Making an android app to score events ( even the gpf ;) ). Suggestions ?

[Justlooking]

Hi!

I'm making some android app to score skaters during an event. ( For now only on tablets)

You can choose a program from some events. In the future, the events will be automatically added every day.
You can rate by checking bullets or directly by inputting scores.


Here's a first beta version RateTheSkate

For now, it's a beta versions, so there are a few bugs ( which will be corrected these next few days)
- You cannot save/load your scoring on a program yet.
- You cannot change a spin/step/jump to another type yet (like a spin to a step)
- You cannot invalidate an element, etc.
- You cannot yet score dance or pairs.

If you don't see the events to score. Close and open the program.


Do you have any suggestions ? What would you to be added ? I have a few ideas, but I'm curious of what you're thinking.

Edit: To the admin ? I think it goes to the Trashcan and not great skate debate ? How can I move it ?

 

[Justlooking]

I want to make a program that helps you judge.

But I have a problems comprehending everything in Communication No. 2168.

It is said :

In a program containing a Fall or a Serious error the score ten (10) shall not be awarded for any of the
Components.

Do anybody knows what is a serious error ? Is there an official definition ?

 

[gkelly]

From Communication no. 2186 (which updates/replaces 2168; yes it's confusing that the numbers are so similar):

Additional Remarks
Program Components
In a program containing a Fall or a Serious error (error that impacts the integrity / continuity / fluidity of the composition and/or its relation to the music) the score ten (10) shall not be awarded for any of the Components.

In a program containing Falls or Serious errors (errors that impacts the integrity / continuity / fluidity of the composition and/or its relation to the music) the score nine-fifty (9.5) or higher should not be awarded for Skating Skills, Transitions and Composition and the score nine (9.0) or higher should not be awarded for Performance and Interpretation.

GOE evaluation
In case of significant error (e.g. fall, landing on two feet, stepping out of landing, wrong edge (e), downgraded (<<), serious problems on the descent of the lift, serious problems on the catch of the Twist) the starting GOE for the evaluation cannot be higher than +2.

So there is some explanation given for what should be considered serious enough to preclude top PCS, and some examples given of what should cap the starting values of the GOEs, but there is still some room in both for judges' discretion.

 

[Justlooking]

Cool thanks gkelly. I was using Communication 2168 ... Ok the only big difference is with the GOE evaluation. I know what my next update will be

 

[Justlooking]

In case of significant error (e.g. fall, landing on two feet, stepping out of landing, wrong edge (e), downgraded (<<), serious problems on the descent of the lift, serious problems on the catch of the Twist) the starting GOE for the evaluation cannot be higher than +2.

Doesn't really give the meaning of a significant error ( which is different than a serious error), but it seems that all these bullets can have -4 ( or -5)

 

[tony]

I would suggest trying to integrate it to iPhones/Apple as well. There is one program already available there that allows you to input your info data into the programs and then it creates a replica of the ISU Results page and protocols page, but somewhere along the way the GOE scores do not match up with what they should be, so it's really not of use unless they go back and fix it.

As far as these intricacies you are trying to look into- I think the ISU should void out certain GOE's/PCS if the skater does something where those scores shouldn't be allowed- ie. a fall in the program and then skaters still pulling off a few 9.50's or 9.25's, or a GOE being higher than the rulebook would allow. But as of now, the judges are still free to give whatever they want and then they would probably have to explain themselves in the roundtable meeting after the event.

 

[MacMadame]

Interesting that there are already apps for this. I need a project to learn to program an iPhone app natively and was thinking of creating such an app. Guess I’ll go see what is already out there

 

[Justlooking]

I would suggest trying to integrate it to iPhones/Apple as well. There is one program already available there that allows you to input your info data into the programs and then it creates a replica of the ISU Results page and protocols page, but somewhere along the way the GOE scores do not match up with what they should be, so it's really not of use unless they go back and fix it.

I plan to publish it on ipone/apple once the basic features are polished and if I think that there are enough interest out there. I think the access to the apple store is more than 100$ a year. I will maybe have to ad ads or have to sell it, still have to think about his

As far as these intricacies you are trying to look into- I think the ISU should void out certain GOE's/PCS if the skater does something where those scores shouldn't be allowed- ie. a fall in the program and then skaters still pulling off a few 9.50's or 9.25's, or a GOE being higher than the rulebook would allow. But

I want to integrate to add some some learning tips. Like if you put 10 and there is a fall, there would a pop up which says " You shouldn't do that because of rule nbr xxx" I think these are the kind of rules that fans don't really know. ( and maybe judges )

 

[Justlooking]

Interesting that there are already apps for this. I need a project to learn to program an iPhone app natively and was thinking of creating such an app. Guess I’ll go see what is already out there

For now I've found only a few apps :
on ios
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/skater-rater/id893386761?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sk8-score/id354622313
on android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fssquad.figureskatingjudge

Only tested the one on android and looked at the screenshots.

 

[tony]

Neither of the iTunes Store apps are updated anymore. The one that is closest to great is this:
FS Calculator: Season 2018-19 by Cheng Jia
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fs-calculator-season-2018-19/id1329859767?mt=8

It’s really cool how you add skaters to competitions and the results page and protocol page are exactly like the ISU pages, but again, with the scoring issue, it’s not really of value at this point and hasn’t been updated since its release.

 

[Justlooking]

Neither of the iTunes Store apps are updated anymore. The one that is closest to great is this:
FS Calculator: Season 2018-19 by Cheng Jia
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fs-calculator-season-2018-19/id1329859767?mt=8

It’s really cool how you add skaters to competitions and the results page and protocol page are exactly like the ISU pages, but again, with the scoring issue, it’s not really of value at this point and hasn’t been updated since its release.

Wow ! This one has some awesome ideas and that just from the screenshots.. Kind of sad they have some scoring issues. Maybe they didn't bother to correct them, because it doesn't have so much success ?
Or maybe it is difficult to find. In fact I noticed they didn't put the word "figure" or "skating" in the descriptions, that must be why I didn't find it.

 

[gkelly]

I want to integrate to add some some learning tips. Like if you put 10 and there is a fall, there would a pop up which says " You shouldn't do that because of rule nbr xxx" I think these are the kind of rules that fans don't really know. ( and maybe judges )

This is a new rule. It is not in the rulebook and does not have a number.

It's listed only in the Communication 2186 and should probably be considered more of a guideline than a rule.

Technical panels call falls, which get fall deductions. Some errors are borderline as to whether they meet the definition of a fall, but in that case the tech panel will review it on video (as I understand) and make an official determination whether to call it or not.

So it would be possible to program the judges' computers, or an app for fans, to disable PCS of 10 if there is a called fall.

However, there is no official determination of whether a non-fall error is "serious" and "impacts the integrity / continuity / fluidity of the composition and/or its relation to the music." That can depend on exactly how the skater executes the movement on that particular occasion, and different judges, or fans, might have different evaluations of whether/how much it impacted the interity/continuity/fluidity of the performance.

E.g., some step outs from jump landings are very disruptive, and some are so well integrated it's not entirely clear they weren't intentional.

As for the distinction between "significant errors" that limit the maximum GOE and "serious errors" that impact the integrity/continuity/fluidity, sometimes they are the same thing and sometimes not.

A two-foot landing might be unnoticeable to casual fans and not disruptive at all, but from a technical point of view it's bad mistake, especially if accompanied by significant underrotation. A jump that pitches forward in the upper body on the landing while remaining on one foot would be much more obvious to casual viewers and probably disruptive from an integrity/continuity/fluidity point of view, but from a technical point of view it's not as serious a mistake.

As written, this restriction is not something that can practically be enforced for errors other than called falls.

 

[Justlooking]

Thanks gkelly.
I don't plan to disable the PCS for 10, only to have to have a kind of popup like
( "Are you sure you wish to put 10 even if t's against the guidelines ? "). I would like long term to have all the guidelines integrated in the program so that you can understand how to judge, but without being forced to judge a certain way.

Did some update on my program
- now all GPs are accessible for singles.
- you can save/ load some program
- all scores should be correct for the singles ( previously the goe was wrong for combinations)
- now you can mark deductions
- some other things

Still do do
- pairs and dance
- making the app work offline
- improve the UI
- make a UI only for phones
- etc ...

Hopefully I want to have my first non beta version for the Europeans.

If anybody has a suggestions, don't hesitate.

 

[gkelly]

So the app user inputs GOEs and PCS as if they're judging?

Where do the tech calls come from?

 

[Justlooking]

I convert all isu pdf sheets to some files like this one https://github.com/Shallowmallow/FS_protocols/blob/master/season1819/gpf1819_Ladies_SP_Scores

and the app looks for these type of file on my website. So it has all the protocols.
For now, I can easily convert results and planned sheet layouts from the isu.
For next season, I'll would love to add sheets for the US or russia or other countries local competitions. I think I would be cool.

 

[Justlooking]

Hmm, does anybody know what's the communication nbr for the description of programs (type of jumps in the sp, ...)

I've found this which is for novice
https://www.isu.org/communications/17293-isu-communication-2172/file but have yet to find it for seniors or juniors .

It would be interesting to have the app automatically cheking the validity of an fs program.


PS : there seems to be not so much interest in this type of program. I've had less than 10 downloads. Is it because it doesn't interest people or because they don't want to try it when it still a work in progress ? Or because, you would prefer some web program ? I'm kind of puzzled.

 

[tony]

PS : there seems to be not so much interest in this type of program. I've had less than 10 downloads. Is it because it doesn't interest people or because they don't want to try it when it still a work in progress ? Or because, you would prefer some web program ? I'm kind of puzzled.

Make it a web application and/or an iPhone app and I would be all over it. I have a feeling the majority of users on this board are also Mac-based.

 

[alchemy void]

PS : there seems to be not so much interest in this type of program. I've had less than 10 downloads. Is it because it doesn't interest people or because they don't want to try it when it still a work in progress ? Or because, you would prefer some web program ? I'm kind of puzzled.

I would download the iPhone app in a second. I'm planning on going over to Android, but not until I get another year out of my 6S.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

Maybe just make this as a web app that has a good mobile-first interface and let people sign up for it there?

 

[gkelly]

Hmm, does anybody know what's the communication nbr for the description of programs (type of jumps in the sp, ...)

I've found this which is for novice
https://www.isu.org/communications/17293-isu-communication-2172/file but have yet to find it for seniors or juniors .

They're in the ISU rulebook, Rules 611 and 612 for singles, 620 and 621 for pairs:
https://isu.org/inside-single-pair-skating-ice-dance/figure-skating-rules/regulations-rules-fs/file

Also Rules 709.2 and 710.2 for ice dance.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=84109
As an alternative, see the singles and pairs short program elements and free skate elements listed on this USFS page. The lower levels are US specific, but junior and senior follow the ISU rules completely.

Ice dance page: https://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=84110

 

[Justlooking]

Thanks for your answers. I was getting discouraged
For iOS, it want to have a perfect workable version before submitting to there store. (the process is more more complex and I 've never publish an app on the app store)
But maybe I could try to have a web version. Hmm, I'll look into it.


Thans gkelly. You're so great to be able to find all these rules. I knew where to find all the communications, but couldn't find the answer.

 

[Rock2]

Make it a web application and/or an iPhone app and I would be all over it. I have a feeling the majority of users on this board are also Mac-based.

Was just going to say this. Web apps are cheaper to build you don't have to bother with Google Play or iTunes. Also lowers the barriers for people to use it as you don't have to install etc. It's URL based but functions like an app. Plus if you build using REACT the code migrates to iOS and Android easily if you want to go that route.

Only downside with it not being native is that you need to be on data/WiFi to use it. But given what your app is, you'll need to be on data anyway to use it as a native app.

I'm building a career development/networking app at the moment and going the web app route. Saving me insane amounts of $$.

 

[Justlooking]

Was just going to say this. Web apps are cheaper to build you don't have to bother with Google Play or iTunes. Also lowers the barriers for people to use it as you don't have to install etc. It's URL based but functions like an app. Plus if you build using REACT the code migrates to iOS and Android easily if you want to go that route.

Only downside with it not being native is that you need to be on data/WiFi to use it. But given what your app is, you'll need to be on data anyway to use it as a native app.

I'm building a career development/networking app at the moment and going the web app route. Saving me insane amounts of $$.

In fact, I'm using haxe (not very famous) which is a transpiler which make it incredibly easy to migrate to IOS and Android , Javascript ( and desktops).

I don't know why I thought about tablets first. I think it was because I was building apps for android at the time and was kind of envisioning an app where you could bring to the ice rink and maybe score your own programs.

But it 's true with the web app it's kind easier to share the scoring a use did on forums. I think I'll put my app on the web in a few weeks.

PS : will update my app tonight, it has now pair scoring.
Next thing to do :
- dance : it will take more time than previously thought, it works so differently than other disciplines. Didn't know it before reading the rules ^^
- program validator which will check invalid elements, etc ..
- some better exports.

 

[Justlooking]

Here's a link of the web version
Rate The Skate web version

The web version doesn't adapt to the size of screen yet but it is planned to be

Dance is half done. Still need to do deductions, and bullets and improve the PCS system.

 

[Justlooking]

I have few questions. I want to improve the bullet selection.
If I select the positive bullet "Reflects nuances in the music",
Logically I won't select "Element does not reflect character of the chosen music/rhythm"
There are a few obvious ones like this

For others , I'm not sure

For singles:

JUMP
"steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry" vs "Long preparation"
" very good body position from take-off to landing" vs touch downs and falls
good controlled, clear position(s) (inc. height and air/landing position in flying spin) vs "Incorrect take-off or landing in a flying spin"

STEPS
"good clarity and precision" vs "Inability to clearly demonstrate the sequence"