Making Your Own Code of Points

VGThuy

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41,020
For an off-season exercise, I thought it would be fun to see what different fans could come up with if the ISU tasked you with the assignment of proposing changes to the current IJS. I got this idea after playing with multipliers for combinations/sequences in the other thread that I started thinking about other changes I would like to see implemented. I will post my own ideas later, but I was curious to see what other people can come up with.

Right now, I'm playing with the idea of making the SP much more "do or die" and changing the spin rules, and decreasing the amount of jumping passes in the LP.
 

On My Own

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5,010
Well spins are easy for me.

Spins.

Name the classic sit spin (back straight, free leg extended forwards, upper part of free leg at least parallel to the ice), classic camel (back horizontal to the ice and arched, free leg extended backwards, knee above hip level), attitude layback (back arched with shoulders and head held backwards, free leg held in attitude) as difficult variations.

Max level: 3

Levels (counted in order of execution):
1. Change of Edge (can count twice within the long program)
2. Difficult variation of position (as many as done, but cannot be double counted)
3. Difficult entry (difficult flying entry for flying spin)
4. Difficult exit
5. Acceleration or controlled deceleration in spin (however you want to phrase it for spins like this: https://youtu.be/z79TMsYRnEc?t=127)
6. Balance of rotation in each variation on both feet for change foot spins
7. Change of direction within the same spin, both directions performed in succession (double count this bullet)
8. At least 8 rev. without changes in position/variation, foot or edge
9. Change of foot executed by jump
10. Jump within a spin without changing feet
11. All 3 basic positions on both feet in a change foot combination spin
12. One clear change of position backwards-sideways or reverse, at least 2 rev. in each position (counts also if the Layback position is a part of any other spin)

Step sequences.

Max level: 3

1. Minimum variety (Level 1), simple variety (Level 2), variety (Level 3) of difficult turns and steps throughout (compulsory)
2. Rotations in either direction (left and right) with full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction
3. Use of body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern
4. Two combinations of 3 difficult turns on different feet executed with continuous flow within the sequence. Only the first combination attempted on each foot can be counted
5. 1/2 of the pattern is executed on one foot
6. Execution of clear pattern (serpentine, straight line, or circular)

Minimum Variety Must include at least 5 difficult turns and steps, none of the types can be counted more
than twice.

Simple Variety Must include at least 7 difficult turns and steps, none of the types can be counted
more than twice.

Variety Must include at least 9 difficult turns and steps, none of the types can be counted
more than twice.

Difficult turns: rockers, counters, brackets, twizzles, loops. Running threes (at least a double three turn) may be considered for minimum variety and simple variety. Back-inside to forward-outside three turn maybe considered for minimum variety.
Difficult steps: choctaws... maybe closed mohawk?

Other turns and steps: toe steps, chasses, open mohawks, change of edge, cross rolls, the rest of the three turns.

Long Program rules:

4 minutes
6 jumps (maximum 2 combos, maximum one three jump combo - for more than two combos, only first jump is counted. For more than two or three jumps in valid combos, only the first two or three jumps are counted)
3 spins
1 step sequence
2 choreo sequence lv1 (should be markedly different from each other or the second one is invalidated)
1 tech element of choice (at least a level 1 step or spin or at least a double jump - but all marked with the same BV; GOE based on choreographic purpose and execution first, and then difficulty just so no one's doing the simplest possible element just for the points)
 
Last edited:

Marco

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15,262
Singles:

Short Program

  • 3 jump passes including 1 combination jump; 1 solo edge jump; 1 solo toe jump
  • step sequence must be a full pattern

Free Skate

  • 7 jump passes including up to 3 combos / sequences
  • bonus for including all 6 takeoffs of 2 revs or more
  • bonus if all 3 combos / sequences are different in nature (e.g. +2toe; +2loop; +2axel SEQ)
  • After 3 spins have been clearly executed, a final scratch spin without BV can be performed for performance / interpretation purposes.

Overall

  • Screw per country rules - Top 24 on SB (or WS) list in those respective continents qualify to Euros / 4CCs; and federations not represented in the top 24 get to send 1 wild card entry that meets total score minimums; then top 24 after short program qualify to free skate. Similarly, after Euros / 4CCs, top 24 on SB or WS list qualify to Olympic / Worlds; and federations not represented in the top 24 get to send 1 wild card entry that meets total score minimums. Spots belong to skaters and not to federations - but federations have the right not to send everyone who qualified. No more Nebelhorn or placing top ten / combo of 13 at previous Worlds.
  • GOE values should be a % of the BV of the element (e.g. +5 = +50% BV; -4 = -40% BV etc).
  • No more "q"s, "<<"s and "e"s - too complex. Just "<"s and "!"s in which case BV is reduced to 80% but GOE reduction not mandatory. "<" can denote both pre- and under- rotations.
  • For jump GOEs, poor technique should be dinged as harsh as edge and rotation issues.
  • All non-jump elements (spins, both sequences) are either base or level 1 (displaying 1 feature) only. Their BVs should be reviewed upwards.
  • GOE values of all non-jump elements are a higher % of the BV of the element. If +5 = +50% BV for jumps, then for non-jump elements, =5 should = +100%.
  • For spins, minimum 6 revs per basic position and 4 revs per difficult position must be held without clearly slowing down before it can count as a position or a feature.
  • For spin GOEs, poor centering, slowing down and using the free foot to stop the spin should be dinged much more harshly.
  • Make speed and ice coverage the dominant GOE factor, and interpretation the secondary GOE factor for both step and chq sequences. (i.e. not intricacy or difficulty)
  • TR should consider not only difficulty but also quality, variety and relation to music.
  • SS should consider not only speed and ice coverage but much more the amount of one footed skating and edge power / smoothness of glide.
  • There can be a formula to further reward or penalize the performance score based on average GOE obtained on elements.
  • PCS variation judging should be encouraged.
  • Either PCS factor be revised or jump passes should be recued to 6 per free skate.
 

jamesy

delightful
Messages
13,854
If we are going the movie route on this, then crashing into garden furniture strategically placed on the ice should be worth 5.6.
Does the movie route include the judges holding up their scores on cards and the skaters competing with show lights?
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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27,871
Does the movie route include the judges holding up their scores on cards and the skaters competing with show lights?
That and flashing lights on costumes. And costume reveals are a compulsory element.
 

Aussie Willy

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27,871
Costume reveals or costume changes? Do you get -5 GOE if your costume change fails a la Semenenko last season?
Costume reveal al la Shcherbakova

But carrying on that theme.

  • Full drag queen like transition +5
  • Wig reveal and you throw it so one of the judges catches it +3
 

On My Own

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5,010
Short Program Rules would be:

2 minutes, 50 seconds
1 Axel type element
1 combination jump (not sequence)
1 steps into solo jump
3 spins (max level 3)
2 step sequences (max level 3)

Compulsory Rules for steps:

1. Minimum variety (Level 1), simple variety (Level 2), variety (Level 3) of difficult turns and steps throughout
2. Execution of clear pattern: serpentine, straight line, or circular, different from the other pattern in the SP. Unclear pattern results in Level B.
Third level must be obtained in order of exhaustion, no double counting allowed. Effectively can use one other level rule from the list I provided before.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,020
My short program rules would be:

Required Elements

  1. Combination Jumping Pass: Jumping pass in combination or SEQ (using my multipliers to give more credit for combos) requiring one jump to be at least a triple on the senior level. Cannot include jumps performed in either solo jumping passes.
  2. Toe Solo Jump: Steps or edge move-in-field immediately preceding - Solo jumping pass not including any jump in combination passincluding a toe-assisted jump of at least a triple for the senior level. (I'm debating whether if we should allow doubles).
  3. Edge Solo Jump: Steps or edge move-in-field immediately preceding Solo jumping pass including a edge jump of at least a double.
  4. Basic One-Position Spin: B-level or level 1 spin of one basic position (sit, camel, upright*). *laybacks and Biellmans (which in my code are separate spins) are acceptable but capped at level 1 no matter what kind of layback it is..
  5. Flying or Change-of-Foot One-Position Spin: A flying or change-of-foot spin maximum level being a 2. Skaters are allowed to do more but it will only be credited as a two.
  6. Combination Spin with Change of Foot: A change-of-foot combination spin up to 4.
  7. Step Sequence: Steps sequence in a full pattern (straight-line, serpentine, or circular) not exceeding 30 seconds up to level 3 only.
  8. Choreographic Element: Choreographic step/spiral/moves-in-field sequence. Choreographic spiral or moves-in-the-field must run across the rink in a circular, serpentine or some variation of either pattern consisting of at least three positions for the spiral or three distinct moves for the moves-in-the-field - depth and variety or edges, positions, form, character and musicality will be judged. Choreographic steps do not have to follow any pattern but must include five steps/turns total of any difficulty and direction and will be judged by character, form, musicality, and showcase of quality steps/turns.
Deductions (I want the SP to bring back the do-or-die/high risk-high reward aspect).

On top of 1.0 fall deduction (2.0 for two falls and 3.0 for three falls so on and so forth in my code) and required GOE deductions, the following apply and will be subtracted from the final score (yes in some cases, a deduction might be more than the value of the element but hey, it's the short program):

Jumps
Deductions per element:
  • Omission of element: 5.00 points deducted from TSS.
  • Fall or take off on landing: 4.00
  • Less than required revolution: No credit for element and counted as an omission with appropriate score deductions.
  • Two-foot landing (called by technical panel) - 3.00.
  • Stepping out of landing - 2.50 deduction
  • Underrotation on landing or excessive on-ice rotation on take-off - 2.50
  • Downgrades: May be considered omissions depending on whether the jump in its downgraded form meets the requirement.
  • Wrong edge take off - 2.50
  • Steps not immediately preceding solo jumping pass - 2.00 deduction
  • Touchdown by hand - 3.00 deduction
Jump Combo

  • Omission of element: 5.00 points deducted from TSS.
  • Fall on take off - 4.00 points deducted from TSS.
  • Fall on first jump - 4.00 points
  • Two-foot landing on both jumps - 4.00 points
  • Step out of landing - 1st jump - 3.00 points
  • Fall on second jump - 3.00
  • Two-foot landing either jump (one) - 3.00
  • Less than required revolutions: either jump - No credit for element and counted as an omission with appropriate score deductions.
  • Step Out of second landing - 2.50
  • Wrong Edge take-off - 2.50
  • Underrotation on landing or excessive on-ice rotation on take-off - 2.50.
  • Downgrades: May be considered omissions depending on whether the jump in its downgraded form meets the requirement.
  • Touchdown by hand - 3.00

Repeating solo jump or either combo jump = no credit with above deductions for omissions applying.

Flying or change-of-edge one position Spin/Basic One-Position Spin/Combination Change-of-Foot Spin

  • Omission of element: 5.00 points deducted from TSS.
  • Fall - 4.00 deduction
  • Position in air not attained (for flying entrance) - 2.50
  • Less than required revolutions - No credit. Omission deduction applies.
  • Less than required position - No credit. Omission deduction applies.
  • Incorrect takeoff or landing - 2.50
  • Touchdown of freefoot or hand - 3.00
  • Recentering or excessive traveling - 2.00
  • Stumble during change-of-foot - 2.00
Step Sequence

  • Omission of element: 5.00 points deducted from TSS.
  • Fall - 3.00 points
  • Incorrect Pattern - 2.00
  • Stumble - 2.00 during sequence
  • Overtime - grace period of 1-5 seconds then 0.5 deduction for every second over.
Choreographic Sequence
  • Omission of element: 5.00 points deducted from TSS.
  • Fall - 3.00 points
  • incorrect pattern - 2.00
  • Failing to meet the position or other requirements for the choreographed spiral/moves-in-the-field/step - considered an omission.
  • Stumble - 2.00 during sequence
Maybe I'll fix the deductions or make them multiplied by 50% for jumps and 30% for non-jump elements or something if these are too big of a deduction, but I really want skaters be rewarded for completing clean SPs and to feel it when they fail to perform a clean SP.
 

VGThuy

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41,020
Why no axel type element?
I don't think we need it for the SP. Or rather, I would rather see a toe jumping pass and an edge one, and if a skater has an issue doing a 3/3, they can try to do a 2A/3 for their combo pass, if they want. I'll require one of the jumping passes for the LP to include an axel.
 

once_upon

Better off now than 4 years ago? Have TP now
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30,052
I don't think we need it for the SP. Or rather, I would rather see a toe jumping pass and an edge one, and if a skater has an issue doing a 3/3, they can try to do a 2A/3 for their combo pass, if they want. I'll require one of the jumping passes for the LP to include an axel.
Is that because of the presumed difficulty of an axel and to provide the skaters who have not mastered an axel a fair playing field?

If the short program is technical content and an axel is part of the jumps mastered, why eliminate it?
 

VGThuy

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41,020
Is that because of the presumed difficulty of an axel and to provide the skaters who have not mastered an axel a fair playing field?

If the short program is technical content and an axel is part of the jumps mastered, why eliminate it?
No, I just rather see other jumps attempted. I'm tired of the axel requirement quite honestly. I mean if the axel is singled out, then why not a true lutz on an outside edge or a loop? I'd prefer to see a skater show an edge jump, a toe jump, and a combination. Axels are edge jumps so they can choose to do that if they aren't good at loops or salchows like Kristi Yamaguchi.
 

On My Own

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5,010
I don't think we need it for the SP. Or rather, I would rather see a toe jumping pass and an edge one, and if a skater has an issue doing a 3/3, they can try to do a 2A/3 for their combo pass, if they want. I'll require one of the jumping passes for the LP to include an axel.
I mean requirements are pretty arbitrary. I won't pull "tradition", but the 2A is very much considered a rite of passage for elite skaters, both junior and senior. It's pretty much a basic jump one needs to be able to do, and it makes sense to have a common element (minimum 2Aļ¼‰to test their ability.

LP not requiring an axel makes sense to me, to make it more "free".
 

VGThuy

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41,020
I mean requirements are pretty arbitrary. I won't pull "tradition", but the 2A is very much considered a rite of passage for elite skaters, both junior and senior. It's pretty much a basic jump one needs to be able to do, and it makes sense to have a common element (minimum 2Aļ¼‰to test their ability.
Then keep it for juniors. I already said my piece. It's not like I have any power and will force the skaters this coming season to do my SP requirements. @Marco also did away with the axel requirement, and I liked that proposal. That's where I got the idea from.
 

Aussie Willy

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I mean requirements are pretty arbitrary. I won't pull "tradition", but the 2A is very much considered a rite of passage for elite skaters, both junior and senior. It's pretty much a basic jump one needs to be able to do, and it makes sense to have a common element (minimum 2Aļ¼‰to test their ability.

LP not requiring an axel makes sense to me, to make it more "free".
I absolutely think the axel needs to be included. It is a major stepping stone for the skaters and in competition sorts them out.
 

VGThuy

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41,020
If jumps are being sorted by takeoff, then that's another argument for requiring it: edge, toe and forward-facing.
With three jumping passes and one of them being a combination, then how would you ensure all three are included? Which of the three take offs would you designated for the two solo passes and which for the combination?Anyway, forwards or backwards, jumps are still categorized as edge or toe jumps. For all of you who think an Axel should be included, then Iā€™d like to hear what else you would demand for the SP.
 

On My Own

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5,010
With three jumping passes and one of them being a combination, then how would you ensure all three are included? Which of the three take offs would you designated for the two solo passes and which for the combination?
You don't need to think of anything special, you could just say "SP MUST contain an edge jump (apart from axel), toe jump, and axel". Then we could get SP layouts like:

3A+3T
3Lo
3Lz

or

2A
3S+3T
3Lo

Both these contain one edge jump, one axel, and one toe jump.
 

VGThuy

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41,020
Weā€™re probably going to get the same jump passes weā€™ve been seeing forever but ok; everyone must agree that an Axel is required.
 

On My Own

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I don't think everyone must agree that an axel is required. I was just curious why you didn't think so and wanted to discuss. OK, neither of us needs to change the other's position. I'm ready to see the others speak, and your own LP rules. :)
 

Aussie Willy

Hates both vegemite and peanut butter
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27,871
With three jumping passes and one of them being a combination, then how would you ensure all three are included? Which of the three take offs would you designated for the two solo passes and which for the combination? Anyway, forwards or backwards, jumps are still categorized as edge or toe jumps. For all of you who think an Axel should be included, then Iā€™d like to hear what else you would demand for the SP.
I think that is a really good idea. We want to see versatile skaters.

Yes an axel must be included.
 

VGThuy

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41,020
Would it be overkill if I were to decrease the number of jumping passes in an LP to five with a ā€œchoreographic leap/jump sequenceā€ as an optional ā€œ6thā€ one?
 

Orm Irian

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1,691
How about this for a senior singles technical program? This is actually based on the current FS, but aiming for more technical rigour - e.g. by bringing a bit of the (former) rhythm dance to singles step sequences...

Length: 4 minutes.
Music: Instrumental only, comprising a maximum of three pieces of music by the same composer.
Costumes: None. Black tight-fitting tops, pants, gloves and headbands/sports hijabs only allowed.

Program element requirements
  • 3 x solo jumps, with at least one performed in the first half of the program and at least one in the second half.
  • 2 x two-jump combinations, with at least one performed in the first half of the program and one in the second half.
  • 1 x three-jump combination, which can be performed in the first or the second half of the program at the skaterā€™s discretion.
  • 1 x spin in one position and on one foot (position mandated at start of season), 1 x combination spin with change of foot, 1 x combination spin with flying element, with at least one spin performed in the first half of the program and at least one in the second half.
  • 1 x technical step sequence in a clearly defined pattern, incorporating four specified clusters in a mandated order.
NB The clusters required in the step sequence and their mandatory order are issued at Worlds in the preceding season.

Jumps

The technical program must include at least one toeloop, one salchow, one loop, one flip, one lutz and one axel. Jumps cannot be repeated as solo jumps or as leading jumps in combinations, however, there is no restriction on repetitions of jumps as following jumps in combinations.

Permitted solo jumps
  • Toeloops: double, triple and quadruple.
  • Salchows: double, triple and quadruple.
  • Loops: double, triple and quadruple.
  • Flips: double, triple and quadruple.
  • Lutzes: double, triple and quadruple.
  • Axels: double and triple.
Permitted two-jump combinations

Any combination of permitted quadruple, triple and double jumps, provided that there is no change of edge between the exit of the leading jump and the entry to the following jump.

Permitted three-jump combinations

Any combination of permitted quadruple, triple and double jumps, and Euler jumps, provided there is no change of edge between the exit of the leading jump and the entry to the following jump/s.

NB Jumps in the technical program may not be performed with one or both arms over the head.

Spins

The mandatory position for the spin in one position for each season will be issued at Worlds in the preceding season.

Permitted spin positions
  • Upright
  • Camel
  • Sit
  • Layback

Technical step sequence

Permitted patterns for technical step sequence
  • Straight line
  • Crescent
  • Circular
  • Serpentine
Steps and turns included in technical step sequence clusters
  • brackets
  • counters
  • c-steps (previously choctaws)
  • loops
  • m-steps (previously mohawks)
  • rockers
  • twizzles
Assessment

Assessment of the technical program is divided into individual elements and global skills. The individual elements comprise jumps, spins and steps. The global skills comprise skating skills and transitions.

If a required element in the Technical Program is not completed to requirements (e.g., due to a fall, repetition of a solo/leading jump, failure to complete a combination, change of edge between jumps in a combination, spin not in the mandated position, omission of a spin position in a combination, omission of a cluster in the step sequence or completion of clusters in the wrong order), it will be called as a ā€œnull elementā€ and receive 0 points and 0 GOE.

A penalty of 1.0 points per fall will be deducted from the final individual elements score.
:EVILLE:
 

gkelly

Well-Known Member
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16,442
So if you have a 4-minute technical program stricter requirements than the current free skate, what would you propose for the other program?

I figure the competition structure could be something like one of the following:


Short program more or less as now or with more specific requirements that rotate each year
Well-balanced free skate for 4 minutes (I'll propose some rules to make it a bit freer in a later post)

Separate events for jumps, spins (half ice), and skating skills/music interpretation
Well-balanced free skate

Long technical program
Somewhat shorter "artistic" or "free" program in which program components + GOEs will count for more than base values, although quads will be allowed (but only choreo not leveled steps and spins)

Obviously the details would be different for pairs and especially for dance
 

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