Nina Mozer: For me, 4th place is akin to complete failure. Interview in Moskow Skater Magazine.

[MacMadame]

Did someone say it was taboo for Mozer to talk about this? All I saw were people criticizing her arguments and saying she was wrong.

Disagreement is not a call for censorship.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Did someone say it was taboo for Mozer to talk about this? All I saw were people criticizing her arguments and saying she was wrong.
Disagreement is not a call for censorship.

Some people did. Some made comments which basically lead to "she should not have open her mouth again" or "when she does i roll my eyes, or expect a disaster".

To the "asian advantage" issue, i would rather see arguments like (one of which we had):

• I am asian, never felt any advantages..
• I know studies that prove otherwise..
• it is not proven..
• I think it's on the contrary, Asians have disadvantages..

(instead of "rolling eyes" or "oh, not again, she opened her mouth"..)

 

[VGThuy]

Those comments are just commenting on their expectations because this was far from the first interview they've read of hers. When you open your mouth enough, you'll develop a certain reputation and people start expecting certain things from you. Then when you prove those people right yet again...well I don't blame them if they can't help but roll their eyes.

 

[MacMadame]

Some people did. Some made comments which basically lead to "she should not have open her mouth again" or "when she does i roll my eyes, or expect a disaster".

The later is not saying she doesn't have a right to her opinion even as you quoted it. And the first one is taken out of context. The people were saying "she shouldn't say these things, because they are stupid and she's going to get slammed" not that she shouldn't say these things because she has no right to say these things. She has a right to be an idiot if she wants to.

 

[Tinami Amori]

The later is not saying she doesn't have a right to her opinion even as you quoted it. And the first one is taken out of context. The people were saying "she shouldn't say these things, because they are stupid and she's going to get slammed" not that she shouldn't say these things because she has no right to say these things. She has a right to be an idiot if she wants to.

not many skating fans on many russian sites think that "Mozer is an idiot". However, few did say "wait till english-speaking sites get a whiff of her asian advantage comments"... We were even taking bets how many on FSU and GS will jump out of their skin over it.. (with odds going for "GS will be less", "FSU will be more") and i won.

 

[MacMadame]

Well, I think we have the answer to whether or not Russians realized these comments are idiotic and will call them out. Not only do they not realize it; they are proud of their ignorance.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Well, I think we have the answer to whether or not Russians realized these comments are idiotic and will call them out. Not only do they not realize it; they are proud of their ignorance.

So you on "english speaking forums" know the "truth" and what's ignorant or not? Well, we Russians (many of us) don't think you "know what's right and what's true". We often think you "westerners" are ignorant, or as someone put it "get hysterical over everything that does not fit the flavor-of-the day PC concepts". To each its own...

 

[Prancer]

The statement i made is not about "validity" of such discussions/articles, but the fact that articles and discussions exist, and me claiming that if they exist, and people read them, and make conclusions (right or wrong), then talking about it (like Mozer and few others did) is not a taboo.

Taboo, no, but if a person is relying on research, then the research should be accurate and accurately presented.

This one no longer shows link to the whole article, just the abstract (but it was there when i saw it)
- https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1357034X030092004

Not a problem; I have access to the full text of the document. This is not a study but an argument that such studies should not be blocked or suppressed because of political correctness.

None of the rest of these are actual studies, either; it's a collection of news reports (which are notoriously unreliable for scientific information), an encyclopedia discussion of the issue (ditto) and an internet chat. Some of them reference studies, but that's not on point.

The Live Science link is a good example of why news sources are not good sources of scientific information. The headline claims that the study was about why black athletes run so fast and that is going to be what most people will take away from it, but the study itself was about body type and made no actual conclusions about race and athletic ability, only about race and certain body measurements. The scientists in question speculated that there is a link between body type and speed, but they didn't actually study that issue.

If your point is just that people are talking about it, then sure, I will totally agree--some people are talking about it. There have been some studies. And if Nina Mozer wants to talk about it, then she should have at it.

But saying that race is a possible factor in athletic performance is one thing; making assertions that race IS a determining factor in athletic performance is something else entirely. And she should be taking a drubbing, not for bringing it up, but for making a statement that is not supported by the evidence.

 

[VGThuy]

not many skating fans on many russian sites think that "Mozer is an idiot". However, few did say "wait till english-speaking sites get a whiff of her asian advantage comments"... We were even taking bets how many on FSU and GS will jump out of their skin over it.. (with odds going for "GS will be less", "FSU will be more") and i won.

Congratulations. I'm sure flat earthers say the same thing when they prepare for any responses from scientists or just people with basic science education to their pseudoscience assertions as well.

 

[rfisher]

Well, I think we have the answer to whether or not Russians realized these comments are idiotic and will call them out. Not only do they not realize it; they are proud of their ignorance.

Valari Liukin said essentially the same thing about the African American gymnasts. Part of this is a cultural divide.

 

[puglover]

So you on "english speaking forums" know the "truth" and what's ignorant or not? Well, we Russians (many of us) don't think you "know what's right and what's true". We often think you "westerners" are ignorant, or as someone put it "get hysterical over everything that does not fit the flavor-of-the day PC concepts". To each its own...

I think many people who frequent this forum appreciate interviews of Russian origin as they appear to be more frank, open and refreshing. Perhaps there is less stating of the canned, acceptable comments and more speaking from the heart than what we "westerners" usually read. That said - if you put it out there - you can expect to have blow-back and that is especially true if what you say in controversial, no matter where you call home. Comments about race/advantage are not likely to be ignored.

 

[PRlady]

Congratulations. I'm sure flat earthers say the same thing when they prepare for any responses from scientists or just people with basic science education to their pseudoscience assertions as well.

Don’t forget the self-righteous anti-vaxxers.

It’s not that there aren’t people trying to link race with certain assets and liabilities, Charles Murray is one of them and he’s not Russian. But the vast majority of scientists now say that genetically, race is a social construct, and the genetic differences between races are far fewer than those between members of the same race.

However, for reasons I posited above, it seems to be considered brave and unPC to be overtly racist in Russia, just as among the supporters of the American president it helped elect. It’s sort of pathetic from a culture that has contributed a lot, and that now takes pride in chest-thumping suitable for the third-rate country it has become.

 

[Vagabond]

It wasn't that long ago that many gymnastics coaches assumed that blacks did not have the right body type for the sport:

America’s painful journey from prejudice to greatness in women’s gymnastics

thinkprogress.org

(For what it's worth, I don't think anyone seriously thinks that being African-American in particular makes anyone a more gifted gymnast. Some black people from other countries such as Brazil and the U.K. have had notable success in the sport.)

I am sure that if someone dug around, he could find accounts of similar statements from the same era about figure skaters of Asian ancestry.

 

[MacMadame]

So you on "english speaking forums" know the "truth" and what's ignorant or not? Well, we Russians (many of us) don't think you "know what's right and what's true". We often think you "westerners" are ignorant, or as someone put it "get hysterical over everything that does not fit the flavor-of-the day PC concepts". To each its own...

Science is not on your side. It has nothing to do with "flavor-of-the-day PC concepts". Or who does or does not speak what language.

And it's not "getting hysterical" to point out on a forum that someone is saying something that is not supported by science.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Nina Mozer: "I want to say to God, why do you keep go breaking my heart?"

I must clarify that I believe this particular interview on the list was a parody, not an actual interview with Mozer. The others, however, appear to be legit.

 

[Japanfan]

But the vast majority of scientists now say that genetically, race is a social construct, and the genetic differences between races are far fewer than those between members of the same race.

The notion that there are separate human races (as opposed to just one, the human race) was debunked quite some time ago.

 

[Vagabond]

I must clarify that I believe this particular interview on the list was a parody, not an actual interview with Mozer. The others, however, appear to be legit.

 

[tylersf]

I'm Asian and apparently Nina Mozer has never seen my bad skating when I trained with a prominent coach. I was probably her worst student EVER.

 

[Erin]

What happened to Ivana Komova?!

I believe she is in jail for libel but has started a blog from the slammer. I posted the link earlier in the thread.

I must clarify that I believe this particular interview on the list was a parody, not an actual interview with Mozer. The others, however, appear to be legit.

Actually, there are two parody links in that list. But I feel like a high quality parody is often nearly indistinguishable from the source material.

 

[Mad for Skating]

I'm Asian and apparently Nina Mozer has never seen my bad skating when I trained with a prominent coach. I was probably her worst student EVER.

I’m Asian on my mom’s side and let me tell you, I’m no Michelle Kwan. For every great Asian skater, there’s 10 more that didn’t make it to the top. Same for white skaters too.

Actually, there are two parody links in that list. But I feel like a high quality parody is often nearly indistinguishable from the source material.

How true! Omg, I didn’t even identify that one of the other ones was a parody. Sometimes fiction is more convincing than the truth!

 

[Vagabond]

Actually, there are two parody links in that list. But I feel like a high quality parody is often nearly indistinguishable from the source material.

At least two.

 

[muffinplus]

I'm Asian and apparently Nina Mozer has never seen my bad skating when I trained with a prominent coach. I was probably her worst student EVER.

Buttttt Where are your speed fibers..

 

[Mad for Skating]

Buttttt Where are your speed fibers..

Fun fact: I run slower than all the white people on my dad’s side of the family. Why? Because this Asian girl has short legs like her mama. But of course, Nina Mozer doesn’t know that.