Pairs Discussion Thread 2019-20: “Two skating as one”

[aftershocks]

I really like Peng/Jin - saw them live at GPF and loved their 'Le Vie En Rose'. I think you said they might become a bit like Pang/Tong (can't find the post I quoted from), and I think that might be true.

No, it wasn't me who said that. I personally don't find Peng/Jin to be that reminiscent of Pang/Tong. I think both teams have different qualities and their own unique dynamic.

 

[aftershocks]

I would love to see them with Savchenko.

Do you mean as one of their coaches? They already said they are working with Dmitri Savin, but that they hope to have a team of coaches in Russia and in Germany. I'm not sure that Savchenko's major focus is coaching right now, nor do I think she's interested in working with a team of coaches, though perhaps she would be willing to offer consultative advice, if requested.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Not sure about marrying throw landings, but you could marry Stolbova. The tiny problem is that you will be facing competition from Morozov. Sadly, him having the status in Russian skating world does give him significant advantage. On the positive note, with his dating history and the line of past marriages, everything indicates that Stolbova will be free just in a few years.

Well, if she’s okay with it, I’m definitely not saying no! I’m not sure if she prefers ladies though...

Interview with one of the new German pairs

Pavlova/Blommaert

It'll be interesing wether they choose Oberstdorf or Berlin as their German practice location ... lots of coaching options too: König/Schubert, Österreich/ Rex in Berlin and Fajr, Wende/Wende and Savchenko in Oberstdorf

Excited to see this, I hope it will turn out well!

 

[Sabine-Yuna]

Interview with one of the new German pairs

Pavlova/Blommaert

It'll be interesing wether they choose Oberstdorf or Berlin as their German practice location ... lots of coaching options too: König/Schubert, Österreich/ Rex in Berlin and Fajr, Wende/Wende and Savchenko in Oberstdorf

I'm a little confused. How can it be a new German pair? It says nothing about her releasing status? As long as she is not released she belongs to the Russian Fed. In the interview I could not find a question or answer to her status and I wonder if Russian Fed. will release these Mozer-girls. Bidar would be first in line I suppose, he choses Zhuk some weeks ago and I didn't hear anything about her being released. I'm not sure if it would be good for the sport if Russia spreads it's wealth all over the world and we have even more Russian girls starting for different countries. Does anyone know if Russia collects money for giving away their well prepared girls or are they for free?

 

[hanca]

I'm a little confused. How can it be a new German pair? It says nothing about her releasing status? As long as she is not released she belongs to the Russian Fed. In the interview I could not find a question or answer to her status and I wonder if Russian Fed. will release these Mozer-girls. Bidar would be first in line I suppose, he choses Zhuk some weeks ago and I didn't hear anything about her being released. I'm not sure if it would be good for the sport if Russia spreads it's wealth all over the world and we have even more Russian girls starting for different countries. Does anyone know if Russia collects money for giving away their well prepared girls or are they for free?

Maybe Moser is so confident that Pavlova will be released, that they didn’t wait for it to become official and went for announcement. Or maybe they are hoping that if they announce it, the Russian federation will find it much harder to refuse to release her, because they may want to avoid another interview where Pavlova explains that Russian federation didn’t release her.

Or maybe the Russian federation didn’t release Osipova because they didn’t want to help Bidar, who they might have seen as potentially strong competitor in the future, but they are not worried about helping Blommaert.

 

[hanca]

Do you mean as one of their coaches? They already said they are working with Dmitri Savin, but that they hope to have a team of coaches in Russia and in Germany. I'm not sure that Savchenko's major focus is coaching right now, nor do I think she's interested in working with a team of coaches, though perhaps she would be willing to offer consultative advice, if requested.

Well, Savchenko was interested in coaching at some point otherwise she wouldn’t take Knierims on. As far as I know, the fact that it didn’t work out was not because she lost interest in coaching, but because there were some differences of opinions about how hard they should be working. They obviously had completely different expectations, which may not be anyone’s fault. But that doesn’t mean that Savchenko doesn’t want to coach. The question is obviously about the timing - she is pregnant, she may want to stay at home with her child for some time, maybe six months, maybe a year or two... but all I said is that I would like them with her. It doesn’t have to be immediately. I am curious what Savchenko would manage with a new pair, with a completely blank sheet.

 

[aftershocks]

Well, Savchenko was interested in coaching at some point otherwise she wouldn’t take Knierims on. As far as I know, the fact that it didn’t work out was not because she lost interest in coaching, but because there were some differences of opinions about how hard they should be working. They obviously had completely different expectations, which may not be anyone’s fault. But that doesn’t mean that Savchenko doesn’t want to coach. The question is obviously about the timing - she is pregnant, she may want to stay at home with her child for some time, maybe six months, maybe a year or two... but all I said is that I would like them with her. It doesn’t have to be immediately. I am curious what Savchenko would manage with a new pair, with a completely blank sheet.

There are indeed two sides to every story. I formed my perceptions regarding Savchenko's seeming reluctance to commit to coaching full-time, from comments she made during a GS interview on Youtube:

Aljona Savchenko and Bruno Massot on Coaching

Aljona Savchenko and Bruno Massot, the 2018 Olympic Champions in Pairs figure skating, talk about their new roles as coaches as well as work on show numbers ...

www.youtube.com

Aliona spoke about the difficulties involved in coaching, and her conflicting emotions regarding not competing anymore. Add to those feelings she expressed the fact that she's now pregnant, and obviously she's not right now in a position to take on any full-time coaching or even part-time coaching. Also, since her personality is very strong, I'm not certain she would wish to work as part of two sets of coaching teams in Russia and Germany, which is what this new pairing have expressed they are seeking.

I think the risks Savchenko and the Knierims took to explore working with each other last season was well worth it. Each side surely learned something of value during the process. It didn't completely work out, but risks are often worth taking whether or not they work out the way all parties anticipate.

 

[marie1616]

There are indeed two sides to every story. I formed my perceptions regarding Savchenko's seeming reluctance to commit to coaching full-time, from comments she made during a GS interview on Youtube:

Aljona Savchenko and Bruno Massot on Coaching

Aljona Savchenko and Bruno Massot, the 2018 Olympic Champions in Pairs figure skating, talk about their new roles as coaches as well as work on show numbers ...

www.youtube.com

Aliona spoke about the difficulties involved in coaching, and her conflicting emotions regarding not competing anymore. Add to those feelings she expressed the fact that she's now pregnant, and obviously she's not right now in a position to take on any full-time coaching or even part-time coaching. Also, since her personality is very strong, I'm not certain she would wish to work as part of two sets of coaching teams in Russia and Germany, which is what this new pairing have expressed they are seeking.

I think the risks Savchenko and the Knierims took to explore working with each other last season was well worth it. Each side surely learned something of value during the process. It didn't completely work out, but risks are often worth taking whether or not they work out the way all parties anticipate.

She actually does coach some German girls full time right now. I know that's a completly different level but at least one of them won novice nationals this year and if they continue like this we might see her at the jgp in 2 years.
But you are right that it's unlikly she will coach Pavlova/Blommaert.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Wasn’t Savchenko working with some Chinese pairs for a while? I thought she had done some work for them right after the Knierims situation fell through.

 

[Japanfan]

Correction to my post above, #88 (too late to edit it.)

Shen/Zhao competed in their first worlds in 1993/94, finishing 21st - not 1991, as I said above.

 

[aftershocks]

She actually does coach some German girls full time right now. I know that's a completly different level but at least one of them won novice nationals this year and if they continue like this we might see her at the jgp in 2 years. But you are right that it's unlikly she will coach Pavlova/Blommaert.

Since Aliona loves figure skating and staying busy, I guess it's not a surprise she has found a way to continue spending time on the ice while she's pregnant. How long has she been coaching these young ladies skaters?

 

[Mad for Skating]

Eric Radford and Luis Fenero got married today!

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The wedding looks incredible - here are some of the pics!

https://mobile.twitter.com/mad4skating/status/1149523650611040256

Wishing them nothing but happiness in their life together!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove]

Eric Radford and Luis Fenero got married today!

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Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

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The wedding looks incredible - here are some of the pics!

https://mobile.twitter.com/mad4skating/status/1149523650611040256

Wishing them nothing but happiness in their life together!

The whose who of figure skating weddings this summer!

Great photos in the Twitter thread.

 

[Mad for Skating]

The whose who of figure skating weddings this summer!

Great photos in the Twitter thread.

So exciting! Everyone looked amazing, particularly the grooms.
(And Madi Chock because I’m a part-time gay)

 

[aftershocks]

Cross-posting from Chinese skating thread in GSD:

Chelsea and her partner -
http://m.weibo.cn/6361703010/HDDJhmOCk?&jumpfrom=weibocom

The new Chelsea Liu. They look good together, and Hongbo Zhou looks happy at rinkside. I must say the opening moves, music selection, choreo and skating style are a direct emulation of James/Cipres. But imitation is the highest form of flattery (being practiced by a lot of pairs teams influenced by J/C). Not that James/Cipres tend to get much credit for leading the pairs division in pure excitement and excellence over the past several seasons.

It will certainly take Liu/Xie a bit of time to develop their own version of J/C's chemistry, connection and excitement though.

 

[PairSkater12345]

Cross-posting from Chinese skating thread in GSD:




The new Chelsea Liu. They look good together, and Hongbo Zhou looks happy at rinkside. I must say the opening moves, music selection, choreo and skating style are a direct emulation of James/Cipres. But imitation is the highest form of flattery (being practiced by a lot of pairs teams influenced by J/C). Not that James/Cipres tend to get much credit for leading the pairs division in pure excitement and excellence over the past several seasons.

It will certainly take Liu/Xie a bit of time to develop their own version of J/C's chemistry, connection and excitement though.

Maybe this has been discussed, however....How did she get released from USFS? Is it because she has a citizenship claim?

 

[Dobre]

Maybe this has been discussed, however....How did she get released from USFS? Is it because she has a citizenship claim?

What would keep her from being released? Her resume is similar to Keegan's & Piper's.

 

[aftershocks]

Yes, Liu was still up-and-coming as a U.S. pairs skater and not that high profile, despite her talent. I don't know the various feds' criteria for immediately releasing or stipulating wait periods before releasing skaters. Mervin Tran had to wait a requisite period before being released from Canada, despite not having represented Canada very long (since he spent five years skating with Narumi Takahashi for Japan, albeit training in Canada). In any case, Mervin was more high profile as a World bronze medal winner.

 

[PairSkater12345]

What would keep her from being released? Her resume is similar to Keegan's & Piper's.

Piper had to wait 1-2 years. Messing was a Canadian citizen as well.

 

[Amy L]

Mervin skated with Natasha Purich for Canada in between Narumi and Marissa, that's why he had a bigger waiting time than if he'd just gone from Japan to US.

 

[aftershocks]

Mervin skated with Natasha Purich for Canada in between Narumi and Marissa, that's why he had a bigger waiting time than if he'd just gone from Japan to US.

True, but didn't Mervin only skate with Natasha for one season?

I think the wait time till Mervin & Marissa could compete for the U.S. internationally somewhat hampered them in getting off to a good start competitively. But then they just seemed to have a lot of bad luck anyway, and different jump techniques or something. The hurdles they faced could also have had more to do with Marissa needing to develop more difficult throws in her arsenal, and the fact that she admittedly found it harder than expected to adjust confidence-wise to the rhythms and timing of skating with a new partner after being with Simon Shnapir for so long. Albeit Marissa & Mervin at their best had great speed, and a smooth, seductive style that was very appealing. They just never got it together and working on all cylinders technically.


Edited to correct spacing error

 

[Amy L]

True, but didn't Mervin only skate with Natasha for one season?

Yes, but they did compete internationally.

 

[aftershocks]

Yes, but they did compete internationally.

I'm not arguing that, nor do I think the wait wasn't fair. Perhaps it could have been shortened a bit though. Of course Mervin had returned to compete internationally for his home country with Natasha. And sure, it's understandable Canada wished for Mervin to wait a year before competing internationally for the U.S. Still, Mervin attained his international success representing a country other than Canada. I understand his value to Canada, and the fact that he was home grown, and had received support from Canada when he skated briefly with Natasha.

There are the rules in place, but I still think the slow start didn't help Mervin/Marissa's partnership. Also, when Merv/Marissa competed in Canada at the start of their international competitive career, they were fairly on a par with recently formed Canadian teams, Luba/Dylan and Kirsten/Michael, yet of course, the Canadian teams were always favored in the marks. That didn't help M/M get off to a good start either.

In any case, it's not a big deal by now, and very much water under the bridge. Mervin's situation just occurred to me randomly since we were discussing other recent country switches by skaters and issues surrounding being released by their former countries. Most likely the wait time length is left up to discretion of individual feds. As we know, some feds make skaters wait an inordinately long time, which can scuttle their competitive opportunities.

 

[Sylvia]

It was posted in the Japanese news thread yesterday that Riku Miura (recently split from Shoya Ichihashi) and Ryuichi Kihara are a new pair team for JPN: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...eason-news-updates.105719/page-2#post-5614941

Laura Barquero posted this photo from Italy today (with Broda/Betegon): https://www.instagram.com/p/B0xyuWqgV4E/
New partnership with Ton Consul for Spain?

Other new senior level pairs that I know about:

Olivia Boys-Eddy (CAN) & Livio Mayr (AUT) - training in Oakville, Ontario: https://www.instagram.com/p/BzJMob3JK17/

Lubov Ilyushechkina & Charlie Bilodeau (CAN) - debuting at Quebec Summer Championships this coming weekend

Natasha Purich & Bryce Chudak (CAN) - she's still recovering from her patellar fracture (had another surgery in early July)

Nadine Wang (USA) & Francis Boudreau-Audet (CAN) - debuted programs at Minto; Quebec next

Chelsea Liu (USA) & Zhong XIE (CHN) - debuted in China; she last competed internationally in Feb. 2019

Anna Duskova & Radek Jakubka (CZE) - currently training in Montreal

Elizaveta Zhuk (RUS) & Martin Bidar (CZE) - she's currently at the Team Mozer camp in Italy: https://www.instagram.com/p/B0vbHiLI1s1/

Annika Hocke & Robert Kunkel (GER) - planning to compete on JGP as well as senior internationally

Elena Pavlova (RUS) & Ruben Blommaert (GER) - recently trained with Klimov & Team Mozer in Italy https://www.instagram.com/p/B0vTEDoJ6yi/

Isabella Gamez (USA/PHI) & David-Alexandre Paradis (CAN) - debuted SP at Minto; Quebec next

Eloise Papka & Johannes Wilkinson (RSA) - debuted at South African Nationals in early April

Nadezhda Labazina & Maxim Miroshkin (RUS): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ove-33-summer-2019.105726/page-6#post-5606514

Ksenia Stolbova (RUS) & Andrei Novoselov (FRA)

Emily Chan & Spencer Howe (USA) - has competed SP only to date, AFAIK

Any other confirmed new partnerships (senior)?

 

[RoseRed]

Barquero/Consul was announced officially already: https://twitter.com/fedhielo/status/1155438177441763328

 

[hanca]

Any other confirmed new partnerships (senior)?

Nika Osipova/Dmitry Bushlanov (Rus)
Krasnopolski +1 (ISR)

 

[vanillashake]

Are Savchenko & Massot planning to return at some point this quad? I really hope they do, I am a huge fan of theirs. I also have no doubt they could still easily compete for Gold medals if a team like James & Cipres was even the top team most of last season.

 

[Colonel Green]

Are Savchenko & Massot planning to return at some point this quad?

At this point, extremely unlikely — Bruno, especially, seems done.

 

[Sylvia]

Elena Pavlova (RUS) & Ruben Blommaert (GER) - recently trained with Klimov & Team Mozer in Italy https://www.instagram.com/p/B0vTEDoJ6yi/

Fedor Klimov just posted a group photo and identified the gathering in Baselga di Pinè, Italy as an "ISU Development Pair Skating Camp": https://www.instagram.com/p/B0ymr4QnJPW/
Is that Elizaveta Kashitsyna/Mark Magyar (HUN) on the left next to Lana Petrovic/Antonio Souza-Kordeiru (CRO); Cain/LeDuc also are training there for 3 weeks.

 

[vanillashake]

At this point, extremely unlikely — Bruno, especially, seems done.

So sad.