowed to be a strong and opinionated young lady and it's admirable, but her comments showed little respect to the Latin dances that were performed by other teams throughout the years when she called them "cheap and cliche" and it's ok to call her on it, no one is throwing stones at her, people are just stating that it's seen as disrespecting the history of the sport.
Also, the amount of credit you are giving her for being "partially responsible for quite frankly making Ice Dance take a quantum leap forward artistically" after only 3 seasons competing as senior is again diminishing the real contribution other teams have had on the sport of ice dance through the 34 years it's been a sport. Not to mention that let's get real here - the sport have not changed that much since 2014...

 

[sap5]

Having the strong personality that is not afraid to take risks comes with a double edged sword. On one hand Gabby is not afraid to take risks artistically. On the other side, she's opinionated and a strong enough of a woman to not bite her tongue. For the handful of butt hurt people she supposedly pissed off, i'm so glad she's not some useless media puppet. I'm happy that shared her true opinion without caring about hurting peoples feelings, namely, non Ice Dancers. I see nothing wrong.

It amazes me how inconsistent people are. Adam Rippon just lets it all hang out on the ice etc. people are drooling over how liberated he is. Gabby says what she says which most people agree with and those same people are reaching for the biggest stone to throw. I've gleaned from Gabby's social media that she's well aware that she's a bit eccentric and embraces it and even attributes some of it to her grandmother. She's a two time World Champion and partially responsible for quite frankly making Ice Dance take a quantum leap forward artistically while remaining true to good dance skill and keeping Ice dancing just that. She can say whatever she want's and i'm glad she did

Nobody is being inconsistent. Scott Moir said "I hate this event" *5 years ago* and people still haven't let it go. And at the time he was a two time World Champion and the Olympic champion. I'm hoping Gabi can continue the high standard he has set.

 

[mollymgr]

I like that Gabi expresses her opinions freely. I agree with her somewhat. No matter what you do, Latin looks garish and dancing on the ice doesn't look quite as good as it does on the floor. But that being said, I think it looks garish on the floor too because that's the nature of most latin dances- fiery and flamboyant. There are some great ice dance teams that excel at Latin and while it might not look as good on the floor, they come extremely close to making them look authentic. But this is ice dance and if it weren't for doing all kinds of dances on the ice, why even have a discipline called that? Not everyone is going to be good at everything. As far as the short dance is concerned, it is meant to dampen the creativity to some extent. They tried to find a happy medium when they eliminated the CDs. This is a sport so if I use an analogy for a short dance, it would be like a tennis player having to play on different surfaces like grass, clay or hard courts.

 

[Twilight1]

You can have whatever opinion you want, darling. And I and anyone else can agree or disagree with it, and express their agreement or disagreement as well. In the end, I don't really care one way or the other. It's just dance. I like it when some good teams come along (DomShab, V/M, P/C) but I won't pay to go to a competition just because of dance. It just always makes me laugh, the entertainment spectacle, of the goofy-minded thoughts hardcore dance fans have.

And it always kills me when someone doesn't know shyte about it mocks said fans.

I watch skating for ice dance. Too bad if your smallminded brain doesn't understand that.

 

[Asli]

We are so lucky that at the moment there are TWO teams of the quality of Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir. This is really rare and I am keeping my fingers crossed that both teams stay healthy and give us a magnificient rivalry during the olympic season.

Isn't this what we want from the sport? Anyone who tries to belittle one of these all-time best teams for some absurd excuse of a reason can't be an ice dance fan. That is the truth!

 

[Areski]

It always kills me how people accuse V/M of copping P/C style when
a. Before they came back, people accused V/M of only doing romantic programs like that and having no range
b. It's not even a style P/C developed independently - it's a style that their coaches use and they use it on pretty much everyone that they do choreography for

It baffles & annoys me so much as well.

 

[cocotaffy]

It always kills me how people accuse V/M of copping P/C style when
a. Before they came back, people accused V/M of only doing romantic programs like that and having no range
b. It's not even a style P/C developed independently - it's a style that their coaches use and they use it on pretty much everyone that they do choreography for

It's because people are confusing the atmosphere/music/contemporary feel of those "Montreal/MFD" programs and P/C very personal and unique way of moving on the ice. If when people say V/M is trying to emulate P/C style, they're talking about the former, indeed those type of programs existed before P/C even if I would argue MFD brought it to another level. However if they mean the latter, then that is what I would call the P/C style: a specific way of moving as well as a unique take on partnering IMO. In that, I mean with P/C you don't get the classic ID step-up: the guy is a stem in charge of showing of the woman aka the flower. The way their bodies interact with each other is quite new fresh and interesting; they move nearly the same way yet with a distinct physicality, constantly intermingling yet also going different way doing their own things independently of each other nearly like single skaters.
So, V/M is definitely not trying to copy P/C style but they did mold into the MFD style with their FD. They don't copy P/C because they don't need to, they have such a strong identity of their own with a partnership fitting more the stem/flower approach. Moir did say his job is to make her shine (actually she really doesn't need it IMO, she's been killing it this season if anything she should help him to shine a bit more ). They also have a very different way of gliding and moving their upper body, more dynamic, more together, more in the ice.
The day we'll see ice dancers moving like Guillaume and partnership fitting the aforementioned description then those teams will be indeed trying to copy P/C style.
On the cheap and cliche thing, I wonder if they were being ironic dancing this bit on Cheap Thrills from Sia

 

[princeton123]

Do people think they look good dancing that 'Cheap Thrills' bit? I was kind of taken aback when they posted it because they both look so awkward and uncomfortable dancing this style. Surprisingly, I think Guillaume struggles much more than Gabriella in this clip.

 

[Asli]

Do people think they look good dancing that 'Cheap Thrills' bit? I was kind of taken aback when they posted it because they both look so awkward and uncomfortable dancing this style. Surprisingly, I think Guillaume struggles much more than Gabriella in this clip.

Indeed, this style is as un-French as it gets. When I first moved here I was amazed by how French women are able to walk while holding their hips absolutely still. Of course in my native Turkey we sway like in that video. A Mexican friend of mine felt the same. She said: "How can they be so stiff? At home, when a woman walks, everything moves."

 

[MAXSwagg]

And it always kills me when someone doesn't know shyte about it mocks said fans.

I watch skating for ice dance. Too bad if your smallminded brain doesn't understand that.

Again, I don't care what you watch or what you think. Just because i'm not passionate about that discipline doesn't mean I don't know "shyte" about it. I've shown myself to be very kind to you and you've pretty much just given me a big F you. You don't have to be vicious. Unbelievable how easily specific people can get so jumped up on here over nothing...

 

[sap5]

Indeed, this style is as un-French as it gets. When I first moved here I was amazed by how French women are able to walk while holding their hips absolutely still. Of course in my native Turkey we sway like in that video. A Mexican friend of mine felt the same. She said: "How can they be so stiff? At home, when a woman walks, everything moves."

In many cultures, swinging hips is what is most desired. As always, people adapt to what is demanded.

 

[sap5]

Moir did say his job is to make her shine (actually she really doesn't need it IMO, she's been killing it this season if anything she should help him to shine a bit more ).

That would never happen as that is not at all their style.

ETA: I think this past year was the first time he's ever called so much attention to himself, what with the hair and deep v-neck during the SD. Usually he tries to stay as far into the background as he can get.

 

[chapis]

In many cultures, swinging hips is what is most desired. As always, people adapt to what is demanded.

I have understood that the movement of women's hips when walking is due to the anatomy of the hip and its joints, the hips of men are different, so they struggle a lot to imitate that movement.

 

[Areski]

Are you saying you want Gabrielle and Guillaume to stop thinking and to just move their bodies, shake their bodies, hot?

I guess I must have bad taste as I actually like this dance from Navka / Kostomarov ... Maybe my guilty pleasure? It was one of the best that season IIRC. If I were to choose between bland & over the top I choose over the top.

But it's still not something that I tend to rewatch.

 

[DaiKozOda]

I guess I must have bad taste as I actually like this dance from Navka / Kostomarov ... Maybe my guilty pleasure? It was one of the best that season IIRC. If I were to choose between bland & over the top I choose over the top.

But it's still not something that I tend to rewatch.

Don't worry Areski. I love that OD by diva Navka and Kostomarov and I won't apologize for it

 

[Areski]

Don't worry Areski. I love that OD by diva Navka and Kostomarov and I won't apologize for it

I noticed that most people either don't care for Navka / Kostomarov or actively dislike them. I do wonder what people thought of them back in 2006 ... they're like Lysaceks of Ice Dance.

 

[Jeanne7]

Well, I suspect that when Gabby & Guillaume actually dance their Latin short, they'll kill it, and I can't wait to see that. Gabby's right - a lot of past Latin ice dance programs have been awful, with hideously tacky costumes. Except for Virtue and Moir, who absolutely rock Latin!

 

[lauravvv]

ETA: I think this past year was the first time he's ever called so much attention to himself, what with the hair and deep v-neck during the SD. Usually he tries to stay as far into the background as he can get.

I disagree. Yes, Moir did not have the hair etc. before, but hair, clothes and looks in general are not the only things that draw attention towards the male partner (or the female partner, for that matter). Moir's acting skills were already notable when I became their fan (which was during the Vancouver Olympics), so that and the way he carried/carries himself + something untangible (which is always part of charisma) has always drawn my (and, I am sure, many other people's) attention to him nearly as much as to Virtue. Actually, some people have called his acting/facial expressions over the top. So, even if he tried to stay in the background somewhat, his natural charisma tended to come through most of the time anyway.

 

[sap5]

I disagree. Yes, Moir did not have the hair etc. before, but hair, clothes and looks in general are not the only things that draw attention towards the male partner (or the female partner, for that matter). Moir's acting skills were already notable when I became their fan (which was during the Vancouver Olympics), so that and the way he carried/carries himself + something untangible (which is always part of charisma) has always drawn my (and, I am sure, many other people's) attention to him nearly as much as to Virtue. Actually, some people have called his acting/facial expressions over the top. So, even if he tried to stay in the background somewhat, his natural charisma tended to come through most of the time anyway.

I didn't say he's usually in the background; I said that he usually tries to stay in the background. I was just referring to their usual flower/stem approach, with him typically in the toned-down outfit with the muted colors, so that most of the attention is going her way.

 

[aftershocks]

https://twitter.com/GabriellaPks/status/864991550752923648

Gabriella Papadakis‏Verified account @GabriellaPks
Didn't study journalism but I'm pretty sure making an article about a quote taken out of context is considered bad press?

#justsayin

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ Previously mentioned earlier in this thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...k-cheap-and-cliche.101275/page-4#post-5074598
(I believe the website in question was Sports.ru)

 

[Tak]

Gabriella: I’m not a big fan of Latin for skating. I love Latin dances, I love watching Latin dances, on the floor. But on the ice… I think it’s such a different dynamic in the body that cannot really be translated on the ice, so it’s always gonna look kind of… cheap…

Oh, they took the words right out of my mouth! I know it's personal taste, but I HATE latin dance - all these cheap costumes and hand waving. I certainly hope they can come up with something different and better. If they could just do one sultry rhumba it might not be so bad.

The other team Im pinning my hopes on is G/P. I loved their approach to disco. Im hoping for something watchable from them.