Missing ladies at the Olympics since 1984

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Kadavy gave my favorite skate at the 1987 Worlds LP. I never understood Trenary's appeal.

That’s so interesting. I had the complete opposite opinion as yours.

Jill had flashes us of a pre-Nicole Bobek for me. I found her drawing me in and a bit magnetic.

I could never get much into Caryn, I get drunk on women’s flexibility in skating and because I did not find her layback and spiral to be all that I never got into her that much. And then when she was doing the Pro-Ams I was much more into Denise and Oksana and Kristi.

 

[VGThuy]

That’s so interesting. I had the complete opposite opinion as yours.

Jill had flashes us of a pre-Nicole Bobek for me. I found her drawing me in and a bit magnetic.

I could never get much into Caryn, I get drunk on women’s flexibility in skating and because I did not find her layback and spiral to be all that I never got into her that much. And then when she was doing the Pro-Ams I was much more into Denise and Oksana and Kristi.

I don't remember Trenary being more flexible than Kadavy at 1987 Worlds. In fact, I found the opposite to be true:

Caryn Kadavy (USA) - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program

Cincinnati, Ohio, USA - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program - Caryn Kadavy of the United States skated a wonderful program here to ...

www.youtube.com

Jill Trenary (USA) - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program

Cincinnati, Ohio, USA - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program - Jill Trenary of the United States placed 5th in the Long Program to f...

youtu.be

Kadavy's back bend throughout that choreography and her ability to interpret the music with that line throughout was excellent, IMO.

 

[NinjaTurtles]

I agree with this and Sasha is in another stratosphere for me in terms of favorite skaters, like galaxies ahead of my next favorite but I was not pleased with how frail she looked at Nationals that year. I have no evidence of this but I do sometimes suspect that for Sasha 'off-ice' training meant...dieting.

She purposefully reduced the amount of off ice conditioning and on ice training for her 2010 comeback in hopes of staving off injury. She had enough nagging issues that she was concerned with strain and stress. Not that it worked. Sasha originally went to Arutyunyan for coaching; she felt she was incapable at that stage of her fitness of meeting his minimal demands for training. What could have been with Raf overseeing her skating!

I’m extremely confident she crashed diet in advance of 2010 Nationals. She was off the ice due injuries and openly complained about her stomach during the competition.

We’ll always have the more confidently skated Moonlight Sonatas from her 2009 touring season: https://youtu.be/kGL2qmtHXgg

 

[Seerek]

Grossmann in 1992: She was good in the LP usually and a pupil of Jutta Mueller. In 1992, beyond the 3 US ladies and Ito, it was wide open; not many ladies had the full array of triples at that time, so she seemed like a good candidate for a 5-8 place finish in Albertville. Did she suffer the reunification of Germany? I heard that the merging of the 2 skating unions was not too smooth.

Evelyn Grossmann's Olympic hopes for 1992 ended at German Nationals when she placed 5th. The top 3 went on to have a skate off at Europeans to determine the 2 Olympic berths, which went to Patricia Neske and Marina Kielmann.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Interesting retrospective about US Ladies in the 81-84 era. I did not remember Roz going for 5 triples at 81 SC or Vikki de Vries doing the same. Were they all 3 Sals and Toes? I did not include Vikki because she went to Worlds once in 1982 and was the 3rd place American. I always thought Zayak with improved artistry was underscored at 83 Nationals, while Roz won with a fall in the LP, the judges giving her straight 5.9s.

Keep in mind this is back in an era when skaters could repeat the same triple without being penalised. Roz did 3 triple toe loops and 2 triple salchows at this event.

Vikki's routine from Skate Canada 1982 used to be online. I'll see if I can source it elsewhere.

Rosalynn Sumners - 1981 Skate Canada FS

www.youtube.com

 

[Vagabond]

Vikki's routine from Skate Canada 1982 used to be online. I'll see if I can source it elsewhere.

@essence_of_soy Here it is:

Vikki de Vries (USA) - 1982 Skate Canada International, Ladies' Long Program

Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA - 1982 Skate Canada International, Ladies' Long Program - Vikki de Vries of the United States upset her teammate, Rosalynn Sumners...

www.youtube.com

@olympic De Vries did attempt the triple loop in competition. I don't know whether she ever managed to do that third rotation.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I don't remember Trenary being more flexible than Kadavy at 1987 Worlds. In fact, I found the opposite to be true:

Caryn Kadavy (USA) - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program

Cincinnati, Ohio, USA - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program - Caryn Kadavy of the United States skated a wonderful program here to ...

www.youtube.com

Jill Trenary (USA) - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program

Cincinnati, Ohio, USA - 1987 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Long Program - Jill Trenary of the United States placed 5th in the Long Program to f...

youtu.be

Kadavy's back bend throughout that choreography and her ability to interpret the music with that line throughout was excellent, IMO.

No, no no I wasn’t saying Jill was flexible. What appealed to me about Jill was her charisma, kind of like the same charisma Nicole had.

I never much got into Caryn. Even when she entered the proam competitions I still found myself into other’s programs. Lovely woman, lovely skater, I just was more into Jill in that era.

I will say this… I just went and watched the links you provided that was a lovely skate by Caryn. Really good

 

[olympic]

Caryn had an ethereal quality to her skating. It reminds me a bit of Peggy Fleming; seems fragile but not really.

Jill was more powerfully built, but they both expressed themselves well in their own ways.

I think Elaine Zayak is the skater who in hindsight has gained the most respect over the years from diehard fans and others. I still remember in her competitive days when Peggy commentating would ooze praise for Roz, then turn around and smirk at Elaine and 'her triples'.

 

[Plusdinfo]

Caryn had an ethereal quality to her skating.

From what I read of Caryn, her mom was a ballerina, so I saw her programs and thought that such an influence was evident. Then, in the TSL interview, she surprised me with the way she framed her thoughts on ballet. If I recall, it wasn't, "Well, I didn't enjoy ballet," but more along the lines of, "I hated ballet so much!" Despite her distaste for that training, I think it did wonders for her carriage and lines on the ice.

 

[floskate]

Caryn had an ethereal quality to her skating. It reminds me a bit of Peggy Fleming; seems fragile but not really.

Jill was more powerfully built, but they both expressed themselves well in their own ways.

I think Elaine Zayak is the skater who in hindsight has gained the most respect over the years from diehard fans and others. I still remember in her competitive days when Peggy commentating would ooze praise for Roz, then turn around and smirk at Elaine and 'her triples'.

Peggy's commentary of Elaine in the early 80's became downright unprofessional at times. Interesting that as you say it is Elaine who has stood the test of time and people can look back and appreciate how great her skating was.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Peggy's commentary of Elaine in the early 80's became downright unprofessional at times. Interesting that as you say it is Elaine who has stood the test of time and people can look back and appreciate how great her skating was.

Compared to Peggy, Debbie Wilkes and Johnny Esaw could not have provided more contrasting commentary. Especially at the 1980 World Championships and Skate Canada '80. They thought she was terrific, and representative of the new generation of dynamic rising stars (including Biellmann and Tracey Wainman).

 

[olympic]

Peggy's commentary of Elaine in the early 80's became downright unprofessional at times. Interesting that as you say it is Elaine who has stood the test of time and people can look back and appreciate how great her skating was.

Evidence of a lasting impact - a rule is named after her! Not to bash Roz, but I don't think anything about her style or her skating really stood out to create an aire of remembrance. I would put someone like Fratianne in front of Roz (chosen as an example of someone that many don't easily recall), who was pioneering in more lavish costumes and was the first US lady to do multiple triples (I think)

 

[bardtoob]

Peggy's commentary of Elaine in the early 80's became downright unprofessional at times. Interesting that as you say it is Elaine who has stood the test of time and people can look back and appreciate how great her skating was.

I think it was that interview in the Kiss N Cry when Uncle Dick asked Elaine if she wanted to be like Peggy Fleming, and Elaine said she wanted to be like Sonya Henie because she had more Olympic Gold Medals.

 

[floskate]

Evidence of a lasting impact - a rule is named after her! Not to bash Roz, but I don't think anything about her style or her skating really stood out to create an aire of remembrance. I would put someone like Fratianne in front of Roz (chosen as an example of someone that many don't easily recall), who was pioneering in more lavish costumes and was the first US lady to do multiple triples (I think)

Fratianne is an interesting case. Her free skates from 1976 US Nationals and Worlds and 1977 US Nationals were fantastic and promised so much. She had reliable jumps - I don't ever recall her completely wiping out on a triple attempt apart from 1977 Worlds where she was very ill with an infection. And then she just stagnated. Honestly, other than the nose job, what difference is there between her skating in 1976 as a 15 year old and a wannable Oly champion in Lake Placid? Recycled program, recycled dress, recycled skating. Look at the journey Biellmann went on just from 1978 to 1980. The sport was transforming at a rapid pace and yet the modus operandi in Fratianne's camp always seemed to be just keep doing what you're doing. If she had evolved a bit more I think it would have stood her in better stead going in to Lake Placid.

 

[bardtoob]

Fratianne is an interesting case. Her free skates from 1976 US Nationals and Worlds and 1977 US Nationals were fantastic and promised so much. She had reliable jumps - I don't ever recall her completely wiping out on a triple attempt apart from 1977 Worlds where she was very ill with an infection. And then she just stagnated. Honestly, other than the nose job, what difference is there between her skating in 1976 as a 15 year old and a wannable Oly champion in Lake Placid? Recycled program, recycled dress, recycled skating. Look at the journey Biellmann went on just from 1978 to 1980. The sport was transforming at a rapid pace and yet the modus operandi in Fratianne's camp always seemed to be just keep doing what you're doing. If she had evolved a bit more I think it would have stood her in better stead going in to Lake Placid.

I am going to guess that Fratianne was working on her compulsory figures while Biellmann was working on her free skating . . . I heard Pötzsch had the best training, that is trying to keep up with Katarina

Katarina Witt - 1979 European Figure Skating Championships LP

Yes really! Here is a baby Katarina making her major senior international debut, having only just turned 13 the month before, at the 1979 Europeans in Zagreb...

www.youtube.com

Katarina Witt 1979-1980 Long Program

Mary Poppins Medley The Boston Pops Orchestra, Arthur Fiedler From the 1980 World Championships Part of a Ice Skating Routine Documentation Project visit www...

www.youtube.com

 

[giselle23]

Kimmie Meissner was a World Champion who never made it to the Olympics. Her peak was between ages 14-16. By the time she was age eligible she had already faded.

Kimmie was at the 2006 Olympics (sorry if I'm not the first one to note this).

 

[giselle23]

Not sure which year it was, but the Swiss federation decided to send no one to the Olympics rather than send Lucinda Ruh.

 

[giselle23]

I felt it was a shame that Mao Asada was age ineligible for the 2006 Olympics. She had already beaten the 3 medalists the previous year and was the best skater at the time. That would’ve been an interesting Olympics if Kwan and Asada were there.

If Mao had been eligible, wouldn't Yuna have been, too? That would have made it even more interesting.

 

[tony]

Not sure which year it was, but the Swiss federation decided to send no one to the Olympics rather than send Lucinda Ruh.

It's the Swiss Olympic Committee, pretty sure. Sarah Meier had to do a test skate in 2002 to get into the Olympics and only found out a few days before the event that she was going. Jamal Othman the same thing in 2006. I believe they want(ed) a top 8 placement at Europeans, and when it didn't happen, the skaters had to show they were ready in a separate skate. Germany and several other countries also had stricter rules back then, and that's why we saw skaters from way down the alternates list getting into the Olympics.

 

[Jeschke]

Germany and several other countries also had stricter rules back then

((( Dytrt )))

 

[olympic]

((( Dytrt )))

yes. She was one of the missing in 2006, wasn’t she?

 

[Miki89]

I felt it was a shame that Mao Asada was age ineligible for the 2006 Olympics. She had already beaten the 3 medalists the previous year and was the best skater at the time. That would’ve been an interesting Olympics if Kwan and Asada were there.

I remember 2006 being one of the more underwhelming Olympics. Shizuka sorta won by default. What an event it could've been if a healthy Michelle and Mao were able to attend. If Mao skated her best, I think she would have won it. Though I would not have mind it if somehow the stars aligned to finally give Michelle her OGM.

 

[Coco]

And Kim...she beat Mao at Junior Worlds that season. She could have been 2x Olympic Champion!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

This one is a real shame.
The FS could have been really great with more mileage.

Sasha Cohen had a red and black dress for the SP at those USA Nationals... she was in 1st place after the SP? Or second? And then fell to 3rd/4th after the free?

Like Michelle's free skate at Nationals in 06 she looked rusty.

 

[Vagabond]

I am going to guess that Fratianne was working on her compulsory figures while Biellmann was working on her free skating

Olympics Site Closed | Olympics at Sports-Reference.com

Given that Fratianne was ninth in the Compulsories in Innsbruck and third in the Compulsories in Lake Placid, that is the most likely explanation.

Biellmann, incidentally, was twelfth in the Compulsories in Lake Placid.

Olympics Site Closed | Olympics at Sports-Reference.com

 

[Miki89]

And Kim...she beat Mao at Junior Worlds that season. She could have been 2x Olympic Champion!

Mao went with a very different, riskier layout at junior worlds. I think it was the first time she went for the 3A in the SP. She probably wanted to try something new because she wasn't motivated to win junior worlds again. If it were the Olympics, she would've definitely stuck with the GP layouts with which she had been fairly consistent. They both had a chance but Mao had the edge at the time.

 

[Seerek]

Manleywoman podcasts with a couple of the women discussed in this thread

Caryn Kadavy

Episode #65: Caryn Kadavy - figure skating interviews : The Manleywoman SkateCast

Caryn Kadavy, four-time US medalist at the US Figure Skating Championships, 1987 World Bronze Medalist, 1988 Olympian, coach and choreographer.

www.manleywoman.com

Lucinda Ruh

Episode #52: Lucinda Ruh - figure skating interviews : The Manleywoman SkateCast

Lucinda Ruh is a 2-time Swiss National Champion and Olympian. Her incredible spinning greatly influenced the sport, and earned her a Guinness world record.

www.manleywoman.com

 

[Maximillian]

Has Jill Trenary ever given an interview since 1992? I know she gave a brief one in Albertville during the Olympics, but outside of that I don't think she ever has. I have to say I've always been quite surprised at what a low profile she's kept since the end of her amateur career.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Has Jill Trenary ever given an interview since 1992? I know she gave a brief one in Albertville during the Olympics, but outside of that I don't think she ever has. I have to say I've always been quite surprised at what a low profile she's kept since the end of her amateur career.

It's funny you should mention that. There is an interview with Jill after she won the world title. (I think it may have been in the lead up to Albertville, though I am not sure.) She details how she is happy with her level of recognition, and say, if she won an Olympic title, would find the degree of fame Dorothy Hamill or Peggy Fleming experienced, more difficult to handle.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I have wonderful memories of when she toured with Torvill & Dean's Face The Music Tour that played Melbourne in 1994. Jill was a class act and in great shape.