Music rights clearance issues (policy being implemented by the ISU starting in 2024)

[A.H.Black]

Oh yes, absolutely agreed on that! A database would make it so much easier for all involved. Perhaps with time and some investment of resources, such a thing would be possible.

True.

I was thinking it would change your other points as well. Why would an athlete/performer choose music by a lesser known music artist (especially a cover) if they could have the original? Also, if the more well known music were used more, it would give the lesser known artist even less opportunity to have their music noticed. It might make a lesser known artist appear poorly if they chose not to allow their music to be used. I can see societal pressure to include music on the data base making a difference.

 

[Willin]

As far as I know, USFS has a database as such. You can check if your music has rights issues or not before the season - and skaters are required to do so.

I thought the ISU also shared what music libraries worked for them and there were no issues up until now even with the music needing to be swapped - but perhaps the IOC has different licensing agreements than standard non-Olympic broadcasts.

 

[Jayar]

There was at least one competitor at US Championships who has an artist coming after them for expenses. This competitor has a post-championships assignment, though not the OWG. It's getting a bit out of hand. We are going to end up with everyone skating to Greensleeves created by AI, but AI will charge them.

 

[Rukia]

There was at least one competitor at US Championships who has an artist coming after them for expenses. This competitor has a post-championships assignment, though not the OWG. It's getting a bit out of hand. We are going to end up with everyone skating to Greensleeves created by AI, but AI will charge them.

usfs had to be aware they were muting her music during practice streams

 

[MacMadame]

I haven't quite understood yet why it's apparently no problem to use music at other competitions. I mean are there special rights for the Olympics Weird (oh, sorry, just saw, someone already asked that...but still haven't seen a very understandable answer).

There are different kinds of rights that require different permissions. However, I know of no right that would only be required at one particular competition (Olympics) and not at others (GP, Worlds). They are all competitions held in arenas and broadcast via network/cable/streaming.

The only way this would happen is if NBC is putting extra requirements for a different kind of license that they haven't already gotten. I can't think of any so I would be surprised if that was the answer but we have posters in broadcasting who might know of something I don't.

I think skaters are just taking a chance during the Fall but not willing to risk it during the Olympics.

As far as I know, USFS has a database as such. You can check if your music has rights issues or not before the season - and skaters are required to do so.

Is it different from ClickNClear?

I thought the ISU also shared what music libraries worked for them and there were no issues up until now even with the music needing to be swapped - but perhaps the IOC has different licensing agreements than standard non-Olympic broadcasts.

Yes, ClickNClear. The ISU is paying for access to this. Skaters can use anything in it with no rights issues. There is a mechanism to ask ClickNClear to get something not in the db cleared as well, but it's not a guarantee it will clear. Of course, skaters are free to make their own arrangements outside of ClickNClear.

I think people skate to covers for many reasons, but covers do tend to be cheaper to license. I also think that's why we had so many Ricky Martins at Euros. Someone said his music is in ClickNClear for no charge.

 

[Karen-W]

Tomas-Llorenc Guarino Sabate confirms on his IG story that the music clearance issue is with his Minions SP. He cleared it with the ISU ClicknClear process last summer and was only informed this past Friday that it wasn't cleared for the Olympics.

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[tony]

There was at least one competitor at US Championships who has an artist coming after them for expenses. This competitor has a post-championships assignment, though not the OWG. It's getting a bit out of hand. We are going to end up with everyone skating to Greensleeves created by AI, but AI will charge them.

The artist is on top of every single usage of the music - I got warnings on my Instagram saying it will be shut down for using such, complete with the email contact of the artist as he had personally filed the complaint on my videos.

It's Alina Bonillo's free skate for those who are wondering.

 

[Rukia]

Tomas-Llorenc Guarino Sabate confirms on his IG story that the music clearance issue is with his Minions SP. He cleared it with the ISU ClicknClear process last summer and was only informed this past Friday that it wasn't cleared for the Olympics.

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absolutely bonkers that he followed the process he was told was correct to find out it wouldn't work for the biggest competition of the year like what are we doing here

 

[MacMadame]

absolutely bonkers that he followed the process he was told was correct to find out it wouldn't work for the biggest competition of the year like what are we doing here

Agreed!

And "not cleared for the Olympics" is not the first time we've heard this and it makes me wonder. From my own research into copyright and music rights issue, I just don't see how this can be. Maybe these artists are saying "sure you can use my music as long as it's not for a really big comp?"

 

[tony]

Agreed!

And "not cleared for the Olympics" is not the first time we've heard this and it makes me wonder.

Ah yes, the "they are still assholes" situation from 2022 coming back, am I right?

From my own research into copyright and music rights issue, I just don't see how this can be. Maybe these artists are saying "sure you can use my music as long as it's not for a really big comp?"

I've poked around about Guarino Sabate's specific issue, and was told by his team that the music was okayed through ClicknClear, but then the owner of the license wrote to them and said it's in fact not actually cleared. So who knows what happened. He will use his short program from last season, which is now his free skate this year so he either has to skate both programs on the same music, or go back to his old free skate as well. With a weeks notice.

 

[MacMadame]

Ah yes, the "they are still assholes" situation from 2022 coming back, am I right?

That situation was very different because they were approached before the Olympics and the band wanted payment for the entire season.

But this season, we have ClickNClear and a much bigger understanding of music rights, yet we have at least one dance team, Alina, and a few others, all with music rights issues right before the Olympics, with some saying their music "wasn't cleared for the Olympics" rather than their music "wasn't cleared at all."

I've poked around about Guarino Sabate's specific issue, and was told by his team that the music was okayed through ClicknClear, but then the owner of the license wrote to them and said it's in fact not actually cleared. So who knows what happened.

Yikes! Someone screwed up here and it wasn't Sabate!

 

[Jay42]

The artist is on top of every single usage of the music - I got warnings on my Instagram saying it will be shut down for using such, complete with the email contact of the artist as he had personally filed the complaint on my videos.

It's Alina Bonillo's free skate for those who are wondering.

After the Mrazek's had to change their music last season I would have thought that his dislike of people using his music like that would have gotten around more. From what I've read he's been doing this for well over a decade now.

 

[Bunny Hop]

I haven't quite understood yet why it's apparently no problem to use music at other competitions. I mean are there special rights for the Olympics Weird (oh, sorry, just saw, someone already asked that...but still haven't seen a very understandable answer).

No, I'm 99% sure there are no special rights for the Olympics, but the Olympics has a significantly larger TV audience than any other skating event. So there' s potential there for the big record labels (e.g. your Warner Music or Sony Music) to not be that worried about their artists' work being broadcast to a niche audience or streamed by diehard skating fans, but they will want to extract $$$ as the Olympics is still a high rating television event across both traditional linear television and now streaming.

Basically, it's about ratings, potential audience reach and how they can monetise that.

A skater at a small club competition is likely going to get away with not clearing music because there will be no broadcast and very few audience members, and nobody is making money from that competition. As soon as you introduce a large paying audience and broadcasts/streaming then people (music labels, artists, lyricists, composers, orchestras) might potentially want their cut. Some artists might be very happy for their work to be used for free but it's often not just them who has a say (the aforementioned music labels), and others will either see it as a commercial opportunity or just not want their work used in that way.

I think people skate to covers for many reasons, but covers do tend to be cheaper to license.

There are whole YouTube channels of (bad) covers out there, some of which have been used for skating programs - I've joked before about there being an ISU Bad Cover Shop. My educated guess is that these are popular because the work of clearance with the original artists has already been done, so it's just the cover versions which needs to be cleared and it is indeed cheaper.

Maybe these artists are saying "sure you can use my music as long as it's not for a really big comp?"

Per above, that is indeed what I think is happening. Not certain, but I would say highly likely.

ETA: I'm not qualified to provide expert copyright advice, but in my working life I have to have a knowledge of copyright.